So the bottom line is, even with all this spiffy new hardware, the new 12-core model is not even 18% faster (29721 vs. 25208) than what is an essentially an upgraded Mid-2010 Mac Pro (a.k.a. "Mid-2012") model?
You should complain to Intel.
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New 12-Core Mac Pro Once Again Shows Up in Benchmarks
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You should complain to Intel.
This is perhaps the silliest definition of a word I have ever seen. I realize that people who use the term "hater" seriously tend not to be particularly educated or informed, but this takes the cake.
A source for this.. completely unbelievable claim?
They pretty clearly list the two available GPU options. http://www.apple.com/mac-pro/specs/
They also list the expansion ports.... none of which are PCIe.
Almost
We'll have to agree to disagree then and that's fine. You have proved it, thanks.
So the bottom line is, even with all this spiffy new hardware, the new 12-core model is not even 18% faster (29721 vs. 25208) than what is an essentially an upgraded Mid-2010 Mac Pro (a.k.a. "Mid-2012") model?
You've got nice, standard pci-e slots to play with
- I'd like to think that after release and with a bit of jiggery-pokery by some clever folks (and a new psu), you'll be able to slot one or two amd 280x/290(x) in there and for an exponentially cheaper price, get a much much faster number cruncher.Well, I for one would like to see the one headed "Apple begins accepting and shipping Mac Pro 2013 orders"
Ouch. Now, I have a real dilemma. MacPro or iPad Mini retina for Xmas? I can't choose.
I can agree that the price is significant for what you're getting, but for people who can utilise every core it's still going to be a big improvement.
However, if OpenCL adoption grows then the graphics cards are really going to show how forward thinking Apple are, as you will essentially have three, very powerful processors at your disposal.
In some ways the 12-core processor is almost a legacy option, as most apps that need that kind of computing power will most likely run better on the two GPUs, but of course we have to wait for that to happen, and it may not happen at all for this first generation of the new Mac Pro.
Still, I'm excited about this machine; before you really judge its performance we really need to some kind of OpenCL benchmarks that can show the total compute power of the entire machine. But to put it another way; Apple's "stupidity in the graphics card department" is only that if all you can use them for is graphics, but that's not all a GPU is anymore, it's a hugely parallel computation unit.
While I'll grant you that OpenCL is great for certain applications, it's implementation in audio/DAW remains to be seen. While OpenCL can do nothing to directly affect latency, it could be extremely useful for taming plugins. Of course, makers of DSP-accelerator cards will view it as a threat.
Unfortunately, many plugin makers out there are veeeeeeerrrrrryyyyyyy slow to update their plugs. Hell, there are still plenty of plugins out there that still won't run 64-bit native, and some of the ones that are took a LONG time to get there. So if developer apathy going from 32 to 64-bit is any indication, I wouldn't hold out much hope for OpenCL in professional audio, unless there is some sort of abstraction layer that can be built within the DAW itself and handle co-processing of plugs in a vendor-neutral type situation.
Well to be fair on this site there are an awful lot of paid trolls on here who get paid 5c per negative post. And they get paid more per thumbs up.
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Well if that's the case then some enterprising company should get in there and clean up and make 64bit and OpenCL audio plugins. But given the minuscule bandwidth of Audio compared to Video it probably doesn't matter? Surely any modern CPU can easily handles scores of layers of uncompressed audio?
So the bottom line is, even with all this spiffy new hardware, the new 12-core model is not even 18% faster (29721 vs. 25208) than what is an essentially an upgraded Mid-2010 Mac Pro (a.k.a. "Mid-2012") model?
Well off you go and design a chip then... That's all that's available
A PC with the same chip will have same scores - or lower I suspect. We are under the constraints of Moore's law here. But where that was always Processor speeds double every 2 years in the past... we a re now looking at Doubling every 3 years... but power consumption is getting a lot better.
But these are fairly simple burn tests on the CPU / Ram. They are not taking into account the GPU / SSD-Pci or the overall throughput.
They will be an indication of say 3d render times and Video Compression. But not in day to day use. Copying files opening projects etc
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Well off you go and design a chip then... That's all that's available
We are under the constraints of Moore's law here. But where that was always Processor speeds double every 2 years in the past... we a re now looking at Doubling every 3 years... but power consumption is getting a lot better.
But these are fairly simple burn tests on the CPU / Ram. They are not taking into account the GPU / SSD-Pci or the overall throughput.
They will be an indication of say 3d render times and Video Compression. But not in day to day use. Copying files opening projects etc
I'm afraid in this case the argument is very real. So many people seem to be missing the point that the point that the 2012 mac pro was 12 core, but also dual processor, having two physical chips, whereas the new model only has one.
So it is possible to have a much more powerful machine, just that Apple chose not to. We could have had a 2 x 8 core model, giving 16 cores overall. I haven't checked but I imagine a 2 x 12 core set up is also possible with xeon chips.
In a high end machine I want the best that is possible and multi processor setups would give that.
Personally I also worry where all of my expansion cards are going. All over my desk by the looks of it! Someone needs to design a little external dock that peripheral manufacturers can build parts to a certain size to fit. A bit like the stand for Lacie D2 drives.
The GPUs - D300 equate to W7000 which are $600 each approx so $1200 and the CPU is about
The CPUs are
$294 - 4core
$583 - 6 Core
$2614 - 12 core
http://architosh.com/2013/10/the-mac-pro-so-whats-a-d300-d500-and-d700-anyway-we-have-answers/
Thunderbolt 2 can transmit PCIe Along with Ethernet, video audio and other protocols.
