New iPad Uses Retina Graphics When Running iPhone Apps

[SmileyDude]

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This would be valid if there wasn't already a way to do this if you are jailbroken. This fact invalidates a lot of your post.

Clearly there are tradeoffs involved -- the developers of an app for a jailbroken iPad don't have the same concerns as Apple would. It's relatively easy to make a "hack" that forces iPhone apps to run in Retina mode on an iPad without taking into account things like memory usage, CPU usage and image quality. If the jailbroken app doesn't work, the expectation was pretty low anyway -- so the user just uninstalls the app and goes on. If it happens to work well for the apps they use, great. But if Apple makes a decision and it impacts the way the device works in a negative way, everybody is going to suffer for it.

I think the way Arn suggested (i.e, having a setting that said force 2x mode only for iPhone apps) would be a better solution, but it's un-Apple like in some ways since Apple wants to simplify the user experience. If anything, Apple could've just forced the 2x mode always - even pixel doubled, I find it a better use of the iPad display. But they didn't, and I suspect that memory usage had a big role in that decision -- especially on the 1st gen iPad.

 

[mrboult]

The people whining about this not being implemented sooner by apple need to take stock of what they are saying.

If Apple had allowed iPhone retina Apps to display at their max resolution from the beginning, then it would have significantly lowered the number of developers who re-designed their Apps for iPad.

. . . Because their retina enabled iPhone apps would have 'been ok'.

And we might of seen the iPad App ecosystem looking more like Android, ie, scaled up phone apps/interface on a tablet.

I guess Apple now feel that the iPad and it's App ecosystem are mature enough for this to be less of a problem.

 

[Small White Car]

Apple is clearly not running retina apps on older iPads because some developers would say "looks good enough!" and may not make iPad-specific apps.

And while they would LOOK better, the buttons would be huge. Apple wants to avoid this and thus makes those apps look worse on purpose. The message: Make your apps universal!

It's done on purpose to punish developers and that's why it's not going to change.

And I agree with it. One if the biggest complaints about Android tablets is that many of their apps are not optimized for larger screens. Apple is smart to attack this problem aggressively.

EDIT - Mrboult beat me to it. Same message.

 

[Consultant]

Developers should not be lazy.

This is a clear example of apple's stupidity. Why is this not enabled on older iPads???

I'm glad you all voted this down. It makes perfect sense! It is totally not a valid complaint that all Apple has to do is slightly change some software, so that hundreds of thousands of apps can be useful, but they don't. I guess it is ok, 480x320 looks awesome on my 1024x768 display!

If Apple didn't enforce iPad apps, then you'll see the Android mess of nothing being optimized for tablets.

 

[nagromme]

Such are the ways of Apple. Tho I agree, it sounds stupid they don't do it.

Anyways, I never use iPhone apps in my iPad. They feel just wrong.

This decision by Apple was VITAL, and benefitted both them and we the users.

Without it, many (most?) developers would have taken the laziest approach and not created iPad-specific versions. By not giving developers a “sort of OK” easy way out, it forced them to give us REAL iPad versions or (practically) nothing.

Anyone who thinks we’d have all the same wealth of iPad-specific apps without that decision is ignoring the reality of human nature: enough developers would have taken the easy way out, and enough users would have tolerated it, to have harmed the new platform’s success and diminished its quality of apps on average.

Now it’s less important for two reasons: a) the iPad itself is now firmly established as a platform and b) there’s now one MORE reason to demand native iPad apps: iPad retina displays. Doubled iPhone retina apps are nice to have, but no longer nearly “good enough.” So Apple’s giving developers the easy way out at last. And for developers who never did bother supporting the iPad, their users have gotten a nice resolution boost. Ditto for developers who didn’t opt for Universal: users who already had the iPhone version and didn’t want to buy twice now have something a little better than they used to.

If Apple didn't enforce iPad apps, then you'll see the Android mess of nothing being optimized for tablets.

I will never get back the 3 minutes of my life I spent explaining what you explained in one sentence

 

[brucewayne]

I'm not well versed in display technologies, but could Apple have done this because of resolution limits on the original iPad and iPad 2 and not because of "stupidity" or wanting us to buy the next new iPad?

Hear me out. iPhone apps on the iPad/iPad 2 run at 480x320. With 2x, that becomes 960x640. This fits within the 1024x768 resolution in the original iPad/iPad 2.

Now that we have a Retina iPad which runs at 2048x1536, iPhone apps can run at native 960x640 and 2x which pushes it at 1920x1280.

I'm not sure what the Retinapad jailbreak app does, but does it 2x scale outside the resolution limits of the original iPad/iPad 2 (1024x768)? Or does it just run the iPhone apps at native 960x640 and not allow for 2x scaling?

It just runs the apps at 960x640 (so 1x), but since that almost fills the 1024x768 iPad display it doesn't need to scale anything up.

 

[Sonisk]

Epic winning!

