New Dual 2, 2.3 OR Refurb. 2, 2.5?

mintlivedotcom

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Original poster
Apr 21, 2004
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I can get the Dual 2 for $1699 (EDU - $100 "Spring" rebate and a free cheap printer after rebate) or the refurbished Dual 2 at $1649.

Now the price difference is even closer. Is the 8 RAM slots on the refurbished worth it, compared to the 4 on the new? The new one also has a better graphics card and video memory.

What do you think?

I'm ready to bite!!!
 

mad jew

Moderator emeritus
Apr 3, 2004
32,194
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Adelaide, Australia
I think any of those Power Macs will handle your needs fairly easily. I'd go the 2.3GHz machine personally. You get a new computer, plus I think it's the sweet spot of the current range price-to-performance wise.
 

rotlex

macrumors 6502a
May 1, 2003
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In my own recent experience, trying to decide between the same boxes you are looking at, I boiled it down to the dual 2.3. I've been VERY happy with the decision. I guess after just reading the specs, trying things out, and thinking about it for weeks, I felt it was giving me the most bang for my buck. The only thing I "upgraded" on it was the RAM. (Took it to 3.5GB).

I use it primarily for Photoshop work (CS2), and I must say, it has simply screamed through anything I have thrown at it. Yep, I'm a very happy camper. Also figuring this machine will last me for at least the next 3-4 years as it's already more than I actually need.

Good luck with your decision, although I don't think you can really go wrong with any of them. :)
 

mintlivedotcom

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Original poster
Apr 21, 2004
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I appreciate the replies so far! I guess I am leaning towards the new 2.3. Another plus is that I can go pick it up at the Apple Store!

Yes, I will bump up the RAM. I can also use the extra internal 120 GB drive that is currently in my dual G4. I am assuming internal drives (7200 RPM) will be the same, speed-wise.
 

carlos700

macrumors regular
Dec 17, 2004
248
1
Omaha, NE
The Power Mac G5 uses Serial ATA Hard Disk Drives. To use the internal 120GB Hard Drive in your Power Mac G5 you will need to install a Ultra ATA/133 Card in your Power Mac G5.
 

FFTT

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Apr 17, 2004
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You can still find NEW Rev B dual 2.0 GHz G5's at many resellers including CompUSA for around $1899. Some resellers and e-sellers are offering free RAM upgrades as well. The model number for the Rev B 2.0 is

VPN-M9455LL/A

I would press them hard to get that model down to no more than $1749.

I'm not sure exactly why the model number ends with an A because it IS
the correct model number for the 2004 Rev B 2.0.
My guess is that it was the first generation 2.0 with the newer 970FX processor.

The 2.3 is the sweet spot in the new 2005 models, but the previous
Rev B 2004 2.0 model has the PRO 8 RAM slot motherboard and 133MHz PCI-X just like the 2.3's

The $500-$600 price difference between these two models can go a long way towards RAM, displays, GPU cards, software and interfaces,

The newer 2005 Rev C 2.0 G5 tower is seriously crippled by the prosumer
4 RAM slot/ 33MHz PCI motherboard.

The 2.5 is O.K., but there is the water cooling issue.


The BEST choices are the new 2.3 GHz or the older 2004 Rev B 2.0

There's really nothing wrong with going for a refurb at all.
Apple is very good about making sure their refurbs are well tested and trouble free.

My new Rev B 2.0 is outstanding and it shipped with both Panther AND Tiger.

I'm perfectly fine with the standard 8 X Superdrive and can always upgrade the 64 MB VRAM Nividia 5200 GPU later.
 

FFTT

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Apr 17, 2004
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The original manufacturer of the water cooling system was quoted
saying that he would not guarantee the system for much more than 2 years.

I do understand that some models are now equipped by a different manufacturer, but if you're buying a refurb 2.5, I'm not sure how you differentiate which system was used.
 

mintlivedotcom

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Original poster
Apr 21, 2004
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carlos700 said:
The Power Mac G5 uses Serial ATA Hard Disk Drives. To use the internal 120GB Hard Drive in your Power Mac G5 you will need to install a Ultra ATA/133 Card in your Power Mac G5.
I am trying to figure out about how much this card would cost. Any estimates?
 

rickvanr

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Apr 10, 2002
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Brockville
FFTT said:
The original manufacturer of the water cooling system was quoted
saying that he would not guarantee the system for much more than 2 years.

