New Apple TV DOES Handle 1080P

[roidy]

Here's something I bet most people don't know... Apple gets its source material from a much higher quality source than Blu Ray which is why their 720p iTunes content looks so good.

As far as I know Apple don't encode the content, the movie / TV Studio encode the content and send them to Apple to sell. This means that both the Blu-ray version and the Apple versions are more than likely encoded from exactly the same master source.

 

[Sykotic]

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Not sure it is the best source (not my area of expertise). Played, TV still read 720p. Quality looked really good but I detected just the tiniest bit of jitter here and there. Could have been a wi-fi issue, though.

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

The new Apple TV has a fixed output resolution of 1280x720 (720p). It can't output at 1080i/p even if it could decode at that higher resolution. The same is true on the iPad, it can decode 1080p content but there is no way to get that level of resolution out of the "box."

Case in point, I posted information on the iPad's ability to decode 1080p content several months ago so there is nothing new here.

But is that a (permanent) hardware limitation, or a (potentially not permanent) software limitation? Is it impossible to push decoded 1080p/i out of the box, or is it just impossible until Apple updates the software to "turn on" that kind of feature?

 

[newagemac]

That's exactly what I mean. Apple isn't ripping from Blu Ray discs. Their 720p is encoded from the master which is a much higher quality source. I was just pointing out that the Blu Ray discs are compressed and are not the highest quality source. So when you rip a Blu Ray disc you are actually ripping from an already compressed source and reencoding again. Whereas the 720p HD content on iTunes comes from the cleanest and highest quality source available.

 

[roidy]

That's exactly what I mean. Apple isn't ripping from Blu Ray discs. Their 720p is encoded from the master which is a much higher quality source. I was just pointing out that the Blu Ray discs are compressed and are not the highest quality source. So when you rip a Blu Ray disc you are actually ripping from an already compressed source and reencoding again. Whereas the 720p HD content on iTunes comes from the cleanest and highest quality source available.

Yep sorry, to me your statement sounded like you were saying that Apples master source was better that Blu-rays master source.

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

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Not sure it is the best source (not my area of expertise). Played, TV still read 720p. Quality looked really good but I detected just the tiniest bit of jitter here and there. Could have been a wi-fi issue, though.

That's a pretty good test. Thank you very much. I've seen enough to conclude that the TV has pretty good horses inside for doing the hard work of 1080p files: decoding.

The big question now is the one I posted to fpnc: Is the 1280x720 output from the box a (permanent) hardware limitation, or a (potentially not permanent) software limitation? Is it impossible to push decoded 1080p/i out of the box no matter what, or is it just impossible until Apple updates the software to "turn on" that kind of feature?

I'm tremendously encouraged by the 1080p decoding. That's HUGE. Now I'm hoping someone with deep hardware knowledge can post a definitive answer to the above. If it's just a software switch, it could come with any update. If it's a hardware limitation, it can never come in this box "as is".

Anyone?

 

[DotCom2]

I have a Panasonic TC-P58V10 (58" 1080p plasma) and when I play one of the HP trailers it tells me via info that it's in 720p. So it looks like it is only passing it off as 720p even though it is able to handle it.

So how does it look on your 58" Plasma?

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

Avatar test segment:

Not sure it is the best source (not my area of expertise). Played, TV still read 720p. Quality looked really good but I detected just the tiniest bit of jitter here and there. Could have been a wi-fi issue, though.

Sykotic, would you happen to have the ability to grab any 720p60fps content like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ciW54nJLvEw and see if it will play on TV.

You've almost ruled out that it can push out anything about 720p "as is". So I'm now wondering if it can push out something better than 720p30fps. Since Apple tends to share specs below what's possible, maybe it can do a fuller version of the 720p spec at 60 frames per second? This wouldn't involve needing to hit "info" on your HDTV (unless is happens to show frames per second)- just see if 720p60fps would play.

For fast action video, 60fps > 30fps > 24fps.

 

[rkuo]

But is that a (permanent) hardware limitation, or a (potentially not permanent) software limitation? Is it impossible to push decoded 1080p/i out of the box, or is it just impossible until Apple updates the software to "turn on" that kind of feature?

