New Edge browser in Windows is just ...wow! 🤬

[simonmet]

What a ***ing ***show. Microsoft is back to their old dirty tactics and it's worse than ever. This has been blowing up in Windows circles apparently, but I was only half aware of it before succumbing. For those not in the know, this is what Microsoft did:

1. Pushed a major (and terrible) new version of its (now Chromium-based) Edge browser through required software updates in a way that was almost forced or at least not at all clear what the update was or entailed.
2. The update deleted the old version (which was just fine for my needs, and quite fast), and there is (apparently) no way to revert to it unless you had a full system snapshot before it updated (I didn't).
3. Aside from being terrible, bloated and slow (hey, it's Chromium), the new browser pushes Bing search and Microsoft news feeds incessantly.
4. It's not at all clear how to set up things like a custom page for new tabs and/or change the default search engine, which (you guessed it) is Bing. I'm guessing it's possible, but it appeared to be deliberately obfuscated and it didn't keep my preferences from the previous version.
5. When I tried to unfollow every one of the stupid news feeds it said: "Because you unfollowed every feed, it has been reset to the default".
6. After trying to turn off the Microsoft tracking and news-feed features, and deleting the shortcut from the desktop, I found it had reset settings and reinstalled the shortcut.
7. It won't let you uninstall the browser. Sure others are available (like Brave etc), but dirty Edge will always be there.

I may (and do) complain about Apple sometimes (nay a lot) but I do so because I have very high standards, and I make no apologies for that. But while I had been mostly happy with Windows 10 of late (despite such things as putting ads in the Start menu because they were easy to remove), this behaviour and this new browser made me realise just how much better the experience is in Apple. Even at their worst (annoying update notifications) Apple is still light-years ahead of the kind of contempt Microsoft has for its users. Steve Jobs was right when he said Microsoft has no taste. I wonder if the boffins calling the shots on these decisions realise or care how much they piss off users; or whether it's just the money and tracking that prevails.

This one terrible experience put an immediate end to my curiosity in Windows hardware, and frankly, the Windows operating system too. I deleted Windows from my Mac for now as a result. It even made me feel good that Apple was ditching Windows support (natively at least) when I was previously one of its staunchest defenders.

I sure hope anyone from Apple who reads this will take note about the kinds of things that are bad for users, but I don't think they need as much in the way of advice than Microsoft. I'm looking forward to Big Sur! and will likely install one of the public betas, since I'm not using my Mac for any critical work right now.

 

[kazmac]

Thanks for those thoughts @simonmet > It's a gamble with either OS, but that is ridiculous. I hope the Big Sur beta goes fine for you.

 

[Kcetech1]

1 and 2: I can give you, but we were being warned for months that the transition was taking place.

3: same as Chrome and many other browsers, Click the 3 dots for setting or more and go to settings ( or Ctrl + F ) its all in there and stupidly simple due to all the labeling. ( I flipped back to continue where left off on the startup options )

4: see above

5, no idea I don't subscribe to news feeds on a browser

6. shortcut never came back for me, as for user tracking I just use a tool to turn it all off specifically OandO Shutup. and confirmed with wireshark that no data heads back to servers

7. nope just like the old Edge etc long before, but its no different than OSX going nuts after killing Safari.

upside for me is it was lots faster, moved my bookmarks and category folders correctly and activeX controls I needed for specific remote device monitoring still worked flawless. and I really prefer the Chrome/Chromium toolbars over the old Edge

 

[simonmet]

Thanks @kazmac. I don't really need Windows right now, and I'm not even playing any games in it currently. I can always install it again at some point if I need to.

And yes, I can get pretty emotional about these things! At least I can help others. Plenty of Windows users are as pissed off as I was. See this article at the Verge:

https://www.theverge.com/21310611/microsoft-edge-browser-forced-update-chromium-editorial

 

[simonmet]

@Kcetech1. I'm glad you enjoy it, but who was being warned? I don't follow Microsoft news closely; nor should I have to to avoid being treated in this manner.

The right thing to do would've been to make it an optional download through the Microsoft store; call it by a new name or version number; or otherwise make it very clear to users that it's a completely different browser; and at the very least allow you to keep the previous version when the new one is such a dramatic change. What these companies (and occasionally even Apple) don't seem to get is that it's not ok to blame the user for trying to manipulate them or for your own poor attitudes, behaviour or quality.