I do understand that some models are now equipped by a different manufacturer, but if you're buying a refurb 2.5, I'm not sure how you differentiate which system was used.

Is this the same as in the new Dual 2.7 machines?
 

mintlivedotcom

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Original poster
Apr 21, 2004
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FFTT said:
You can still find NEW Rev B dual 2.0 GHz G5's at many resellers including CompUSA for around $1899. Some resellers and e-sellers are offering free RAM upgrades as well. The model number for the Rev B 2.0 is

VPN-M9455LL/A

The 2.3 is the sweet spot in the new 2005 models, but the previous
Rev B 2004 2.0 model has the PRO 8 RAM slot motherboard and 133MHz PCI-X just like the 2.3's

The newer 2005 Rev C 2.0 G5 tower is seriously crippled by the prosumer
4 RAM slot/ 33MHz PCI motherboard.

The 2.5 is O.K., but there is the water cooling issue.

The BEST choices are the new 2.3 GHz or the older 2004 Rev B 2.0

I'm perfectly fine with the standard 8 X Superdrive and can always upgrade the 64 MB VRAM Nividia 5200 GPU later.
I wonder if the refurbished dual 2Ghz has the 8 slots - it doesn't have a model number and Apple couldn't even tell me when I called! Yes, the 16x dual-layer burner doesn't entice me at all (8x is much better than the 2x DVR-104 I have now). Also, the 2.5 Ghz use water cooling, but the 2 and 2.3's don't?
 

FFTT

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Apr 17, 2004
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I'm pretty sure the newer 2.7's use the new manufacturer.

The best I can tell you is that I would not personally worry about getting
Apple Care for an air cooled 2.0 or 2.3, but I would be concerned about a 2.5 or 2.7

The Rev B 2.0 is a solid well proven performer.
The new 2.3 also uses the well proven server chips.

That's really what I'm using as the basis for my recommendations.

The Apple Store refurb "more info" link should give you a full breakdown of what the machine includes.

You need to call again and ask for a more well informed sales rep.

The model machine number in my Rev B 2.0 system profiler is listed as follows:

Hardware Overview:

Machine Name: Power Mac G5
Machine Model: PowerMac7,3
CPU Type: PowerPC G5 (2.2)
Number Of CPUs: 2
CPU Speed: 2 GHz
L2 Cache (per CPU): 512 KB
Memory: 1 GB
Bus Speed: 1 GHz
Boot ROM Version: 5.1.8f7
 

acedickson

macrumors 6502a
Dec 6, 2004
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ATL
$25-$50+ depending on where you get it from. I recommend checking resellerratings.com for the best price.
 

Chip NoVaMac

macrumors G3
Dec 25, 2003
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Northern Virginia
Trying to understand how the 2.3 is the "sweet spot". Performance wise it is about 15% faster in both bus and processor speed. For some of us, we will never need to add a PCI card to the PM. For $150 you can add a 250GB HDD to the 2.0 aftermarket. As for memory, some of us don't need 8gb RAM, let alone 4gb (though for "status" we might just do 4gb).

I ask because I am torn between the iMac 2.0 (mainly the 17" since I have a Dell FP2001 that I can span hack to) and the PM 2x2.0. The PM will cost me an extra $100, since I do want BT/AE. That is a $600 delta. Not that I can't afford the extra cost, but looking at Barefeats and such - there doesn't seem to be much added boost in performance. At least for those of us doing maybe non-gaming. And that $600 can go to other toys.

The areas that I would like to see a performance boost in are; creating DVD's from AVI's/MPG's in iDVD and a boost in some minor Photoshop work. For me I want to have a system that I will be happy with for the next 3 to 5 years.
 

mintlivedotcom

macrumors regular
Original poster
Apr 21, 2004
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Ok, so now I think it's narrowed down to the refurbished dual 2 Ghz ($1649) OR the new dual 2.3 Ghz ($2299 EDU). As far as specs, the main difference I see is the processor speed. I don't know if it's worth the extra $650.

