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New 2016 MBP's – Why didn't Apple leave the function keys and add touch bar below it?

sparkie7

sparkie7

macrumors 68030
Original poster
Oct 17, 2008
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I mean there's space to add the touch bar without getting rid of the function keys so you can still directly adjust volume and brightness with one press. And the touch bar is more app specific. The pad is so large in comparison that there's plenty of space to accommodate another row - especially on the 15"...

Get best of both worlds..
 
I think that maybe having kept the function keys and then adding the touch bar would require more reach in order to use the toucher, and apple did not more to further inconvenience their users.

I personally don't mind the touch bar and it provides some interesting interactions. However if there was an additional row of keys under it , i would have a harder time using it.
 
Sources telling me Tim Cook wants to have a touch keyboard next year. The function bar was the first test
 
therealseebs said:
This is why, in a brand new MacOS install on the new model, MacOS still has default core MacOS functionality bound to function keys.
Click to expand...
What?

edit - If you're pointing out why macOS still has code for Fn keys... well the vast majority of Mac users still have computers without a Touch Bar. Apple isn't going to remove the code so those all break. But, it's clear they find the Fn keys to be outdated and that something like the Touch Bar is better going forward.
 
Based on demands I suppose, you spend most of your time switching between the trackpad and the keyboard, and occasionally you might want a functionality on the touch bar. Putting it between the trackpad and keyboard making it a distraction.
 
deadworlds said:
I think that maybe having kept the function keys and then adding the touch bar would require more reach in order to use the toucher.
Click to expand...

I said the touch bar should be positioned below the function keys - which would make it closer and ergonomically easier to reach :D
 
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xmonkey said:
What?
Click to expand...

Out of the box, brand new 2016 MBP, went and looked in preferences, and whaddya know, some functions are still bound to function keys as-shipped. No migration assistant or anything, this isn't my settings, it's how Apple configures the machine.

The point being that your theory that Apple doesn't want users to use function keys makes no sense; if they didn't want users to use function keys, they would presumably not have function keys as preset key bindings.

That, and I don't think it would make sense even if they had changed that. Why would Apple have an opinion on whether or not people use function keys? How does that make any more sense than Apple not wanting users to use number keys, or caps lock, or hyphens?
 
sparkie7 said:
I said the touch bar should be positioned below the function keys - which would make it closer and ergonomically easier to reach :D
Click to expand...

Apologies, I should have carefully read your post, rather than skimmed it. But maybe the same would apply if you had to keep reaching over the touch bar to use the function keys?
 
sparkie7 said:
I mean there's space to add the touch bar without getting rid of the function keys so you can still directly adjust volume and brightness with one press. And the touch bar is more app specific. The pad is so large in comparison that there's plenty of space to accommodate another row - especially on the 15"...

Get best of both worlds..
Click to expand...

Courage? No...really. I really do believe this is their whole "change the world" thing. Most people don't use function keys. Ironically.. PROS do. Programmers, unix guys, etc. People who want to buy a MBP for functionality as well as form.
 
therealseebs said:
Out of the box, brand new 2016 MBP, went and looked in preferences, and whaddya know, some functions are still bound to function keys as-shipped. No migration assistant or anything, this isn't my settings, it's how Apple configures the machine.

The point being that your theory that Apple doesn't want users to use function keys makes no sense; if they didn't want users to use function keys, they would presumably not have function keys as preset key bindings.

That, and I don't think it would make sense even if they had changed that. Why would Apple have an opinion on whether or not people use function keys? How does that make any more sense than Apple not wanting users to use number keys, or caps lock, or hyphens?
Click to expand...
My point is Apple doesn't think Fn keys are useful enough to keep around and that the Touch Bar is better.

Number keys? Hyphens? Not even the same thing at all.
 
budfoot said:
Courage? No...really. I really do believe this is their whole "change the world" thing. Most people don't use function keys. Ironically.. PROS do. Programmers, unix guys, etc. People who want to buy a MBP for functionality as well as form.
Click to expand...

I'm not actually convinced that "most people" don't use function keys. I'd believe that most people don't use them all that often.

But do you know how often the touch bar showed anything I actually had any conceivable reason to want to do that wasn't a function key? That would be "never". I did see an actual app-specific feature. I can now use the touchbar to change the background color of a terminal window! Yes, changing the background color of a terminal window, that commonplace daily task. Why, I suspect most people change the background color of a terminal window at least fifty, sixty, times a day. Certainly no one would ever go into preferences, set it the way they like it, and never think about it again.
 
xmonkey said:
My point is Apple doesn't think Fn keys are useful enough to keep around and that the Touch Bar is better.

Number keys? Hyphens? Not even the same thing at all.
Click to expand...

I think he meant put it between the FN keys and the number keys. Or hell, put it above the FN keys... anyone seen how much space we have with the giant trackpad?

I hit esc @50 times a day. I don't want to LOOK to hit escape. I know by keyboard exactly where it is.
 
therealseebs said:
I'm not actually convinced that "most people" don't use function keys. I'd believe that most people don't use them all that often.

But do you know how often the touch bar showed anything I actually had any conceivable reason to want to do that wasn't a function key? That would be "never". I did see an actual app-specific feature. I can now use the touchbar to change the background color of a terminal window! Yes, changing the background color of a terminal window, that commonplace daily task. Why, I suspect most people change the background color of a terminal window at least fifty, sixty, times a day. Certainly no one would ever go into preferences, set it the way they like it, and never think about it again.
Click to expand...


Try this with a touchbar. Fire up iTunes. Fire up Word. Fire up Mail. Play music in iTunes. Start typing an email. Have your phone ring.

TURN DOWN or PAUSE the music.

How many taps did that take? Thats why the TB is useless. It adds steps to everyday tasks.
 
therealseebs said:
If I want an iPad, I know where to find it.
Click to expand...
Huh? So adding a Touch Bar above a keyboard makes it an iPad now?

Look, it's pretty simple, watch the keynote if you want to understand why they got rid of the Fn keys.

budfoot said:
I think he meant put it between the FN keys and the number keys. Or hell, put it above the FN keys... anyone seen how much space we have with the giant trackpad?

I hit esc @50 times a day. I don't want to LOOK to hit escape. I know by keyboard exactly where it is.
Click to expand...
I know what the OP meant. They didn't do this for the same reason there's only USB-C ports.
 
xmonkey said:
Huh? So adding a Touch Bar above a keyboard makes it an iPad now?

Look, it's pretty simple, watch the keynote if you want to understand why they got rid of the Fn keys.


I know what the OP meant. They didn't do this for the same reason there's only USB-C ports.
Click to expand...


So, we're back to .... courage?
 
I don't use Function keys at all. But I sure as hell use the esc, brightness (F1, F2), volume (F10-F12), widget manager (F4), and Mission control (F3) keys – all the time!
 
"Why didn't Apple leave the function keys and add touch bar below it?"

I guess for the same (unknown) reason they didn't leave USB3 ports and add USB-C ports alongside them.
 
dk808 said:
Sources telling me Tim Cook wants to have a touch keyboard next year. The function bar was the first test
Click to expand...


He better not. I played with the Yoga Book last week, and it's a funky little beast and incredible for the price in the $500 range... but a pleasant typing experience, it is not.

yoga-book_11-680x441.jpg
 
mac_in_tosh said:
"Why didn't Apple leave the function keys and add touch bar below it?"

I guess for the same (unknown) reason they didn't leave USB3 ports and add USB-C ports alongside them.
Click to expand...

the ports are a 'thinness" and physical space issue. Very different to the keyboard area where there is plenty of space..
 
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