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I'm not exactly sure what you are defending. You are quite thick to avoid what I am saying though. You didn't have to go hunting for evidence to discredit what I am saying, as I repeated what you are now quoting in speaking with you directly. I'll try to sum it up in a few sound sentences for you.

Fusion Drives and SSDs are faster than traditional mechanical drives. However, I am currently satisfied with the fluidity of my system that is using a traditional mechanical drive. If I were purchasing a Mac desktop today with my usage, the BTO upgrade costs of a SSD (which also sacrifices storage) or Fusion Drive would not be worth the cost to me for the improved read/write speeds that they provide even though they are noticeable.

How is this so hard to understand? I don't do anything intensive. I don't care for spending $200+ so my computer starts up x number of seconds faster or Chrome opens up in a half bounce/instantaneously instead of one. If I were doing more intensive work that required or would benefit from much higher read/write speeds then it would be worth the cost.

You may think "well what's $200 in regards to a $1200+ desktop" but when you look at the Mini, $200 is a large percentage of its entire cost.


I get what you're saying. To you it's not worth the price. No one on planet earth is going to argue that and win.

My point is if you don't feel the SSD/Fusion is a worth while upgrade then no upgrade must be worth it in your eyes. You said "fusion drives and SSDs provide much better of an experience".

So we are both in agreement that it's a much better experience. Now whether or not thats worth $200 to someone who is going to be using a computer for maybe 5 years, 365 days a week is an entirely different conversation. Remember this is macrumors so it's geared more toward people who want more cutting edge tech.
 
I get what you're saying. To you it's not worth the price. No one on planet earth is going to argue that and win.

My point is if you don't feel the SSD/Fusion is a worth while upgrade then no upgrade must be worth it in your eyes. You said "fusion drives and SSDs provide much better of an experience".

So we are both in agreement that it's a much better experience. Now whether or not thats worth $200 to someone who is going to be using a computer for maybe 5 years, 365 days a week is an entirely different conversation. Remember this is macrumors so it's geared more toward people who want more cutting edge tech.

You don't get what I am saying as after your first three sentences you're back at it. It's not that I don't feel as though ultimately SSD/Fusion is not a worthwhile upgrade, just that it is not a worthwhile upgrade for me at this present time based on what I do. How can you realize that in your first few sentences and then immediately forget about it in the next? The reason I shared my opinions on the matter is because it pertains to the topic and yes, they are better and faster, but it's not a linear decision because it. costs. more. money. Therefore, just like anything else in life, paying money for what you may not want or need is where the decision occurs.

You may think, "well, if it is better and faster, how could you not want that!" which also ties in to the last bit that you posted here. Yes, we are both in agreement that SSDs or Fusion is a much better experience than a traditional mechanical drive. However, what does "traditional mechanical drive" translate to? For you, it seems to translate to a terrible experience, and for me, it translates to a more than adequate experience. This can still be improved upon, which is why, yes, I am aware that other internal solutions are both "better" and "faster" but not always at the cost of actual money and other sacrifices such as storage space.

You keep picking on $200 but the only reason I brought that up is because it is the entry BTO purchase amount to get off of mechanical for most Apple computers. That's only where it starts. If you want a Fusion, you're good to go - but again, you'd have to decide if its speed increases are worth that money to you based on how you feel about the speed of what a traditional mechanical drive offers. However, if you want the speed of a SSD, you're paying $200 just for that with a fraction of the storage you need if you are the user that needs to store a lot, and you then have to worry about other alternatives to storage if you need the larger internal amount that the stock mechanical drive offers. This means paying even more ridiculous Apple premiums for a larger SSD, or shelling out money for other external interfaced drives or resorting to subscription/payment based cloud or online storage.

No thanks. Not worth it for what I do. If anything, Fusion would be worth it, but again, I am not dissatisfied with the speeds of mechanical to consider paying the premium to jump to a SSD-like experience. I have a SSD in my notebook. It's great, but definitely unnecessary for me, and that's considering that I paid even less for it (although it is SATA compared to PCIe) 3 years ago in comparison to these BTO premiums.
 
