new iMac changes??

[kwajaln]

I am not intenionally waiting to buy an iMac until the next upgrade comes out, but since I am waiting until I am back in the States to make the purchase it will probably work out that way. I am curious what you all think is in store for the next update of the iMac: Firewire 800? Tiger? Better graphics card? Faster DVD burner? The last time I was at an Apple store, in December, one of the employees told me "probably not" on most of those things (except Tiger) mainly because it would bridge the gap too much between the iMac and the PowerMac. Any thoughts? Thanks in advance, of course!

I started thinking about this recently when I was considering buying an iMac on my next vacation to the States in April, mainly for my wife's benefit.

 

[Blue Velvet]

I'm unsure of your location, but be aware that other people have reported countries voltage issues with the iMac particularly in this thread so if you're thinking of buying a US machine, then I thnk they only run on 110-120 volts...

I think you may see bigger hard-drives, Tiger (natch), possibly better burners, and (slim chance) more base RAM. Just guessing, though...

 

[mrgreen4242]

Well, untill something faster than Firewire 800 is available, I don't think any of the non Power* line machines will get 800, like the Apple employee said it would decrease the difference between the PM and iMac, hurting sales of the more expensive machines.

What I expect in the next iMac... Hmm... switch to 2ghz and 2.3ghz maybe. Depends on where the PMs are then. If they PMs are lagging, we may only see 1.8ghz on the low end and 2ghz on the high end. (I'm betting on 2 and 2.3ghz, myself). Dual layer DVD burners maybe, or at least dual layer in the high end machine, and a faster single layer in the middle.

The video subsystem will be changed. Either a whole new GPU or they will stick with the 5200ultra for one more revision but go with 128mb VRAM. WHile I am hoping for a whole new GPU, I'm guessing the 5200ultra 128mb will be around for next revision, and they will change it for Rev C.

There may be a 23" model introduced at some point, but probably not the next revision, and maybe never. Who knows, though. (I'm guessing that it will be a Rev. C change, and will coincide with a new GPU). Im not sure the HDs will be changed at all. 80gb is pretty good for most iMac users, and I'm not sure I would see the point in raising the base to higher than that when the BTO options are there. I spose they COULD go to 160gb on the middle machine as well as the high-end, but...

They could also change vendors for the 17" screens, to go to a better specced display unit, but I think it's fine now, so why mess with it? (Others would disagree, I know).

I think it all depends on WHEN they upgrade the iMac line. If they do it soon it may be a smallish bump (1.6->1.8, 1.8->2.0, more VRAM, small price drop?). If they wait for Tiger to do it then it will be significant (1.6-2.0, 1.8-2.3, new GPU/more VRAM, 23" model introduced, dual layer burners, etc).

I'm hoping for a small upgrade soon, like in the next 3 weeks ;-) . I am going to be sadly disapointed, I know... But a small upgrade now would work well with another upgrade at teh Tiger release, so I can hope.

Rob

 

[Lacero]

I'd say Firewire 800, DL Superdrives, Gigabit ethernet and larger HDs will be in the next iMac revision. Hardly think it will ever compete with the PowerMacs until it had dual G5s, PCI-X expandability, and room for extra HDs.

 

[jxyama]

firewire 800 and gigabit ethernet... do you actually use that? do you think most of the target consumer for iMac will use that? probably not. so i doubt they will be included to bump the iMac prices up and/or cannibalize the powermac sales.

most likely, a speed bump or a price drop. iMacs are still "fresh." i don't expect a huge update only because there are other products that desparately need to be updated.

 

[mrgreen4242]

firewire 800 and gigabit ethernet... do you actually use that? do you think most of the target consumer for iMac will use that? probably not. so i doubt they will be included to bump the iMac prices up and/or cannibalize the powermac sales.

most likely, a speed bump or a price drop. iMacs are still "fresh." i don't expect a huge update only because there are other products that desparately need to be updated.

Exaclty... anything they can 'drop in place' upgrade, like a new CPU and (hopefully) VRAM modules, onto the exsisting motherboard/midplace/whatever you want to call it, will get refreshed this time around, with a "major" overhaul early next year...

Just out of curiousity, what are people using FW800 for? Can external drives sustain that kind of R/W speed? I suppose if you have several devices that you want to daisy chain off a single FW port it would be helpfull, but 2 FW400 and also 2 (available) USB2 ports seem like enough for MOST people...

For some reason I can see Steve introing a 23" iMac 2.5ghz at next years MWSF.

Rob

 

[jimbo999]

...and (slim chance) more base RAM. Just guessing, though...

Slim chance? How about "not gonna happen." As long as the base power mac is shipping with 256 megs, the iMac will continue with 256 as well.

 

[mrgreen4242]

Slim chance? How about "not gonna happen." As long as the base power mac is shipping with 256 megs, the iMac will continue with 256 as well.

At least it's not 128mb still! The iMacs I have used with the base 256mb of RAM actually ran suprisingly well for day to day activites. Sure WE'D all like to see more RAM offered for free, but for most users, especially consumer level people who iMacs are targeted at, could probably do well with 256mb for the first 4 or 6 months before they add more, extending the lifetime of their machine.

