New Graphics Card for Cinema 4D and Adobe CC - Which One?

Discussion in 'Mac Pro' started by kittonian, May 12, 2015.

  1. kittonian macrumors member

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    Aug 4, 2008
    #1
    Like others, we are experiencing problems with Yosemite and the ATI video cards with C4D and OpenGL. Right now we are still using GT 120 and Radeon 4870 cards in our Mac Pro machines, and need to find a solution that will allow us to show shadows in the viewports without causing the whole system to take a dive. Right now, as long as we don't enable extra things such as shadows in the viewport, all is well.

    On top of that, we just purchased a few LG 34UM95 ultra-wide monitors and want to get all that we can out of them.

    In looking at the discontinued GTX 680 Mac edition cards they seem to support the higher resolutions required but top out at OpenGL 3.x. The current production Quadro 4000 and K5000 cards don't list the higher resolutions as supported and also seem to top out at OpenGL 3.x.

    Since Mavericks, OS X has had OpenGL 4.x support but I'm not even sure that C4D uses anything above OpenGL 2.x as Maxon's website states most any video cards that support OpenGL 2.x+ on their system requirements page.

    We are not using VRay or any 3rd party render engine that takes advantage of GPU processing at this time, though we may in the future if it becomes necessary, so we'd like to be prepared with whatever cards we invest in. We do use Adobe's CC suite including After Effects which I believe takes advantage of CUDA. As our machines do not have Thunderbolt we will be using the Display Port to connect the monitors.

    We are running Mac Pro 5,1 (2009 4,1 machines flashed to the 5,1 firmware) with dual 6-core Westmere processors and 32GB of 1333mhz RAM on Yosemite 10.10.3 with the latest C4D R16 revision.

    Thanks!
     
  2. philliplakis, May 12, 2015
    Last edited: May 12, 2015

    philliplakis macrumors member

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    #2


    If your using it as your main workstation i can recommend Quadro's I've tried the GTX cards as display cards but nothing beats a Quadro for stability and viewport fluidness. GTX cards will give you the processing power you require for rendering but long term? Get a quadro...
    Macvidcards is the guy you need,
    I just had him make me a K4200 for my Mac especially for C4D and AutoCAD.


    Edit:
    Also its a single slot card only require 1 power cable, so you could easily run a GTX 970 in there along side for its raw CUDA power
     
  3. kittonian thread starter macrumors member

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    #3
    Interesting. I've heard the 680 beats the Quadro hands down in terms of power and stability. Since you are running C4D and AutoCAD (exactly what we are running) I'm very glad you responded.

    Viewport stability is of the utmost concern but I also need it to support the high resolution of these new 34UM95 LG monitors we purchased over the display port.

    As I mentioned, we are not using GPU rendering so that's not a big concern at this point. C4D is all processor rendering as you know, and we aren't using 3rd party rendering software like VRay at this time. R16's new engine has proven to be pretty amazing in terms of photo realism, so we're sticking with that, at least for now.
     
  4. philliplakis macrumors member

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    #4
    A 680 will beat the K5000 in power but def not in stability... Quadros are built for stability thats there purpose, there workstation cards. Not to mention they hold there value over GTX cards.

    The K4200 is more powerful than the K5000 hence why i went for it, I also run a 780 in my machine and i feel CAD is more fluid now with the Quadro.

    I run dual 4k screen @ 60hz with the Quadro so you can run 2 of the 34UM95 from it.
     
  5. TzunamiOSX, May 12, 2015
    Last edited: May 12, 2015

    TzunamiOSX macrumors regular

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    #5
    A Quadro is wasting money on Mac, because you dont have special certified drivers like on Windows.

    A Quadro is useful if you need ECC or a good double precision, but C4D and CC don't use this funktions.
     
  6. philliplakis macrumors member

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    #6
    AutoCAD has inbuilt drivers to utilize Quadro's..

    ECC is enabled on a MAC.

    Double precision is for Scientific computation so not relevant in our case for CAD.
     
  7. TzunamiOSX, May 13, 2015
    Last edited: May 13, 2015

    TzunamiOSX macrumors regular

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    #7
    But kittonian is not using AutoCAD, he is using C4D and Adobe CC, so a Quadro offers no advantages.

    For Adobe AE 3D rendering, you need a fast CUDA card like the Titan X. For C4D without plugins you can get any GPU (more graphic memory helps on great scenes).
     
  8. philliplakis macrumors member

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    #8
    I also will guarantee the K4200 has better viewport than a 680 on C4D from first hand experience over any paper benchmark....
     
  9. TzunamiOSX, May 13, 2015
    Last edited: May 13, 2015

    TzunamiOSX macrumors regular

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    #9
    overlook this, sorry.

    Also better than your 780 6G? Perhaps the 2 GB Memory are the problem, or do you have a 680 4G?
     