As for point 5, the Microsoft news feeds are there by default! All you had to do is scroll down from the main page (which they changed from my previous home page) and they're automatically subscribed to. I don't subscribe to any third-party news feed or extension. Plus, as noted, they wouldn't let me unsubscribe from them all. At best you can hide them from the start page.

But quite frankly, after it spam-launched a new full-screen introduction to the new browser and didn't keep my preferences from the previous Edge (as noted in the Verge article above), I was immediately put off this new browser. Is it too much to ask to be the one in control of which websites and news articles I see and visit? It did not make it easy to find where the basic settings were, and believe me I spent 10-20 minutes trying to make it look and behave like the previous app, but I failed and at that point I gave up.

Worst of all, scrolling performance was just plain bad. I defended the previous Edge when it got nothing but hate from most Windows users. For me it was simple, fast, and did what I needed. This new browser is atrocious, even if it's more powerful and feature-packed. Their behaviour in forcing it onto users the way that they did says a lot about the company.

 

[bsamcash]

When I tried to unfollow every one of the stupid news feeds it said: "Because you unfollowed every feed, it has been reset to the default".

I have nothing productive to add, just wanted to say this is funny as hell.

 

[simonmet]

I have nothing productive to add, just wanted to say this is funny as hell.

How do they come up with this stuff! 🤣

 

[Bandaman]

There is literally nothing slow about Edge. This must be another browser you're talking about. I've also not had any of these issues. Disabling things has stayed disabled.

 

[BeatCrazy]

Honest question: why is this any different than Apple including/updating Safari with macOS?

 

[Bandaman]

Honest question: why is this any different than Apple including/updating Safari with macOS?

It's not. This is literally THE default browser that's going to be a part of Windows from now on.

 

[simonmet]

Honest question: why is this any different than Apple including/updating Safari with macOS?

It’s hot garbage compared to Safari. Apple doesn’t change literally everything about an app and not give you the choice of whether to use it or keep using the former one; or push the update so maliciously.

 

[Bandaman]

It’s hot garbage compared to Safari.

It really isn't.

 

[simonmet]

There is literally nothing slow about Edge. This must be another browser you're talking about. I've also not had any of these issues. Disabling things has stayed disabled.

If you’re referring to the former Edge I’d agree. The new one had poor scrolling performance for me, and I’m not the only one to have made that observation.

It really isn't.

It really is. 🤣

 

[Bandaman]

If you’re referring to the former Edge I’d agree. The new one had poor scrolling performance for me, and I’m not the only one to have made that observation.



It really is. 🤣

It's buttery smooth for me in macOS Catalina, iOS, and Windows 10.

 

[throAU]

Pushed a major (and terrible) new version of its (now Chromium-based) Edge browser through software update in a way that was almost forced or at least not at all clear what the update was or entailed.

What's your problem with the Chromium version of Edge? The old version was barely supported trash, the new version is essentially Chrome in a dress which is pretty much the de-facto web standard.

I hate Microsoft as much as the next guy, but Chrome-Edge is a good thing. I see none of the performance issues you raise.

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@Kcetech1. I'm glad you enjoy it, but who was being warned? I don't follow Microsoft news closely; nor should I have to to avoid being treated in this manner.

Unfortunately these are the terms of running Windows 10. Either deal with it or get off the train. I feel your pain, but it is what it is. This is the way Microsoft is moving forward.

Either macOS or Linux (if you want PC hardware) are more reasonable alternatives if you want control over the update process.

As above, warnings about this have been coming for months. If you care about advance notice and want to continue to run windows, sign up for their insiders mailing list.
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Apple doesn’t change literally everything about an app and not give you the choice of whether to use it or keep using the former one; or push the update so maliciously.

I want my cover-flow history view back in Safari, thanks...

 

[simonmet]

I’m getting off the train @throAU . As much and for as long as possible anyway. Yes, Windows is needed if you want AAA games (on PC), but I found myself not really playing them anyway. It’s true Macs aren’t really built for AAA gaming, but that’s ok by me because I prefer the other benefits. I also prefer indy games generally. In fact, of the 15 or so titles on my Steam wishlist, 11 have Mac versions.