I doubt anyone here can answer that question. We don't know what's going on in that A4 chip. Someone is going to have to jailbreak the device, actively change the output resolution, and see if it actually works.

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

So, the playback hardware is also embedded in the A4 itself, not separate from it (so encoding could be done within the A4, then have the frames pushed through a 720p gatekeeper external to the chip)?

Bummer (if true). That would mean we either have a stealth 1080p player just waiting for the Apple Gods to throw a software switch, or we have a device with the horses for decoding but no where for them to run (to our 1080pHDTVs). So, we really can't know this particular thing from the ifixit breakdown. All of it is inside the A4?

 

[Sykotic]

Sykotic, would you happen to have the ability to grab any 720p60fps content like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ciW54nJLvEw and see if it will play on TV.

You've almost ruled out that it can push out anything about 720p "as is". So I'm now wondering if it can push out something better than 720p30fps. Since Apple tends to share specs below what's possible, maybe it can do a fuller version of the 720p spec at 60 frames per second? This wouldn't involve needing to hit "info" on your HDTV (unless is happens to show frames per second)- just see if 720p60fps would play.

For fast action video, 60fps > 30fps > 24fps.

I went to the YouTube app on the ATV2 and did a search for 720p60fps and played 4 different files. All played fine. I can't say for certain that it wasn't downgrading.

 

[rkuo]

So, the playback hardware is also embedded in the A4 itself, not separate from it (so encoding could be done within the A4, then have the frames pushed through a 720p gatekeeper external to the chip)?

Bummer (if true). That would mean we either have a stealth 1080p player just waiting for the Apple Gods to throw a software switch, or we have a device with the horses for decoding but no where for them to run (to our 1080pHDTVs). So, we really can't know this particular thing from the ifixit breakdown. All of it is inside the A4?

There's only one other unknown chip on the board and it's also from Apple. So yeah, there are no published specs here that I'm aware of. Jailbreaking and testing seems like the only way to figure it out.

 

[Cave Man]

But is that a (permanent) hardware limitation, or a (potentially not permanent) software limitation? Is it impossible to push decoded 1080p/i out of the box, or is it just impossible until Apple updates the software to "turn on" that kind of feature?

Supposedly, the A4 is a rebranded Cortex A9, which can do 1080p. Not sure about framerate, though. A9 specs on NVidia board:

http://www.nvidia.com/object/tegra_250.html

 

[BlackMangoTree]

It's great it can playback 1080p. I don't think it's that much of a deal if it doesn't output 1080p, i for one find it very hard to tell the difference between bluray and ripped bluray on my Apple TV on a 50 inch Panasonic plasma. 1080p

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

I went to the YouTube app on the ATV2 and did a search for 720p60fps and played 4 different files. All played fine. I can't say for certain that it wasn't downgrading.

Again, thank you so much for testing & reporting. I've been looking all around for a 720p60fps video that you could download, but I haven't found anything not on some torrent. I thought some of the 720p camcorder manufacturers would have sample videos, but so far no luck. Anyone know where we can definitely download a fast-action, m4v, mp4, or mov file that is definitely encoded as 720p60fps? That's the last of the HD tests I'd want to throw at this box.

 

[dhy8386]

I mean i think its a big deal for a lot of people that it doesnt output 1080P but i think the most important fact is that it seems to be able to play your existing 1080P content without the need to do any further mods to your library. This is huge as it allows you to continue your normal process for ripping and storing movies and still take advantage of the ATV2 by streaming this content to it and playing on your TV.

That way when a new one comes out capable of 1080p or it is hacked to be able to do so, your already if great shape.

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

It's great it can playback 1080p. I don't think it's that much of a deal if it doesn't output 1080p, i for one find it very hard to tell the difference between bluray and ripped bluray on my Apple TV on a 50 inch Panasonic plasma. 1080p

That's great for you. There are those of us who can see the difference on our setups, and we can't be convinced to not care because someone else on their own setup can't tell the difference. This battle of "I can't see the difference, so why should YOU care" has been fought and fought in other threads. Could we not fight it again in this thread?

If you can't see the difference, this product is great for you! If you can see the difference but don't care much about that difference, this product is also great for you. We're hunting for the possibilities for those of us who can see the difference and do care about it- or even for those who only think they can see the difference.