Unless they are using GarageBand or iMovie or something 256mb is pretty adequate.

Rob

 

[kwajaln]

Thanks for the replies, all! Blue Velvet, the voltage is not a concern since when I purchase the iMac it will be used in the US. I am an American currently working in Kuwait, but will be back for a vacation in April and then for good in July. I am just wondering if I should cinsider getting the iMac in April, so my wife can use it before my return in July. If a revision is out by then I certainly will, but if not, I have some thinking to do on that!

 

[SteveZissou]

from my own personal experience the only thing I can see them changing is the Superdrive and obviously a slight speed bump.
I just got a 20" on Friday and I have been playing around with it all weekend and the only thing I can even slightly complain about is the Superdrive. It is SLOWWWWW, not just burning but even on just reading it takes quite a while for a disc once inserted to be read. I can't understand why in today's day and age that apple insists on installing parts that are a year+ behind the technology, thank god I have an external 16X DVD burner.

 

[Dont Hurt Me]

I think the imac is a nice machine except for its weak 64video. Im hoping for 2.0 G5 20 "128MB 6200 or better video and Tiger then i may jump back into using a Mac everyday. There doesnt seem to be much performance difference at the moment between a imac and minimac and im sure Apple has some plans for that. G5 bump and a modern GPU should do that so i think the next revB should be a very solid offering when combined with Tiger. I may sell my Alienware if that happens.

 

[vollspacken]

I may sell my Alienware if that happens.

Dont Hurt Me selling his PC???

I will remind you

vSpacken

 

[intrepkid21]

I think the imac is a nice machine except for its weak 64video. Im hoping for 2.0 G5 20 "128MB 6200 or better video and Tiger then i may jump back into using a Mac everyday. There doesnt seem to be much performance difference at the moment between a imac and minimac and im sure Apple has some plans for that. G5 bump and a modern GPU should do that so i think the next revB should be a very solid offering when combined with Tiger. I may sell my Alienware if that happens.

I'm not sure how you can mistake the performance gap betweem an iMac G5 and a Mac Mini G4...try running garageband or something.

 

[aswitcher]

Personally I am hoping for an iMac update soon - like now....but I think it could be a while before it happens unless of course they want to put some more performance distance between it and the Mac Mini.

Key things I want to see in the iMac Rev B

> 128 meg graphics card option to give it real legs to last 5 years or so. This is key for me and the thing that was to my mind most criticised in reviews I read etc. 128 standard on the high end 20" makes sense to me given its probably cheaper to bump it up than offer a BTO with all those inventory hassles and delays.

> 512MB RAM single chip/stick as standard...at least on the 20". For obvious reasons.

> Speed bump to 2Ghz or more for the high end (FSB upgrade as well). With the new eMac highly rumoured to be G5 then I think the iMac needs to advance on to keep the gap.

> Faster DVD burner / maybe a dual layer burner option...maybe even a Blue Ray burner option! Apple are market leaders in new tech afterall. Year of High Def and big deals with Sony. Makes sense.

> Gigabite ethernet option/standard even, would be "nice"...not sure what cost impact that would have though but its go to happen soonish anyway.

> BlueTooth as standard (option to remove/disable)...again, something thats likely to happen anyway, and such an addition is not that expensive and would probably save hassles of BTO etc saving money anyway. I wonder how many iMacs got BT...

2c

 

[andiwm2003]

Key things I want to see in the iMac Rev B

> 128 meg graphics card option to give it real legs to last 5 years or so. This is key for me and the thing that was to my mind most criticised in reviews I read etc. 128 standard on the high end 20" makes sense to me given its probably cheaper to bump it up than offer a BTO with all those inventory hassles and delays.

> 512MB RAM single chip/stick as standard...at least on the 20". For obvious reasons.

> Speed bump to 2Ghz or more for the high end (FSB upgrade as well). With the new eMac highly rumoured to be G5 then I think the iMac needs to advance on to keep the gap.

> Faster DVD burner / maybe a dual layer burner option...maybe even a Blue Ray burner option! Apple are market leaders in new tech afterall. Year of High Def and big deals with Sony. Makes sense.

> Gigabite ethernet option/standard even, would be "nice"...not sure what cost impact that would have though but its go to happen soonish anyway.

> BlueTooth as standard (option to remove/disable)...again, something thats likely to happen anyway, and such an addition is not that expensive and would probably save hassles of BTO etc saving money anyway. I wonder how many iMacs got BT...

2c

why is 128 vram so important? does it make the graphics faster or does it help for core in tiger? but please a faster gpu and screen spanning.

512 ram should be on every machine that is for switchers or consumers. we tend to just pick up a machine in the store and don't want to order extra ram and install it.

speed bump to 2.3 would be necessary to speed things up. i don't care about the fsb so much. don't believe it makes that much a difference anyway (am i wrong here?).

please bluetooth 2.0 as standard or as bundle with keyboard/mouse. also airport because i want to go to the apple store, buy the machine and take it home.

faster dvd would be great if apple wants to be the iLife company.

please, please, please a video in so that i can use the imac as second monitor. would also allow the machine be used as monitor for a switchers gaming PC.

right now the imac g5 1.8 gig is about 20% faster than a PB 1.5 gig. thats not enough to convince me to buy an imac.

well by 2007 i might get all that..........