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*Cliff notes for people who don't want to read through a 500 word post*

  • Dark Void wants to let us know that the upgrade is not worth it to him at this present time
  • Dark Void also wants to let us know that upgrades cost more money
 
Sorry, busy for a long reply. But 5+ years applied to the longativity is a made up figure by yourself and is completely untrue. It can componsate for other aspects of a computer such as lower RAM for when it pages out, but putting any figure on how it adds to the machine is impossible and completely indeterminable.

It most certainly is not made up by me - I have taken the quote directly from a well known computer magazine (last months issue). If you PM me I can tell you which magazine and which issue number.

I am not in the habit of telling porky pies so I will thank you to refrain from making such accusations. :eek:
 
*Cliff notes for people who don't want to read through a 500 word post*

  • Dark Void wants to let us know that the upgrade is not worth it to him at this present time
  • Dark Void also wants to let us know that upgrades cost more money

He does appear to side step the point that this is a job he could carry out himself for a fraction of the Apple BTO prices.

He then keeps mentioning the shortage of storage space. However, if one fits the SSD (as most people do) as an addition to the existing drive (therefore freeing up the HDD for data only) he would actually end up with MORE STORAGE. :)

Simply an observation.
 
It most certainly is not made up by me - I have taken the quote directly from a well known computer magazine (last months issue). If you PM me I can tell you which magazine and which issue number.

I am not in the habit of telling porky pies so I will thank you to refrain from making such accusations. :eek:

Putting a definitive number on such an upgrade is just pointless, and will never be accurate due to users needs not only being different but also evolving. There is no scientific study that proves that an SSD can give 5 years more life into a product lol, it's like saying buying a Mustang will get you 5 more girls interested in you or seomthing haha It is a completely random guess and will most likely not work like that. There is a million more factors to take into account, including what e computer is used for and its specifications. For example, I have a gaming PC that still has the dual HDDs in RAID0 from 11 years ago and it's still running like a beast, you can't put such a figure in something so variable as it really will be different in every scenario. Send me the link though, will make an interesting read to see exactly what they said haha
 
I strongly agree with you. That said, whilst it's true that not everyone should have an SSD over an HDD (as long as SSDs are more expensive and provide less storage/long term idle storage, which they probably will as long as they're made).I believe most (like 70%+) people would benefit more from a small SSD than a large HDD, especially with the external storage options available. Or of course the best of both world. Fusion
I kind of this is exactly the problem that many people on these forums have. They way overestimate how many people would truly benefit from an SSD. 70%?! I don't think so, maybe 20%. To be perfectly honest many people in my life might not even notice a difference between using a HD or an SSD; they just don't look at what a computer does in that respect. They don't watch how long or even remotely care how long it takes to transfer files to a USB drive unless it takes forever. Opening an app? As long as it opens within a reasonable time. When most people are buying apple computers they are seeing 128GB vs 1TB, not SSD versus HHD.
I cannot speak for the experience that some of you may have add on iMacs or similar computers but I am running the latest version of Yosemite on a 2009 iMac with, you guessed it, a spinner! You know what? It's fantastic and I like it more than my 2012 macbook air because it has more storage space and that is something I appreciate immensely. I would be lying if I didn't mention the display plays a big role me as I just prefer desktops. Point is my experience with HDDs has been very good and has shaped most of my time on computers. SSDs are the future no doubt, but as of yet for the average joe or jill, HDDs with more storage space just make more sense. As a side note I don't know how many drives most of you have gone through but I have never had to replace a HDD yet, which is odd because browsing these forums one might think that they fail all the time.
As for the OP, congrats on the new purchase, I am sure she will love it and if not you can always get a refund. I myself am waiting until fall for Apple to refresh their lineup. I mean they rarely budge on prices and it's two year old hardware.
 
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buy the better computer because the price will be forgotten very soon after purchase. enjoyment however lasts a lot longer.
 
My decision to go with the 21.5" iMac (spec bumped to the 2.7GHz CPU and Fusion drive) was because my wife trends to keep electronic stuff until they break. So I mainly wanted to future-proof her computer for as long as possible. Yes, I spent about $400 over the base model, but I felt it was $$$ well spent seeing as how the wife will likely be using this for around the next 5 years or more.
 
He does appear to side step the point that this is a job he could carry out himself for a fraction of the Apple BTO prices.

