New Apple TV 4K is showing 4K content, just mislabeling it as HD in some apps' "swipe-down" menu

[Bruins96]

I've been seeing reports around the interwebs that "the new Apple TV 4K is only giving me HD (2K) video for 4K shows". The proof being cited is often via the "swipe-down" menu while in an app like Netflix or Showtime Anytime that supports the Info section. In the Info section it usually contains the program's name, and an icon beside it that should say HD or 4K. Note that not all apps support that section, my HBO Max and Disney+ app do not have the Info section when you use the swipe-down menu, just Audio and Subtitles.

So I decided to test this out, and I took some pics for proof. I downloaded XCode on my Mac and paired it to the ATV4K v2. I then enabled the Developer HUD on the ATV (you can easily google instructions on how to do this). The HUD gives you the actual stream data. What you're looking for is the "natural-size" value, not the "resolution" value, because if you have your ATV set to upscale everything to 4K the resolution value will always be 3840x2160. The "natural-size" will tell you what the incoming resolution is from the streaming service.

Here is the problem in a nutshell. Below is the swipe down Info section for Lucifer S5E1 on Netflix, which should be a 4K episode.

Note how it says "HD" right beside 51 min, as opposed to 4K. This is what is making people think they're only being delivered HD content.

However if you look at the HUD data (I just exited out of the swipe-down menu), you see this:

Note natural-size value of 3840x2160. That's 4K. And if you look at the avg and peak bit rate, it's 17Mbps and 25Mbps which is definitely 4K range (Netflix HD bit rate is mostly in the single digits, like 3-7Mbps).

And just to show that the natural-size isn't just lying to us, here's S1E1 of Lucifer, which was not a 4K episode:

Note how natural-size is 1920x1080 and the avg bit rate is 3.88Mbps

Here's the HUD for Away, on Netflix, to again show it not only shows 4K, but also supports Dolby Vision (says it up top "video-range: DolbyVision 5")


And here's Wonder Woman 84 on HBO Max, to again prove it's showing 4K Dolby Vision


Hopefully Apple will fix the labeling issue. I think they own the swipe-down menu since it cuts across all apps, it is part of tvOS, so I think the fault is theirs to find and fix. Because they're starting to take criticism from those believing they're only seeing an HD signal when in fact they're getting the 4K (assuming their bandwidth is sufficient and they're subscribing to the appropriate tier of service) but the swipe-down is just mislabeling it as HD.

 

[SanJoseEd]

That's a great report Bruins96. I'm one of the peeps who has commented about this in the interwebs (and within Macrumors) you refer to. I've seen what you've posted explained in a similar fashion, and it makes sense. Unfortunately (fortunately for viewing pleasure), my 4K television produces such an extraordinary image, I truly can't tell in many cases whether I'm looking at 4K or HD; even streaming HD from a local ethernet AppleTV video collection, the sharpness / definition / resolution is undeniable (LG OLED). So, that said, if I can't see '4K' or 'UHD' in the pull-down, and only see 'HD', although apparently a bad label, it's still a classic Apple bummer for those of us who scrimp to pay Netflix and other streamers for their higher streaming tier.

I've dealt with Apple on the phone over this, albeit several days ago now, and they were in denial - sent me a replacement 2021 ATV4K, which I am now reluctant to unpack if it's not going to change the label issue; and it won't if this label thing is in fact the problem.

So I share Bruins96's hope that Apple will get off its ass and push out a software or firmware fix (14.7 beta by the way doesn't fix this). Apple should eat some more crow and fix the dang thing. No?

 

[Bruins96]

I guess I'm the opposite in that I didn't even ever look at that swipe-down info label before. I do think that they should fix the mislabeling.

But until I read about the problem on this and other places, it just looked like great 4K content, approaching the many 4K discs I own (I could easily discern a streamed HD signal over my 4K disc every time, what I was seeing from ATV4K v2 is nearly indistinguishable in quality).

I get that you want to make sure you're getting what you paid for, and if you own a Mac, you can do it pretty easily. The "hardest" part is the Xcode install, in that it's 11GB and took about a half hour to complete. Pairing to your ATV takes less than a minute, enabling the HUD even less time than that, and then you have your piece of mind via the actual stream data that you're getting what you paid for.

In fact I'd rather rely on the HUD data than the swipe down menu info, which is input by humans who can make a mistake.

 

[SanJoseEd]

See how this theory fits:

Consider that . . .

These new 2021 ATV4K's are actually working perfectly.

These new 2021 ATV4K's (the 64GB ones anyway) have a model number of A2169

The 1st gen ATV4K's have a model number of A1842

The predecessor ATV HD has a model number of A1625

The Apple authored code that comprises the ATV's on-screen user interface (you know, the code that produces the pull-down HUD where that dang 'HD' keeps showing up), when launched, seeks the model number of the ATV device currently online. Now, I don't know where this HUD associated code is . . . embedded within the ATV's firmware or in the cloud . . . or . . . ?

When this query encounters a previously unknown, i.e. NEW, model number, such as A2169, it's error management falls back and reports it as 'HD' for lack of a proper API update to recognize A2169.

