New iPhoto/iLife is ****ed

Discussion in 'Mac Apps and Mac App Store' started by bigboy99, Nov 2, 2010.

  1. bigboy99, Nov 2, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 5, 2010

    bigboy99 macrumors 6502

    Nov 12, 2005
    Sarasota, FL
    Installed and quickly uninstalled this one, but the damage was done. My iPhoto Library was destroyed. To top it off, the install corrupted a Time Machine backup making all restore options impossible. I lost my recent Hong Kong/Australia images, but Apple gave me my money back for the software. Good trade, eh?

    Now they come out with a patch for iPhoto. It's like sand in the wound. I guess the beta testers were drunk. I wish I was, too.
  2. PreetinderBajwa macrumors regular

    May 30, 2009
    Too Frequent ?

    Is it me who is feeling this or did others also notice this :

    In the last year or so Apple has been consistently failing quality standards/expectations both at hardware and software level.......

    I just wonder if they've started to chase lead over competition instead of delivering a flawless experience ; which was their USP.
  3. maflynn Moderator


    Staff Member

    May 3, 2009
    In some respect that's not true. Just look at the iPad as proof.

    True apple has had its share of problems with the iphone 4, most of them were due to their decision to choose form over function.

    I've not used the new iLife, so I can't say, but could that also be the case. Apple added features that are more eye candy then actually being completely functional?
  4. gwerhart0800 macrumors 6502

    Mar 15, 2008
    Loveland, CO
    I would argue that Apple's drive for secrecy makes it impossible for them to test things like the iPhoto upgrade broadly enough to avoid issues. If you look at Microsoft, they have a very wide beta program for things like Office that gives them a chance to catch the "bad" data loosing issues long before general release. There is no surprise when MS releases something because so many have already seen it. Apple seems to depend completely on internal software assurance testing and that is their Achilles heel.
  5. Michaelgtrusa macrumors 604

    Oct 13, 2008
    It is true member, Apple has had lots of qt issues in the last three years and much of it covered up. imac in the last three years have had bad qt ratings and Apple has never issued a recall hoping that they stick.
  6. njean777 macrumors 6502

    Oct 17, 2009
    this is why i do not use time machine, i just back up my music,photos,movies,and folders and nothing else ( i do it almost every 2 weeks to be up to date). I guess if you had downloaded apps it would be beneficial. But doesnt most app developers let you re-download off their website?
  7. BertyBoy macrumors 6502

    Feb 1, 2009
    We understand your pain.

    We can just hope that there are lessons learned, and not the usual quips some may preach by, ie. don't upgrade straight away. All very good but someone has to, and if you've been waiting months for an upgrade, or there's a new killer feature - and I don't mean trashing all your data - then we all jump in at some point.

    A sound backup strategy. Time Machine ? don't use it. EMC Retrospect, use it, but don't rely on it, not for my photos anyway. A finder copy of all new photos, burned to DVD (or put in another folder on another partition, disk or Mac queued for backup when there are 4GB of photos to burn. Absolutely. Long before anything ever gets a sniff of my photos. I may thin them out first before iPhoto sees them, but absolutely everything gets burned to DVD. You can even change the ownership on the folder for burning to DVD to prevent accidents, without you keying the admin password.
    Retrospect also comes along and backs up all new/changed photos in the DVD-to-be-burned folder and the iPhoto library, every night.

    Doesn't help you now, but if you spend an hour designing a sound strategy, it'll never happen to you again.
  8. r0k macrumors 68040


    Mar 3, 2008
    I decided to free up some drive space by moving my iPhoto library off to a firewire drive. It was nice getting 67 gig freed up on Macintosh HD. Really nice. Then I decided to go through my normal copy ritual to make at least two backup copies of the iPhoto Library. The first was to another folder on the 1TB firewire drive. The second was to a folder on my NAS drive. Nope. It failed. Something about a file that could not be read or written. No problem. I'll just take a copy of the backup I already made. Nope. It's munged as well.