 

[BlackMangoTree]

That's great for you. There are those of us who can see the difference on our setups, and we can't be convinced to not care because someone else on their own setup can't tell the difference. This battle of "I can't see the difference, so why should YOU care" has been fought and fought in other threads. Could we not fight it again in this thread?

If you can't see the difference, this product is great for you! If you can see the difference but don't care much about that difference, this product is also great for you. We're hunting for the possibilities for those of us who can see the difference and do care about it- or even for those who only think they can see the difference.

I am confused, all i said is i can't see the difference.

Anyway i just ripped some 1080p stuff in various ways going to try them out now i'll report back with my findings.

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

Sorry BlackMango, maybe I'm a bit hypersensitive having been on the bashed side of the "720p is good enough" arguments in various other threads over and over, which is often backed my "most people can't see the difference", which usually means "they can't see the difference" and I jumped to the conclusion that you might be going down that path too.

Thank you for testing, and I look forward to seeing your results. If you have a HDTV that will show you what video format is being pushed to it (by pushing a button like "info" during playback), you could be second to confirm that regardless of the 1080p file being decoded, only 720p leaves the box. Look for it to either say 1920 x 1080 or 1280 x 720, or maybe 1080p or 720p on your HD (info) screen while you play your test videos.

I'd love it if you would come back saying that on your HDTV, it says it's receiving better than 1280 x 720 or better than 720p. That would re-fire the potentials (and hope, for my own applications).

 

[dhy8386]

Again, thank you so much for testing & reporting. I've been looking all around for a 720p60fps video that you could download, but I haven't found anything not on some torrent. I thought some of the 720p camcorder manufacturers would have sample videos, but so far no luck. Anyone know where we can definitely download a fast-action, m4v, mp4, or mov file that is definitely encoded as 720p60fps? That's the last of the HD tests I'd want to throw at this box.

Here are a few links for you to test out. Just join Vimeo and then you can download the original sources movies in 720p 60fps

http://vimeo.com/14022191
http://vimeo.com/12609777

Let us know.

 

[Shoesy]

WOW. I really hope my newly opening iStore has an appletv on Saturday morning now!

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

Here are a few links for you to test out. Just join Vimeo and then you can download the original sources movies in 720p 60fps

http://vimeo.com/14022191
http://vimeo.com/12609777

Let us know.

Thanks for locating those.

I don't have a (new) TV yet. I want to buy 2 of them if they output 1080p. I love the 2006 edition, so this is the ONE big thing I've been waiting for. Could someone who has one, please put those to the test?

And again, if your HDTV has a "info" button or similar, could you click it during playback and share what it tells you it's getting from the Apple TV while playing these files? I wonder if it might convert 720p60fps to 720p30fps, or will it actually pass 720p60fps to the HDTV. The latter would be quite a whopper (good) discovery from this grass roots testing effort.

 

[philipk]

Could we not fight it again in this thread?

You are the one who keeps starting the fight in thread after thread.

BlackMangoTree just said he can't see the difference.

In another thread, you picked a fight with me when I stated the same and also stated most experts don't see the difference either.

I took the bait and fought with you. One thread was enough.

I just don't like that you start the fight over and over in different threads and claim it is the "don't see the difference" fault.

I don't care if you can see the difference. However, I am entitled to my opinion that I and most experts say that we don't see the difference.

This is my one and only post in this thread about "I can see the difference".

 

[philipk]

Good News!

This is VERY good news that it can decode 1080p.

I plan to start ripping Blu-Ray’s so that I can use my library on the road. My wife and I take frequent weekend get aways and like having our whole DVD library available. Though we don’t take our ATV with us, I like to rip at the highest quality possible. So it is good news that I can decode a 1080p signal on the new ATV.

 

[Sykotic]

Here are a few links for you to test out. Just join Vimeo and then you can download the original sources movies in 720p 60fps

http://vimeo.com/14022191
http://vimeo.com/12609777

Let us know.

Downloaded the first and it played fine. Second one didn't have a download link. Said not available for download. My TV will show it is in 720p but doesn't show any info on framerate.