Therefore, the Apple ATV user interface code needs to be updated in order to properly 'see' that A2169 is an ATV4K and not an erroneous unknown model number that defaults to 'HD'.

Someone test this logic -- make sense or not?

 

[mhmercer]

See how this theory fits:

Consider that . . .

These new 2021 ATV4K's are actually working perfectly.

These new 2021 ATV4K's (the 64GB ones anyway) have a model number of A2169

The 1st gen ATV4K's have a model number of A1842

The predecessor ATV HD has a model number of A1625

The Apple authored code that comprises the ATV's on-screen user interface (you know, the code that produces the pull-down HUD where that dang 'HD' keeps showing up), when launched, seeks the model number of the ATV device currently online. Now, I don't know where this HUD associated code is . . . embedded within the ATV's firmware or in the cloud . . . or . . . ?

When this query encounters a previously unknown, i.e. NEW, model number, such as A2169, it's error management falls back and reports it as 'HD' for lack of a proper API update to recognize A2169.

Therefore, the Apple ATV user interface code needs to be updated in order to properly 'see' that A2169 is an ATV4K and not an erroneous unknown model number that defaults to 'HD'.

Someone test this logic -- make sense or not?

That was my thought. IF ((nameOfdevice = A1842), 4KHDR, ELSE 2KSDR); no accounting for A2169.

 

[Bruins96]

There could definitely be some validity to that theory. I installed Amazon Prime, which is another service that supports the swipe-down menu Info option, and the 2-3 4K shows I've tested on it still only say HD in the swipe-down menu.

So for all three apps that support that Info tab, I have found zero that actually display the 4K label properly beside the program title, while being able to confirm via the HUD that I'm getting 4K for all of the tested titles.

Given how I have not been able to find a single one with a properly displaying 4K label, I think it may be universal. Granted I've only tested maybe 10 titles. I'll update if I happen to come across a properly labeled one.

 

[Banglazed]

It is a labeling issue but I believe this is app related where it might not recognize the new Apple TV. The only correct 4K label applies to Apple TV+ contents.

Even viewing the Ultra HD 4K section on Netflix, everything is label HD instead.

 

[JasonHB]

It is a labeling issue but I believe this is app related where it might not recognize the new Apple TV. The only correct 4K label applies to Apple TV+ contents.

Even viewing the Ultra HD 4K section on Netflix, everything is label HD instead.

Given that Apples own Movies section displays HD in the drop down and not 4K, not sure it is app related.

Jason

 

[Randolphchurchill]

I've been seeing reports around the interwebs that "the new Apple TV 4K is only giving me HD (2K) video for 4K shows". The proof being cited is often via the "swipe-down" menu while in an app like Netflix or Showtime Anytime that supports the Info section. In the Info section it usually contains the program's name, and an icon beside it that should say HD or 4K. Note that not all apps support that section, my HBO Max and Disney+ app do not have the Info section when you use the swipe-down menu, just Audio and Subtitles.

So I decided to test this out, and I took some pics for proof. I downloaded XCode on my Mac and paired it to the ATV4K v2. I then enabled the Developer HUD on the ATV (you can easily google instructions on how to do this). The HUD gives you the actual stream data. What you're looking for is the "natural-size" value, not the "resolution" value, because if you have your ATV set to upscale everything to 4K the resolution value will always be 3840x2160. The "natural-size" will tell you what the incoming resolution is from the streaming service.

Here is the problem in a nutshell. Below is the swipe down Info section for Lucifer S5E1 on Netflix, which should be a 4K episode.
View attachment 1782785
Note how it says "HD" right beside 51 min, as opposed to 4K. This is what is making people think they're only being delivered HD content.

However if you look at the HUD data (I just exited out of the swipe-down menu), you see this:
View attachment 1782786
Note natural-size value of 3840x2160. That's 4K. And if you look at the avg and peak bit rate, it's 17Mbps and 25Mbps which is definitely 4K range (Netflix HD bit rate is mostly in the single digits, like 3-7Mbps).

And just to show that the natural-size isn't just lying to us, here's S1E1 of Lucifer, which was not a 4K episode:
View attachment 1782788
Note how natural-size is 1920x1080 and the avg bit rate is 3.88Mbps

Here's the HUD for Away, on Netflix, to again show it not only shows 4K, but also supports Dolby Vision (says it up top "video-range: DolbyVision 5")
View attachment 1782789

And here's Wonder Woman 84 on HBO Max, to again prove it's showing 4K Dolby Vision
View attachment 1782790

Hopefully Apple will fix the labeling issue. I think they own the swipe-down menu since it cuts across all apps, it is part of tvOS, so I think the fault is theirs to find and fix. Because they're starting to take criticism from those believing they're only seeing an HD signal when in fact they're getting the 4K (assuming their bandwidth is sufficient and they're subscribing to the appropriate tier of service) but the swipe-down is just mislabeling it as HD.

Great post mate , thanks very much. You explained it better than most.

 

[JasonHB]

Great post mate , thanks very much. You explained it better than most.

It is a brilliant post and for him to go to that much time and effort is fantastic. However, the more common sense you speak on forums and the more factual evidence you supply, the more people don't listen and think they know better.

Jason