    So here I go rebuilding my iPhoto library from scratch. Only this time, I'm making a separate iPhoto Library for each year and turning OFF copy photos to iPhoto Library.

    I didn't mention this earlier but I NEVER put my only copies of anything in iPhoto. When I pop in an sd card, I dismiss that lame camera popup that wants to "import to iPhoto" and I copy the photos to 2 places. One is my firewire drive and the second is a network drive. So while my "main" iPhoto library may have gotten corrupted during the "copy" process, I don't really care 'cuz I was planning on restructuring my iPhoto library anyway. I now have imported 22 gig of photos to a file that is about 900 meg in size. Not bad to have a 5 percent ratio of iPhoto library to original photo sizes. But I'm annoyed that my faces and places don't propogate from one iPhoto library to another. It would be nice if iPhoto made it more seamless to move from one iPhoto library to another. Holding down option for the several seconds it takes iPhoto to launch is not my idea of seamless.

    As for iPhoto 11, I have decided I simply don't need it right now. Even a rumor of a rumor of data loss is enough to make me pause... Indefinitely. For one thing, my new strategy involves creating separate iPhoto libraries for each of about 20 groups of pictures, roughly organized along year taken boundaries. Does this mean I have to open all 20 files in iPhoto 9.01 before moving to the new version? I think not. Even with my original photos safely double backed up, I'll sit this one out thank you very much.

    @bigboy99, do you realize you can browse to the "sparsebundle file" for your backup and pick "show package contents"? It opens up like a folder and you can browse its contents without relying on Time Machine. You can then browse inside the sparsebundle to the iPhoto library and pick "show package contents" for the iPhoto library. You can then navigate to individual files within the iPhoto library within your sparsebundle and grab photos that might seem "lost" because iPhoto can't find them. Give this a try before giving up.
  9. JAG77 macrumors member

    Jun 30, 2010
    Central Illinois
    A few of you mention to not use time machine.. Care to elaborate on that? In your opinion, does it count as a good reliable source of backup?

    I personally am still using iphoto '08. I like the iphoto software because of its simplicity and functionality and would also be pretty upset if it was lost. I backup to time machine on an external drive from my MB. What other ways could you backup an iphoto library? Just copy the library icon to another connected drive?
  10. Alan64 macrumors member

    Nov 4, 2009
    I want the new iLife because of GarageBand11, but I'm afraid to update to iPhoto11. Is it possible to do a custom installation of just GarageBand11? I know you can't but GarageBand as a stand alone, but I'm willing to pay for the suite as long as I don't have to install the whole thing.
  11. mchalebk macrumors 6502a

    Feb 4, 2008
    Supposedly, when the App Store comes online, you will be able to purchase the various iLife apps separately.

    If you can't wait, you probably can load individual apps from iLife if you don't want to install all of them (pretty sure you could with past version; haven't bought iLife 11 yet).
  12. lag1090 macrumors 6502

    Jan 28, 2007
    Yes, you can choose which applications you want during the iLife installation process.
  13. r0k macrumors 68040


    Mar 3, 2008
    I just noticed I said I "imported" photos and the resulting library is only 5% of the original photos' size. You do realize the new library is useless if I don't have my 1TB external drive plugged in, right? I've made the decision to separate my photos from iPhoto's metadata rather than to allow iPhoto to attempt to keep both in one place which results in huge unmanageable files. The down side is the iPhoto based screensavers can't find photos unless my FW drive is plugged in. O well. No big deal, really.

    I use Time Machine / Time Capsule as my main backup and occasionally I copy my important files to a network (NAS) drive NOT on the Time Capsule.