The refurbished comes with 8 slots for RAM, which is probably overkill for me right now, but is nice to have. The 300 Ghz difference in processor speed...hmmm...
 

acedickson

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Dec 6, 2004
727
0
ATL
mintlivedotcom said:
Ok, so now I think it's narrowed down to the refurbished dual 2 Ghz ($1649) OR the new dual 2.3 Ghz ($2299 EDU). As far as specs, the main difference I see is the processor speed. I don't know if it's worth the extra $650.

The refurbished comes with 8 slots for RAM, which is probably overkill for me right now, but is nice to have. The 300 Ghz difference in processor speed...hmmm...
I recommend the Dual 2.0 PM. There's just not enough extra features, in my opinion, to justify another $650 for the Dual 2.3 PM. There's alot you could do with that extra $650. You could make it equal in all respects, except processor speed, and probably come out with an extra $200-$300. Is the extra 300MHz per CPU worth that much each?
 

rickvanr

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Apr 10, 2002
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Brockville
mintlivedotcom said:
The refurbished comes with 8 slots for RAM, which is probably overkill for me right now, but is nice to have.
You say its overkill now, but when you goto buy RAM and notice how much cheaper 512MB x 2 is compared to 1GB sticks. You'll be happy.
 

Chip NoVaMac

macrumors G3
Dec 25, 2003
8,889
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Northern Virginia
rickvanr said:
You say its overkill now, but when you goto buy RAM and notice how much cheaper 512MB x 2 is compared to 1GB sticks. You'll be happy.

Based on OWC pricing a difference of about $20 to $30 between 5x512's and 2x1gb. Not a earth shattering sum IMO for 2GB RAM.
 

GlynJones

macrumors 6502
Jun 15, 2005
319
2
Well I ordered a refurb Dual 1.8 last week from the apple store as it was such a bargain when compared to new.

It should arrive tomorrow. Yippee!!!!!.
 

FFTT

macrumors 68030
Apr 17, 2004
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The RAM slot issue IS important when you look at the single 2GB RAM stick prices.

This also has me concerned about the future Intel based machines.

Certainly, you can install DDR2 RAM in a 4 slot motherboard to bring it up to 8 GB's of RAM, but single DDR2 RAM 2GB sticks are currently running $950.00
each!

Buying at a reseller for $1899 does not guarantee you a Tiger install disk.

You could get the refurb 2.0 with 3 year Apple care AND Tiger directly from Apple for $50.00 less.

Buy 2 extra 1 GB RAM sticks 3rd party and that 2.0 will scream!

The only difficulty will be catching one available on the Apple Store web site.

They go FAST! In the box and out
 

rickvanr

macrumors 68040
Apr 10, 2002
3,256
11
Brockville
Chip NoVaMac said:
Based on OWC pricing a difference of about $20 to $30 between 5x512's and 2x1gb. Not a earth shattering sum IMO for 2GB RAM.

Oh, well that I didn't know. I bought locally where it was $70 for 512, and $170 for 1GB.
 

mintlivedotcom

macrumors regular
Original poster
Apr 21, 2004
194
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FFTT said:
The only difficulty will be catching one available on the Apple Store web site.

They go FAST! In the box and out
Out of stock, but I will keep checking!!!
 

FFTT

macrumors 68030
Apr 17, 2004
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A Stoned Throw From Ground Zero
Chip,

The 2.3 IS the sweet spot in the NEW 2005 models, but if you can find a 2004 Rev B 2.0 , you get the same 8 slot/133MHz PCI-X PRO motherboard for way less.

Apple Pro applications love RAM and your best performance increase will most likely be noticed by adding that extra RAM rather than relying on just processor speed.

I'm recommending the 2.0 Rev B because of the overall value and proven performance and that fact that you'll have a fantastic machine that will hold you well into 2010 and beyond.

Since you work right next to CompUSA, you should be able to get the store
manager to drop his price on the remaining NEW in Box Rev B's he has in stock. AND you may still qualify for the $9.95 Tiger upgrade from Apple.

If he tries to go more than $1749, I'd look elsewhere.

The Rev B 2.0's were priced NEW June 1st at $1699 education with an additional $100 rebate. So don't let anyone take you for a ride on price.