I was waiting for the New updated Mac Pro some 2 years ago, now using the new Macbook Pro and two thunderbolt screens. Just don't need anything desktop wise any longer. I use Adobe After effects, FCP and Motion, so you would think the speed would be important. The thing is, the speed on this new MacBook Pro with thunderbolt 2 is more than adequate for what I use the apps for. My clients just wouldn't see any difference a few seconds make in rendering, and now I cant justify spending the amount that's rumoured for the updated Mac Pro.
Apple you will one day wake up that Pros need things updated quicker than you seem to have us believe. This day will be when your obsession with consumer goods goes south and you then come back running to the people who stood by you in the beginning.
Just for you here is some fresh coffee.. Smell it?
Apple you will one day wake up that Pros need things updated quicker than you seem to have us believe. This day will be when your obsession with consumer goods goes south and you then come back running to the people who stood by you in the beginning.
Just for you here is some fresh coffee.. Smell it?
Sorry but I just had to chime in here.
He gave an example completely relatable to computer benchmarks. You know, because he was actually comparing a computer benchmark to real world computer use...
You were comparing some battery life benchmarks. Apples to oranges man. The fact that your battery benchmarks don't give useful information to the end user doesn't mean that these computer benchmarks also wouldn't.
Bottom line is, if you have computer X that benchmarks at a certain value and compare it to computer Y that benchmarks at another value, you can get some sort of idea of how the performance between the two models will compare. Of course if you have no computers and you just look at a benchmark score to try and figure out what the score means, comparisons mean nothing because there is no baseline (the "old" computer) for the end user to compare it to.
OK. I just posted the prices of the Chips above and Whilst that of course is probably possible. You will/can spec a dual 12 Core With Enough Ram and a couple of decent Cards and it would cost you $20,000+
The benefits of dual CPU is overstated. The overhead and heat is really quite high. and pretty power inefficient. The speed is exponential the more cores the less over all speed per core.
I suspect the 12 Cores will be very expensive as it is and if they Did produce one and who's to say they won't in the future - I imagine building a dual motherboard into this would be technically challenging but may happen. It's entirely possible it could come out in 6 months... The original 12-core came out on it's own as I recall.
As for PCIe cards... what ones do you actually use? I am just interested to know what people actually need. The Red rocket card is one but that is not actually needed as this can shift 4K quite happily it seems.
More expansion boxes will come - perhaps even apple will come out with one. I've already run a 10m corning Thunderbolt cable to my garage. Storage and noise out there please
cool look but not practical
the benefit for having a Mac Pro is its expandability, the new design has made it very limited. It certainly has a cool look but when you hook multiple external hard drives with entangled cables all around on its side, it defeat the whole purpose. Most computing intensive users do not need two graphic card, and for a few who tap into GPU power by running a CUDA based software, FirePro is useless.
the benefit for having a Mac Pro is its expandability, the new design has made it very limited. It certainly has a cool look but when you hook multiple external hard drives with entangled cables all around on its side, it defeat the whole purpose. Most computing intensive users do not need two graphic card, and for a few who tap into GPU power by running a CUDA based software, FirePro is useless.
Geeze, if you don't need GPU power put the D300's in the 12 core or 8 core or whatever CPU suits you. That is basically a R270, and is probably $400 on your multi-thousand dollar BOM.
I hate it when I pay $7700 and get $1800's in CPU, $6200 in GPU's, and another $1000 in ram and ssd.
Also people saying they only use Photoshop, and After effects and don't need a GFX card. You clearly aren't paying attention. Adobe publicly said it was all in with OpenCL support 9 months ago. And after effects has been using CUDA for years.
Also 2008 was the best value release for the MP I though, so apparently if it doesn't beat the most affordable release in mac pro history its a ripoff.
I hate it when I pay $7700 and get $1800's in CPU, $6200 in GPU's, and another $1000 in ram and ssd.
Also people saying they only use Photoshop, and After effects and don't need a GFX card. You clearly aren't paying attention. Adobe publicly said it was all in with OpenCL support 9 months ago. And after effects has been using CUDA for years.
Also 2008 was the best value release for the MP I though, so apparently if it doesn't beat the most affordable release in mac pro history its a ripoff.
One thing I noticed is that the older gen has 3GHz processors while the new one has 2.7GHz.
I'm not sure how the benchmark work, but if it is only CPU oriented and maybe memory, that would explain it. But there is much more to CPU in a computer.
Also, modern GPU can be used to do some processing using OpenCL and/or GCD (not sure which does what), which might have benefits for a sound engineer as well.
Like everything, buyers have some choices... An iMac might be more than enough for a sound engineer. The 12-core Mac Pro is not for everyone, but for those that need it, it is there.
And there is always the Hackintosh route...
My 0.00 cents (in Canada we don't use pennies anymore. So 2 cents would be rounded to 0
).
I'll be the devil's advocate here:
You hate being called a fanboy when you say you love your apple gear, don't you?
Well, calling someone a hater is the inverse thing to do when someone is critical of Apple.
If someone has a negative opinion on some news or rumor that doesn't necessarily make them a hater.
Just for the sake of argument...
I kind of agree.
I hope they don't limit the BTO options so that I can not order a nMP with 12 core cpu and minimum video cards.
I think GPGPU is great for some kinds of work, but it's not applicable in my line of work.
Though if the price difference is not too great I may go for the middle option. Just in case I want to fire up a game at some point.