He then keeps mentioning the shortage of storage space. However, if one fits the SSD (as most people do) as an addition to the existing drive (therefore freeing up the HDD for data only) he would actually end up with MORE STORAGE. :)

Simply an observation.


I was going to bring it up myself but I figured he would respond with a dissertation and I would end up much like Alice.....finding out how deep the rabbit-hole goes.
 
I second (or fifteen) the fusion option at a minimum. Also, if my wife is any indication, the trackpad will not be appreciated by someone that is not into using the multitouch gestures. The mouse will be fine. A couple of other things to consider. First, dGPU model will hold its own for several years to come, look at the refurb section. Second, if you are not in a huge rush, consider waiting for the 21.5" rumored retina iMac.
 
*Cliff notes for people who don't want to read through a 500 word post*

  • Dark Void wants to let us know that the upgrade is not worth it to him at this present time
  • Dark Void also wants to let us know that upgrades cost more money
I was going to bring it up myself but I figured he would respond with a dissertation and I would end up much like Alice.....finding out how deep the rabbit-hole goes.

Sorry for responding to your posts. Not to mention, I was providing information in order to help the thread starter when you decided to begin going back and forth with me. Now I'm posting too many words for you? You quoted a post of mine from a while ago after you saw that my opinion wasn't something that you agreed with, but now act as if I'm wasting your time. Get real.
 
He does appear to side step the point that this is a job he could carry out himself for a fraction of the Apple BTO prices.

He then keeps mentioning the shortage of storage space. However, if one fits the SSD (as most people do) as an addition to the existing drive (therefore freeing up the HDD for data only) he would actually end up with MORE STORAGE. :)

Simply an observation.

I'm side stepping voiding a warranty and immediately adding third party upgrades to a machine when the discussion is about what BTO options should be chosen. Is that right?

Most people fit a third party SSD along with their HDD in their fresh iMac or Mac Mini? I was not aware.

Your observation lacks clarity. Get your ideas together before you decide to jump on me along with someone else that has failed to read all of what I posted just to seem relevant.
 
Putting a definitive number on such an upgrade is just pointless, and will never be accurate due to users needs not only being different but also evolving. There is no scientific study that proves that an SSD can give 5 years more life into a product lol, it's like saying buying a Mustang will get you 5 more girls interested in you or something haha It is a completely random guess and will most likely not work like that. There is a million more factors to take into account, including what e computer is used for and its specifications. For example, I have a gaming PC that still has the dual HDDs in RAID0 from 11 years ago and it's still running like a beast, you can't put such a figure in something so variable as it really will be different in every scenario. Send me the link though, will make an interesting read to see exactly what they said haha

I think it's what is referred to as 'on average' and the 'balance of probabilities'. Naturally everyone's use is different, it may add 10 years to one persons PC whilst another only 2 years. That's how statistics work.
 
I'm side stepping voiding a warranty and immediately adding third party upgrades to a machine when the discussion is about what BTO options should be chosen. Is that right?

Most people fit a third party SSD along with their HDD in their fresh iMac or Mac Mini? I was not aware.

Your observation lacks clarity. Get your ideas together before you decide to jump on me along with someone else that has failed to read all of what I posted just to seem relevant.

No one is jumping on anyone and it is you that has now introduced warranties in an effort to bolster your flagging argument. I have fitted an SSD to two iMac's, my own and my daughters. You will note I said I recently fitted an SSD into my "mid-2011" iMac i.e. warranty now expired.

I am also not aware I used the term 'most people fit third party SSDs into new machines'.

What you wrote was more akin to a 'diatribe' and as such it tends to make the reader switch off long before the end.
 
I second (or fifteen) the fusion option at a minimum. Also, if my wife is any indication, the trackpad will not be appreciated by someone that is not into using the multitouch gestures. The mouse will be fine. A couple of other things to consider. First, dGPU model will hold its own for several years to come, look at the refurb section. Second, if you are not in a huge rush, consider waiting for the 21.5" rumored retina iMac.

I have to confess I'm not a trackpad fan - I simply cannot get along with them. It is one of the few items I have bought to go with my Apple kit and returned it for a refund. Fortunately the wife is the same - simply hated it.