  10. philliplakis macrumors member

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    #10
    Hmm not in C4D, but in CAD i have a more fluid viewport over the 780.
    Both trump the 680 hands down...
    Vram on 2 4k screens is about 500mb for viewport on C4D, i can see that through Octane.
     
  11. kittonian thread starter macrumors member

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    #11
    OK, so it looks like we're nailing it down to a few cards based on the responses I'm reading.

    GTX 980 4GB (faster speeds, 5K display support)
    GTX 780 6GB (more memory, 4K display support)
    Quadro K4200 (more stable but slower?)

    We're not doing much 3D drafting in AutoCAD, mostly just 2D layouts/blueprints. I really haven't noticed a hiccup on the GT120 or 4870 cards we currently have, so "speeding up the AutoCAD viewport" isn't of big concern.

    The big thing for us is C4D. That is our primary application and we do 80% of our work in C4D. The rest is divided up between AutoCAD and Adobe CC applications.
     
  12. MacVidCards Suspended

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    #12
    I just want to add in that I tested the K4200, it ran 5K just fine. You won't be playing Crysis on it but it does 5K 60Hz which even a Titan Black can't do.

    Whenever someone needs a specific app to work with a GPU I recommend going to Creative Cow or Adobe or Liftgammagain or reduser. Whichever "Pro" forum caters to their specific needs.

    Also helpful if you find a Barefeats test that has your application.
     
  13. kittonian thread starter macrumors member

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    #13
    From everything I've researched the GTX 980 (4GB) seems to be the best option, giving me the power and speed, as well as good stability. I've tried e-mailing your company and pm'ing you directly but have yet to receive a response.

    As we will need a couple of these cards I wanted to speak with you directly before blindly ordering off your website. There are a few questions I need answered and when spending this kind of money, I find it's better if there's some sort of direct communication.

    I have left my direct line in both the e-mail and the pm. I look forward to hearing from you. Thanks!
     
  14. kittonian thread starter macrumors member

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    #14
    Someone on c4dcafe brought up an interesting point supporting the initial response in this thread. They said that there are potential issues with C4D R16 and the GTX drivers where NVidia won't even acknowledge the issues.

    It was said that buying a Quadro is a much better bet due to it being a "professional workstation" graphics card over the GTX being a "consumer gaming level" card.

    Can anyone confirm and/or support this argument?
     
  15. MacVidCards Suspended

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    #15
    Hi, we will get in touch via email.

    I have found that the vast majority of tech support ends up being "hold on, I'll email you a link" sort of stuff.

    Also, any and all misunderstandings over meaning or perceived content can be avoided when everything is in black and white to be reviewed.

    We are not intimately acquainted with the software the runs on our cards. We verify that the cards run and complete a variety of benchmarks without screen artifacts.

    That is why i recommend chatting with actual Pros in the field. There are some apps that get no use whatsoever out of the GPU and if that is what you use, you are better off spending money on better/faster/more core versions.

    If you use CUDA or OpenCl or OpenGl then a GPU can speed things up. In addition to the Pro sites, Barefeats runs a variety of tests. If you know of a way to test your specific app, you can ask him to include it in future tests. I can't say that he will, but he likes finding new ways to gauge performance, especially when it can be measured in increased productivity.
     
  16. kittonian thread starter macrumors member

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    #16
    I am well aware of all of that and have done my research extensively. I am talking about spending quite a bit of money with your company and would like to speak to someone, rather than just e-mailing back and forth.
     
  17. kittonian thread starter macrumors member

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    #17
    OK, finally got a straight answer from Maxon in Germany. While I still can't confirm that the GTX cards have current issues with C4D R16, the two main reasons to go with a Quadro over a GTX are:

    1. Drivers are more stable
    2. You can use the Stereoscopic viewports

    As stability is of the utmost concern it looks like I have to forget about the GTX cards and spend a bit more for the Quadro.

    Seeing as how I have received no direct response from MacVidCards (phone or e-mail) and NVidia's only full fledged Mac offering is the K5000, I guess that's what we're going to be investing in. Quite a bit more than I was hoping to spend, but perhaps we'll be lucky in that we'll only need to spend it once.

    Fingers crossed.
     
  18. philliplakis macrumors member

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    #18

    Just wait til they contact, you'll be paying for a better card at a better price.
     
  19. kittonian, May 14, 2015
    Last edited: May 14, 2015

    kittonian thread starter macrumors member

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    #19
    Wish that was the case. Unfortunately I finally received an e-mail at 3am my time (saw it this morning when I came in) that simply said, we see you are going with the K5000, unfortunately we do not have that card in stock, please let us know if we can help you in the future.