You say “what is my problem with Chromium edge” but I literally mentioned 5 or 6 problems in the original post of this thread! Granted some of them relate to the forced update, but that’s beside the point. I can easily have come up with or posted many more just from my brief and painful experience with it.

You also say the old Edge was “barely supported” but I literally never encountered a website that didn’t work perfectly and flawlessly.

I didn’t expect to find so many hardcore Windows defenders in an Apple forum. If you read my comment history before this thread, you’ll see I’ve been one of the most concerned and vocal about the loss of Windows compatibility with Apple switching to ARM, but now: not so much. We’ll see if that changes. At least I’ve still got the option, but damn if I had the option to go back to the old Edge I would. Hopefully the recent “2004” Windows ISO doesn’t yet include it.

 

[Bandaman]

Hopefully the recent “2004” Windows ISO doesn’t yet include it.

It's included by default.

 

[throAU]

It's included by default.

That.

The old Edge codebase has been EOL'd and will see no further development/support.

It was never required for legacy compatibility, so it is basically removed moving forwards.

You also say the old Edge was “barely supported” but I literally never encountered a website that didn’t work perfectly and flawlessly.

Your performance problems sound like they are local to your machine, I'd suggest you look into that if you want a resolution; Windows 10 isn't the problem in this specific instance.

I'm no windows defender by any means, but it is what it is.

Microsoft have basically turned into an abusive spouse as far as their user base goes, and yeah your choices are either leave or put up with it.

You can run a number of AAA games on linux if you're willing to wait for bleeding edge people to sort out some of the kinks, I've been playing Borderlands 3 for the past few months under linux for example (My house is Windows free outside of VMs for work).

check out protondb.com - the situation on linux for AAA gaming is far better than macOS.

 

[nickdalzell1]

I quite like the new Edge. The old one was slow, didn't support Adblock at all, and the icon just resembled Internet Explorer's.

If anyone should be upset, it's that fact that Internet Explorer 9.0 still exists in Windows 10, and even supports modern sites (since no site seems to declare IE as 'evil' anymore and doesn't obsolete it)

New Edge not just supports Adblock, it also supports gesture navigation via touchpad just like on a Mac running Safari. I have wished for Win10 to offer such gesture controls since it released. It was one vital thing missing on Windows when I went from my Mac to PC (and scrolling was reversed--now fixed)

Granted my new HP 15c isn't a Mac, it costs literally 1/3 the cost of one, but it has an SSD, AMD Ryzen 5, Vega graphics and 8GB of RAM. I have also disabled 'auto update' (via my router and in the registry-it's not hard folks!) so it was MY CHOICE to try the new Edge and I love it personally. Equally on par with Safari on Catalina for me.

BTW With Windows update deleted (it's not just turned off since it just turns back on, I've actually taken ownership of all Windows folders and deleted the *.EXE files involved with it) I use the update assistant app to do any updates after exhaustive research and deciding if I even need anything it offers. The Update Assistant also allows rollback of an update should it break anything or do any unnecessary change.

Changing the permissions of C:\Windows and Windows\system32 isn't hard. A search and you find tons of articles describing how you take ownership of folders/files. The ones you want to delete are:

1. Tasksch.exe
2. wupdate.exe
3. updatenotifier.exe

Unlike Windows XP and 2000, those files apparently no longer spawn back from the system file checker upon deletion--they stay deleted. Windows will show that it failed to check for updates in settings, but while it claims 'it will try again at a later time' it can't. The files are gone. Make sure you remove any permissions from 'TrustedInstaller' 'System' and anything other than 'Administrators'. Remove 'everyone' completely as system level crap can pose as 'everyone'. Do the same for 'users'.

There's some registry magic for even tighter control and allowing 'un-disable-able' services to be turned off and disabled and bypasses the 'the parameter is incorrect' errors. This is something I learned a lot from when trying to max performance from gaming PCs. I also disabled Windows Defender since it chews so much CPU and hogs one of my GPU cores.

And yes, while far more difficult, you CAN disable Cortana.