We are both confirmed mouse people. :D
 
My wife's windows XP computer is on the fritz, and I'm thinking about getting her a new 21.5" iMac to replace it. She's never had a Mac before, and I wonder how the transition will be for her? I also haven't had a Mac before actually, but I've ordered the new rMB and plan on getting the next gen iMac.

Anyway, she's not really a computer person, so I wonder if this would be a good option for her. She also has an iPhone and iPad. Her computer work is minimal - web, email, Word, Excel, picture viewing and video watching. Is the Intel HD5000 graphics sufficient for driving the 21.5" display and viewing video without lag or stuttering? My main concern is if she's able to adapt to OS X coming from windows, or if it's going to require significant training for her? I could just get her a decent new Windows PC for about half the price, but I'd like the both of us to move to OS X. Any advice or suggestions appreciated.
Yes. And Yes!
I bought one for my wife - my lovely wife that struggled with Windows and its virus riddled Web experience for years. The usage sounds similar to your wife's needs. There was hardly no learning curve, I mean using a web browser is pretty universal, so there were no problems for here there. And the big thing is she has not had to ask me to fix her computer since she has had her Mac. I was forever having to fight viruses or reinstall windows....
Yes, get her one!
 
Yes. And Yes!
I bought one for my wife - my lovely wife that struggled with Windows and its virus riddled Web experience for years. The usage sounds similar to your wife's needs. There was hardly no learning curve, I mean using a web browser is pretty universal, so there were no problems for here there. And the big thing is she has not had to ask me to fix her computer since she has had her Mac. I was forever having to fight viruses or reinstall windows....
Yes, get her one!

Are we talking about Microsoft Windows here - the system I used from the days of 3.1 to the present day and have never encountered a virus?

You have heard the one about a good workman never blaming his tools I take it? Perhaps you both need to stop looking at the porn websites. ;)
 
No one is jumping on anyone and it is you that has now introduced warranties in an effort to bolster your flagging argument. I have fitted an SSD to two iMac's, my own and my daughters. You will note I said I recently fitted an SSD into my "mid-2011" iMac i.e. warranty now expired.

I am also not aware I used the term 'most people fit third party SSDs into new machines'.

What you wrote was more akin to a 'diatribe' and as such it tends to make the reader switch off long before the end.

You ought to read my posts if you intend on quoting or talking about them, that's all I am saying. You can make excuses for your attention span on you like but if you had actually read before commenting, you would realize my point, whether you disagree or not.

If you are unaware of you what you even posted, well then I can't really help you there. I suppose I can expect for you to not read my posts fully but to be unaware of your own has me worried for you. You clearly said that "most people" fit a SSD in their machine alongside the existing drive. Please tell me where you got this information.

I "introduced" warranties because you brought up DIY (after you stated that I "side stepped" it) and I wanted to let you know how ridiculous you sound. The discussion was buying today, not upgrading an old machine. Your information regarding prying the computer open immediately and installing a second drive or a replacing the existing one is irrelevant, especially for the typical consumer. Very few people are going to tear down a new machine and void its warranty in order to save some money.
 
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You ought to read my posts if you intend on quoting or talking about them, that's all I am saying. You can make excuses for your attention span on you like but if you had actually read before commenting, you would realize my point, whether you disagree or not.

If you are unaware of you what you even posted, well then I can't really help you there. I suppose I can expect for you to not read my posts fully but to be unaware of your own has me worried for you. You clearly said that "most people" fit a SSD in their machine alongside the existing drive. Please tell me where you got this information.

I "introduced" warranties because you brought up DIY (after you stated that I "side stepped" it) and I wanted to let you know how ridiculous you sound. The discussion was buying today, not upgrading an old machine. Your information regarding prying the computer open immediately and installing a second drive or a replacing the existing one is irrelevant, especially for the typical consumer. Very few people are going to tear down a new machine and void its warranty in order to save some money.

I would refer you to the last line of post 90 for my response.
 