    Now, a few things with that:

    1. Any company that asks you to spend large dollar amounts with them should be willing to have a phone call.

    2. I opted to go with the K5000 Mac Edition because MacVidCards was uncommunicative and through my own research the Quadro series was a far better solution than a GTX series.

    3. Why on earth would I need MacVidCards when I stated I was going to purchase the K5000 Mac Edition. It doesn't need modding/flashing, it's already made for the Mac.

    I honestly wish MacVidCards was a bit more professional and was willing to have a conversation. I don't really want to spend $1600+ for each video card. I was going to speak with them about flashing a K4200 just like what you did, which would potentially get me 2 cards for the price of a single K5000.

    As a company we cannot blindly spend money without doing a lot of research and really knowing who we're dealing with. There were some specific concerns I had that I wanted to address with MacVidCards before purchasing, as well as wanting to speak with them to get an overall feeling of what to expect when dealing with their company. Should anything go wrong with the card we purchase from them, I need to know there is a company standing behind that purchase.

    **UPDATE**

    Chris from MacVidCards e-mailed a nice response at 3:20pm my time today. Unfortunately it got tagged as SPAM so I didn't see it until right now. I still would've liked a phone call as waiting for an e-mail response for a couple days, only to still have questions is a waste of time. This could all be handled in a 10 minute call.
     
  20. philliplakis macrumors member

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    #20
    Look there not going to get on there knees for you.
    The money your spending is not with them, your spending it on the manufacture ei. PNY he takes a small fee in compared to the cost of the card to convert it.
    There not a Multi national company, they are 2 guys working on keeping the cMP alive. And I'm pretty sure they both work real jobs as I don't think this is some sort of retirement plan..
    Your new here, he is the most active guy on the forum.
    Constantly helping people having trouble with cards that are not his...

    So once again the bulk of the money you are spending is not with MVC... I bought my PNY K4200 sent it to him paid him a fee and he sent it back to me... In compared to the card price the fee is minimal so before you think he is getting rich of your purchase he isn't!!!!

    There are plenty of members here who will +1 MVC.
     
  21. MacVidCards, May 14, 2015
    Last edited: May 14, 2015

    MacVidCards Suspended

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    #21
    Hi,

    Sorry you aren''t pleased with our communications.

    You were in line to get an email, but seemed to be in a hurry. We get more than 50 emails a day, they get answered in order received, large purchasers don't get moved to front.

    Before we answered I saw that you had spoken to Maxon and made a decision. I have no real experience with C4D and would default to their judgement.

    We could probably flash any of the "K" Quadro series, but have only tried with K4200 as someone ordered it. Most Mac benchmarks show GeForce cards to be much faster, but if your app vendor said get a Quadro, then I would defer to them.

    We don't do phone calls for any sort of tech support or questions. It is far too easy to end up in a "He said, he said" situation where "You said it could do 4K" is followed by "I said it could do SST 4K" "you never mentioned SST" "I distinctly recall saying SST was covered and not MST"

    Much better to have EVERYTHING in writing. No ambiguities, nothing forgotten. Every word between both parties able to be referenced. Internet links easy to check, etc.
     
  22. kittonian thread starter macrumors member

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    Aug 4, 2008
    #22
    A simple phone call is not asking anyone to "get on their knees" and I never said anyone was getting rich. I said before "we" spend thousands of dollars with a company, we need to know who we're dealing with.

    Btw, I've been a member here since 2008. Not new. Just don't post a lot.

    ------

    MVC:

    Yes, I posted in the Netkas forum to see if there was a publicly available ROM so I could do that flash myself. So what? I've been in the tech sector for almost 20 years now, and guess what? Not only have I owned a tech company for that entire time, I also used to work for Apple.

    Many people pay a lot of money to have their 2009 machines flashed to 5,1 models and get their CPUs upgraded. I do it myself in house. That's not to say that you shouldn't be paid for your work, you absolutely should, but I am not afraid to dive in and get my hands dirty. If I can save myself over $1k I'll do that every time.

    Now, obviously no one responded to my post and I removed it once I decided to go Quadro instead of GTX, but it doesn't really matter because I'll post wherever I please. Once I found that what you do is specific to your company (though there is a company in the UK doing the same thing) and there is no publicly available EFI or instructions to do this yourself, I was hoping to speak to you.
     
  23. MacVidCards Suspended

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    #23
    He He, that is good for a laugh. The "company in the UK", would it be:

    http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1814378

    They created a full cast of characters here trying to manipulate reality. They got caught. They sell hacked and broken versions of our stuff.

    There is one and only one source of new Mac EFI cards at this point.

    And I really do think that K5000 is good choice if that is what your software vendor suggested.
     
  24. kittonian thread starter macrumors member

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    #24
    Actually I had no idea they were here on MR, or if these are the same people. I found a UK seller on eBay and that's who I was mentioning. Perhaps they are the same people, I don't know.
     

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