 

[xawnia]

If they wouldn't:
regular iPhone App = 480x320px
2x on iPad 2 = 960x640px = 4pixels on iPad for 1 pixel on iPhone
2x on the new iPad = 1920x1280px = 16pixels on new iPad for 1 pixel on iPhone
Then all the "Retin-amaze" would really be lost!

I agree that scaled up iPhone Apps look awful on the iPad they should use the retina graphics for the iPad 2 too...

 

[janstett]

I've noticed this on the few iPhone apps I still use on the iPad (such as Google Voice and Radio Shift). At very least the text is now rendered nicely in high resolution, so now the question is why does this not happen on the older iPads?

 

[SmileyDude]

1. The ipod touch 4th gen has a 960x540 display, but only has 256mb ram. Everything works fine on that, so why not on the iPad?

The iPod touch doesn't have to worry about keeping a cellular connection running at all times -- there are some 1st gen iPads with 3G support and a larger memory footprint.

Also as a former 1st gen iPad owner, I would be wary of the "everything works fine claim". Safari was always clearing out tabs behind the scenes. It clearly was memory starved and I don't think that using more memory just to get better looking iPhone apps was really something that Apple want to do.

Now the iPad 2 is a different matter altogether.

2.Valid problem. How about they let the user choose with a setting or something. You could either set it to run like it currently does, in low res mode, or chose 960x540 mode and then disable the 1x/2x button. That is what retina pad does, and it works fine.

The new iPad does not disable the 1x/2x button. It's still there, it still works the same way it did on the old iPads.

3. But now they have spent the time. All they would need to do is port it to the ipad 1's ios firmware for the next update.

I think you are forgetting the part where the new iPad has 4x the pixels as the old iPads. In 1x mode (i.e, no scaling), the new iPad can display a retina enabled iPhone app centered, just the same way the old iPad could display a non-retina enabled iPhone app. In 2x mode, all three iPads double the iPhone app pixels to fill the screen.

To do what you want, Apple would either have to run the app in Retina mode all the time and scale down to 1x when the user chose it, or remove the option for 2x mode. That is a bigger change than simply back porting what's on the new iPad.

 

[MarkMS]

do a lot of people have many iPhone apps on their iPads? I have none, so wouldn't benefit from this feature. I don't know of many people who do as well.

I have a few, mostly games though. I bought a lot of them before I bought an iPad. So instead of paying $40ish to upgrade them all for the iPad, I just use the iPhone version. I don't game much on the iPad anyway. It's mainly a reading device and any little gaming I do is done on my iPhone whenever I'm on break or have some time to goof around.

 

[ncaissie]

What I don’t understand is how come the jailbreaking community can apply Retina support to make iPhone apps look better when applied but Apple uses 2X Zoom?

 

[Xenomorph]

Ugh... I had hoped iOS 5.x would enable "retina" apps on my iPad 2 when it came out. It has the same amount of RAM as the iPhone 4, yet runs much faster. How could it *not* support the same apps the older, slower device could?

Anyone that has used "RetinaPad" from Cydia knows that retina apps look and work great on the iPad 2. It's a shame Apple won't enable this natively.

 

[thekeyring]

Agreeing with everyone who thinks developers might not have made iPad-only apps had Retina iPhone apps scaled up nicely on iPad and iPad 2.

For the same reason the iPad doesn't display iPhone apps like so many Android tablets display phone-sized apps on a bigger screen, stretched out, like the difference between a smaller and larger PC screen.

 

[nickn]

Also as a former 1st gen iPad owner, I would be wary of the "everything works fine claim". Safari was always clearing out tabs behind the scenes. It clearly was memory starved and I don't think that using more memory just to get better looking iPhone apps was really something that Apple want to do.

But how would it use more memory? All it would need to do is load the retina iPhone app in 960X540, and have no scaling options. Run it pixel per pixel on the iPad screen, and have a small black border. If anything, it should use less RAM then a native iPad app. Native apps would be 1024x768 pixels, which is more pixels to drive then with iPhone retina apps.

To do what you want, Apple would either have to run the app in Retina mode all the time and scale down to 1x when the user chose it, or remove the option for 2x mode. That is a bigger change than simply back porting what's on the new iPad.

Fine, that is what I want. Have a setting with two choices. First would be to keep it the exact same as it is. Apps would load as 480X320, and the 1X/2X choice would be available. Setting 2, would be run apps pixel for pixel as a retina app, taking up almost the whole ipad screen. No up or down scaling would be needed.

 

[ncaissie]

This is a clear example of apple's stupidity. Why is this not enabled on older iPads???

I'm glad you all voted this down. It makes perfect sense! It is totally not a valid complaint that all Apple has to do is slightly change some software, so that hundreds of thousands of apps can be useful, but they don't. I guess it is ok, 480x320 looks awesome on my 1024x768 display!

I agree %100. That was my point. I posted before reading the comments.
Fanboys won’t complain so why fix it? Yet they wonder why people JB their iOS devices. (Which I have only done once and didn't re-apply it since the iOS 5 upgrade.)