If you don't like messing with system files you can block them at your router--the updates that is. Assuming you're using a Netgear router (mine's a NightHawk AC1900) you log into the IP address in a browser that's your default gateway (mine's 10.0.0.1) and enter 'admin' as username and your Wifi password as 'password'. Go to the 'advanced' tab, and then click 'security' on the left side. Then on the sub-menu, click 'block sites'. Type these into the keyword/domain window

Windowsupdate.com
Windowsupdate.microsoft.com
microsoft.com (blocks Bing and feed from working BTW)
microsoftupdate.com
update.com
updates
system updates
windows
update
updater
updated
update available (these last few are just a precaution just in case!)

Click 'allow all' in the top part, there's three radio buttons. Then click 'save'. Don't worry the router doesn't have to restart. Then if you even try to do a search or load any site with the above words listed, it shows 'blocked by netgear firewall' instead of loading. This also causes any background update service to fail since it's unable to lookup the site to grab updates from. So if you love old Edge so much, do that!

 

[Shirasaki]

Apple doesn’t change literally everything about an app and not give you the choice of whether to use it or keep using the former one; or push the update so maliciously.

Well.... my safari just got updated, silently, to a version that extension is completely removed. RIP uBlock Origin, literally the most powerful adblocker to date. And I don’t believe I have any option to “roll back update”. Apple never provide any official feature to delete updates. At least Microsoft Windows can do so to an extent.

Either macOS or Linux (if you want PC hardware) are more reasonable alternatives if you want control over the update process.

Linux is going to be the only operating system that users can truly fully control how and when updates are delivered. Both Microsoft Windows and Apple macOS will gradually disable user side control of update delivery, in an attempt to “increase security and protect from virus etc” which I consider it bs.

Hopefully the recent “2004” Windows ISO doesn’t yet include it.

I hope so, cause if I upgrade, it will be 3-4 years later at the very least. I’m going to stick with 1909 for as long as possible.

PS: to OP, as for warning, I just received an email from Microsoft saying education users should download a simple tool to block Microsoft Edge being updated to newer version before 30 July 2020. It also includes an administrative template so system administrators can apply group policy changes to all managed machines. I downloaded it and applied it. To be fair, Microsoft is doing ok in terms of warning users this upcoming change.

 

[MacDaddyPanda]

I tried out Edge Chrome when it was still beta and the final released versions I still have it installed, but I don't use it. But I didn't see those issues. Or I didn't see them as irreversible. But I use Brave as my default in Windows and MacOS. I tried Edge Chrome in both Windows and MacOS. Felt more or less the same as Chrome. No slower no faster. I have read others having some of the issues you stated OP. So that would be irksome. I wonder if it's because I had it already installed and already set it up as not default that it didn't take over from an update.

 

[throAU]

Linux is going to be the only operating system that users can truly fully control how and when updates are delivered. Both Microsoft Windows and Apple macOS will gradually disable user side control of update delivery, in an attempt to “increase security and protect from virus etc” which I consider it bs.

That's speculation, at the moment macOS updates are entirely opt-in. ergo, if you want control over updates today, macOS is an option (don't opt in today and you won't get updated).

Windows 10 has a fairly predictable support schedule - 18 months. If you're running 1909, then expect to be force upgraded around March-April 2021 or so.

 

[BigMcGuire]

I never really liked Firefox. Just couldn't get used to it. So I used Chrome back in the day, went with Brave when I started being a bit more conscious about my privacy. When Edge was announced I was pretty happy - the betas weren't all that great but eventually they got the syncing right and ... it works really well. I use it heavily on my work Windows PC and it works as good if not better than Brave. The syncing alone makes it awesome - and I can use 1Password as the password manager.

I still prefer Safari.

 

[nickdalzell1]

Also FYI the 'new' Edge also supports native Adblock on Android as well. That and Samsung's Internet browser. Odd world where Microsoft is a better option than Google on an OS Developed by, well, Google...

Thanks to the extension support and the updated gesture controls, I oftentimes forget I'm not using a Mac when I'm using my HP PC because I got them both sorta configured the same way (same apps, dock/taskbar layout roughly the same).

 

[Shirasaki]

That's speculation, at the moment macOS updates are entirely opt-in. ergo, if you want control over updates today, macOS is an option (don't opt in today and you won't get updated).

Windows 10 has a fairly predictable support schedule - 18 months. If you're running 1909, then expect to be force upgraded around March-April 2021 or so.

Mine is Windows 10 enterprise so the support is 30 months for September release.
I am considering migrating to LTSB to get up to 10 years of security updates.