 

[maya]

Key things I want to see in the iMac Rev B

> 128 meg graphics card option to give it real legs to last 5 years or so. This is key for me and the thing that was to my mind most criticised in reviews I read etc. 128 standard on the high end 20" makes sense to me given its probably cheaper to bump it up than offer a BTO with all those inventory hassles and delays.

Not going to happen the iMac G5 rev B will still have 64MB of GPU ram.

> 512MB RAM single chip/stick as standard...at least on the 20". For obvious reasons.

Possible, however I don't see it happening unless the base PMG5 has 512Mb of ram. Ram is a cash cow for Apple, yeah the knowledged one one buy ram from Apple however, many do not want to hassle with the process later.

> Speed bump to 2Ghz or more for the high end (FSB upgrade as well). With the new eMac highly rumoured to be G5 then I think the iMac needs to advance on to keep the gap.

speed bump to 2GHz is very true along with a slightly faster FSB to match the 2GHz processor increase.

> Faster DVD burner / maybe a dual layer burner option...maybe even a Blue Ray burner option! Apple are market leaders in new tech afterall. Year of High Def and big deals with Sony. Makes sense.

Yes, an 8x burner is very possible, a dual layer option is also possible. Since iDVD now supports dual layer support so I do not find this hard to believe.

> Gigabite ethernet option/standard even, would be "nice"...not sure what cost impact that would have though but its go to happen soonish anyway.

Will not happen, even though its cheap now, how many people will actually use or need it. Then again if it happens it will not surprise me.

> BlueTooth as standard (option to remove/disable)...again, something thats likely to happen anyway, and such an addition is not that expensive and would probably save hassles of BTO etc saving money anyway. I wonder how many iMacs got BT...

BlueTooth as a standard, this is an iffy since it could boost sales of BT keyboard and mouse, though its not really needed.

 

[miloblithe]

I agree with those who predict a modest jump. I like the idea of 128megs of video RAM, and agree it would be an option at best. 1.8Ghz and 2.0Ghz jumps, not much else.

 

[aswitcher]

why is 128 vram so important? does it make the graphics faster or does it help for core in tiger? but please a faster gpu and screen spanning.

Core image and Core video will draw heavily on VRAM, and the more you have and the better it is, the faster things should go for ALL image apps, from eye candy to HD video working iirc.

Also it will help those of us who do like to game actually get good detail and framerates on high end games.

512 ram should be on every machine that is for switchers or consumers. we tend to just pick up a machine in the store and don't want to order extra ram and install it.

speed bump to 2.3 would be necessary to speed things up. i don't care about the fsb so much. don't believe it makes that much a difference anyway (am i wrong here?).

Not an expert but yes, FSB effects the over all speed, which is why the G4 low FSB is considered the primary constraint to the machines overall performance.

 

[aswitcher]

=mayaNot going to happen the iMac G5 rev B will still have 64MB of GPU ram.

Well in the year of High Defintion Video and Tiger (Core Image/Video) I have a little more hope that Apple will offer it as an option...especially after that little fiasco with Barefeats and game performance...

 

[CanadaRAM]

Just out of curiousity, what are people using FW800 for? Can external drives sustain that kind of R/W speed?

Oh yeah - FW800 has been tested by Barefeats and others to be much higher throughput than FW400, up to double with the same drive depending on the scenario - FW800 is approaching the IDE/100 bandwidth limit, whereas FW400 is much less.

That's why I don't think a FW400 external is going to be much improvement in speed over the 4200 RPM internal in a Mini.

Now a 5400 RPM laptop drive is a big performance jump over a 4200, 7200 RPM surprisingly not much jump over the 5400 RPM.

Thanks
Trevor
CanadaRAM.com

 

[mrgreen4242]

Well, I am going to order my iMac early next month, so I am hoping for an upgrade before then, but I really doubt it. If they come out with either new GPU or even more VRAM soon after I get mine I am going to be very sad.

On the upgraded superdrive issues, I am not sure if there will be any improvements. I have this feeling that the vertical orientation of the optical drive is going to be a speed limiter. The 4x SD is pretty adequate imho. I have a 2x DVD-RW right now, but I got a great deal on some 1x DVD-Rs and even at an hour per disc it's not all that bad. 15 minutes per disc would be excellent.

 

[andiwm2003]

Not an expert but yes, FSB effects the over all speed, which is why the G4 low FSB is considered the primary constraint to the machines overall performance.

the imac 1.8 has a 4x fsb compared to the pb 1.5. but the overall performance increase (see barefeats.com) to the pb is only between 0% and 30%. 20% of that are already the clockspeed. so even in the best case the FSB adds only 10% performance (i know that's a little over simplified). but still, the imac has much better overall specs but not much better overall performance. hence the fsb shouldn't be that important unless there is some other limiting factor (GPU, software not optimized for g5 or so). also the "old" dual G4 powermacs seem to do very good compared to the imac despite their fsb.

so how important is the fsb in real life (in machines with cache memory)?