I cannot speak for the experience that some of you may have add on iMacs or similar computers but I am running the latest version of Yosemite on a 2009 iMac with, you guessed it, a spinner! You know what? It's fantastic and I like it more than my 2012 macbook air because it has more storage space and that is something I appreciate immensely. I would be lying if I didn't mention the display plays a big role me as I just prefer desktops. Point is my experience with HDDs has been very good and has shaped most of my time on computers. SSDs are the future no doubt, but as of yet for the average joe or jill, HDDs with more storage space just make more sense. As a side note I don't know how many drives most of you have gone through but I have never had to replace a HDD yet, which is odd because browsing these forums one might think that they fail all the time.
As for the OP, congrats on the new purchase, I am sure she will love it and if not you can always get a refund. I myself am waiting until fall for Apple to refresh their lineup. I mean they rarely budge on prices and it's two year old hardware.

Ah! But there we go. Storage space. I said 70%, because practically every non-techy I talk to use less than 128gigs. With that in mind, SSDs make more sense, do you not agree? Perhaps the people I surround myself with (other than the techies) just use way less space than average, but now you know the basis of my claim.

Sorry for responding to your posts. Not to mention, I was providing information in order to help the thread starter when you decided to begin going back and forth with me. Now I'm posting too many words for you? You quoted a post of mine from a while ago after you saw that my opinion wasn't something that you agreed with, but now act as if I'm wasting your time. Get real.

Hello, Dark Void. Just want to let you know that even though I personally think SSDs/Fusion Drives are worth is for most people, and definitely for me, I agree with you. It's not the better option for everybody. Now that that's said, can we all stop fighting? You seemed rather balanced and cool to begin with, but then the attacks began, and I suggest both sides just stop, and ignore them.
Thank you. I will now stop being a hopeless optimist, dreaming of a nice internet.

I think it's what is referred to as 'on average' and the 'balance of probabilities'. Naturally everyone's use is different, it may add 10 years to one persons PC whilst another only 2 years. That's how statistics work.

Ah, yes. But SSDs in client computers is relatively new, and OSs have not really been developed around the idea that there's probably an SSD in most computers. The world of computers change rapidly sometimes. That said, since Windows 10 is coming out soon, Windows probably won't change much in requirements anytime soon, so on that OS, it'd only be the apps that run on top of it. OS X isn't as certain though, since Apple could do bolder things. The amount of processes that launch on startup, have grown tremendously over the past few OSs though, and they need to be fed data more than once (some anyway). What I'm essentially trying to say, is that even an average can be really hard to estimate, since the past isn't necessarily indicative of the future when it comes to computers.
 
Hello, Dark Void. Just want to let you know that even though I personally think SSDs/Fusion Drives are worth is for most people, and definitely for me, I agree with you. It's not the better option for everybody. Now that that's said, can we all stop fighting? You seemed rather balanced and cool to begin with, but then the attacks began, and I suggest both sides just stop, and ignore them.
Thank you. I will now stop being a hopeless optimist, dreaming of a nice internet.

It's not even that I don't believe they are not worth it for most people, I just think that it is a standpoint worth mentioning. Regarding the rest of your post, I'll defend what I say, within reason. I don't think a "fight" is me responding to people nitpicking my posts, contradicting themselves and leaving the conversation with a witty comment when they have nothing left to say. I don't use name-calling or anything like that. I'm just responding, which is the ridiculous part, because I'm being initiated yet I am then ridiculed for responding. It makes literally no sense.
 
It's not even that I don't believe they are not worth it for most people, I just think that it is a standpoint worth mentioning. Regarding the rest of your post, I'll defend what I say, within reason. I don't think a "fight" is me responding to people nitpicking my posts, contradicting themselves and leaving the conversation with a witty comment when they have nothing left to say. I don't use name-calling or anything like that. I'm just responding, which is the ridiculous part, because I'm being initiated yet I am then ridiculed for responding. It makes literally no sense.

I know. I for one actually think it's great you state your opinion, since balance is necessary, and people who, like you, would not benefit fro an SSD, either because they need more storage, or could spend the money better, deserve to hear it as well.
Can be a bit of a waste of time with some people though (in case you guys are reading, I'm not necessarily talking about you). I mean, if people start with personal insults for instance, it's usually better to just ignore them, since they won't even listen to your arguments anyway. Anyhow, defend what you will and take a stance. I respect that as well. Just wanted to let you know that there are people on your side as well.
 
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