 

[bjmach]

I noticed this on the speedtest app as well. It is iphone app but on iPad 2 it looks terrible and new iPad it looks really good

 

[Mr. Gates]

true, though does anyone actually use iPhone apps in 1x mode on their iPad? They should just have a "force 2x" mode and use Retina graphics.

arn

It might be nice for some games and use the rest of the screen for controls.(although nobody does that)

 

[SmileyDude]

But how would it use more memory? All it would need to do is load the retina iPhone app in 960X540, and have no scaling options. Run it pixel per pixel on the iPad screen, and have a small black border. If anything, it should use less RAM then a native iPad app. Native apps would be 1024x768 pixels, which is more pixels to drive then with iPhone retina apps.

Because for every image you see on the display, it has to be in memory somewhere. Having it stored on the filesystem doesn't impact RAM usage. But loading the 2x version instead of the 1x version does. Everything you see on an iOS display is backed in memory some where. The GPU takes those images and puts the together to produce what you see on the screen.

When you turn on 2x (pixel doubling, not Retina) mode for the iPhone apps, it doesn't take any additional memory. In that case, the GPU simply doubles the pixels before it sends them out to the display. There are no larger buffers to manage. All Apple's code has to do is change the rectangle size that the output goes to. It's literally a line of code (plus some additional code to wrap it in an animation block -- I'm simplifying here, but not by too much).

Fine, that is what I want. Have a setting with two choices. First would be to keep it the exact same as it is. Apps would load as 480X320, and the 1X/2X choice would be available. Setting 2, would be run apps pixel for pixel as a retina app, taking up almost the whole ipad screen. No up or down scaling would be needed.

I would suggest providing some feedback to Apple on it then -- you can either file a bug at http://radar.apple.com/ (requires at least a free developer program membership) or going to their feedback page at http://www.apple.com/feedback/.

 

[can.rules]

Too late!

Nice. And you guys find this out right after I pay 6.99 for Plants vs Zombies HD.

 

[BJMRamage]

it would be nice if 2x = same pixels on the iPad2 for iPhone apps.

I use a few iPhone only apps on the iPad. mainly i edit photos and post. i dislike the keyboard and the blurry app but hear the developers are working on an iPad version...

it would be nice, but i understand Apple for doing it that way.

 

[ncaissie]

But then again the Devs wouldn’t be able to charge a premium for the exact same game in the iPad version!

 

[nickn]

But then again the Devs wouldn’t be able to charge a premium for the exact same game in the iPad version!

And then Apple wouldn't be able to collect their 30% share.... No surprise why apple is not enabling the functionality for older generation devices.

 

[HarryPot]

This decision by Apple was VITAL, and benefitted both them and we the users.

Without it, many (most?) developers would have taken the laziest approach and not created iPad-specific versions. By not giving developers a “sort of OK” easy way out, it forced them to give us REAL iPad versions or (practically) nothing.

It might be a good reason, I don't deny it.

But as someone else said, devs just want way to charge more money. And most of the good devs would quickly embrace the new iPad and take advantage of the larger display.

I mean, I really don't care. As I said, I never use iPhone apps in the iPad. But if what you say is true, I think there would have been ways to achieve using the retina version of the app, and still make developers want to make iPad native apps.

 

[ncaissie]

There are a few reasons why the new iPad would do this and the old one doesn't. The most basic reason is that on Retina displays, apps run with Retina assets if available. Non-Retina displays never use Retina assets. In this regard, the new iPad is behaving exactly the same way as the old ones.

Second, if Apple did decide to use the Retina graphics for 2x mode on older iPads, it would introduce a few problems. One is that the original iPad is memory starved as it is. It came with 256MB and it wasn't until the iPhone 4 with it's Retina display did Apple bump up the RAM to 512MB. Second, should Apple use the Retina graphics for both the 1x and 2x modes? If they do, they are wasting CPU and battery to produce pixels that will only be scaled down. If they don't, they would need to come up with a way for apps to switch between 1x and 2x mode at runtime (they currently can't -- there is nothing in the API to even allow for that possibility). Also there is the issue of how the graphics would look when you take Retina graphics and scale them back down to 1x -- it's not nearly as nice as simply using the 1x graphics already.

One more thing to consider -- when the original iPad came out, there were no Retina display devices. All iPhone apps were 1x apps. The pixel doubling mode of the original iPad was just a way to allow iPhone apps to take up more of the screen than they would otherwise. Clearly Apple's goal was to have more iPad native/Universal apps. Spending engineering resources to make "legacy" apps run better is typically not a good use of time. Turning on Retina support on the new iPad for iPhone apps didn't require a large amount of engineering time. In fact, due to how the iOS APIs work, it may have not even required any time to get it up and running. Just the time required to verify that it did work okay.

I would agree if there wasn't so many ipad 1's out there the are JB and use the Retina mod. I know someone that uses it and loves it (until he got the ipad 3). But now that there are plenty of apps for the ipad and they force the devs to use higher res it doesn't really matter. Except when they charge more for the same game in HD.