    Here is a quick summary of my backup strategy:

    1 photos - external fw drive, nas drive, manual copy to time capsule - about 70 gig of data
    2 documents - time machine/time capsule, manual copy to nas drive, manual copy of selected data to mobile me - about 10 gig of data
    3 music - external fw drive, nas drive - about 50 gig of data

    I have 1 500 MB Time Capsule and 3 non-Apple NAS drives. 1 2TB, 1 250 MB and 1 120 MB. Obviously the older ones are being decomissioned soon. I also just picked up an extra 2TB drive to attach to the Time Capsule. I have a 1TB external FW drive and several USB external drives lying around. Between all of these I have backups of backups of my most important stuff and less important stuff doesn't get backed up at all.

    I would not rely on any one physical solution to backup, but I would certainly not rely on a 1st gen Time Capsule! I lost substantial data when my 1st gen TC died and although Apple replaced it for free, I never got my daughter's data back. Hers was the only data on the TC that wasn't also backed up elsewhere.

    I would not rely on a single software strategy for backup. Time Capsule is fine as an "automatic no brainer" backup strategy but it needs to be supplemented by manually copying important stuff to a safe, preferably off site location from time to time.

    I would not rely on a single location for backup. I'm considering crashplan as my new "second tier" backup solution. I would sign up for their $8 a month "family plan" and have off site backup for every machine in our house. My first recourse after a disaster would be to turn to the local TC or NAS drive but if our house were struck by lightning I would want off site backup. With a service like crashplan I could pick up a Macbook at the Apple store and be back up and running in a matter of hours.
  14. JAG77 macrumors member

    Jun 30, 2010
    Central Illinois
    That sounds good. I think I may start using multiple HDDs too since I have them. I think that I'm going to be updating pretty soon though.. I see the brought back the calendars feature in iphoto and with these past 2 updates to iphoto 11 hopefully I won't have any data loss problems.. Thanks for the reply :)

    As far as how to go about doing that.. do I just go to the single iphoto library icon in find and copy/paste it into another HDD?
  15. Mr Kram macrumors 68020

    Mr Kram

    Oct 1, 2008
    FWIW, my photos and home movies are backed up to a Time Machine drive and backed up to cloud storage. For stuff like that, I wouldn't rely on a sole source.

    For the OP, I don't see how iPhoto could corrupt a TM backup. iPhoto only upgrades your current library. Furthermore, TM backs up every hour for 24 hours. Are you saying that all your TM backups are bad? :confused:
  16. coocooforcocoap, Nov 5, 2010
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2010

    coocooforcocoap macrumors 6502


    Sep 22, 2007
    kathmandu, nepal
    I use Carbon Copy Cloner every night - it runs when I am asleep to an external drive. Most all apps I use have a "running backup system" while in the app, so there is no need for TM hourly backups in my case. I have had no major problems, and I have scroomed things up pretty bad - needing to go back one day - alot! It does incremental backup with archived deletes, so restores are fast and I have never have lost anything. I use Aperture, and never use it's backup library feature, and the aperture library is treated just like any other file on the backup drive (should be the same for iPhoto). Overall, I love CCC and it's free just like TM.

    BUT the reason I really came here was to find out the specifics on ilife '11, not the marketing, but from a serious user of the suite. I am thinking of upgrading to (re)try iPhoto if it's improved. I am not happy with Aperture's still very clunky and bloated for what I need, and I liked old iPhoto well enough but it was lacking in just a few features for me, like easy portability of libraries back and forth between a laptop. I had to use some third party lib switcher, that always messed things up, so I upgraded to Aperture and it's boring and cumbersome UI. Well, Cheers!
  17. BertyBoy macrumors 6502

    Feb 1, 2009
    Use whatever you like, Retrospect, CCCloner, AppleScript, Unix Shell Script, whatever.
    Just start with a sheet of A4.
    First look at the files you have that you want to back up. Be thorough but don't overcomplicate it - so I have about seven, Documents Repository, Downloads, iTunes Music, Library, Users, Photos and Work In Progress.
    Then work out hw often you want to backup each, and what type of backup you want, ie. an incremental, or a "recycle" - backup everything overwriting the old backup.
    So, for me, Documents Repository gets done once per week, Downloads once per month, iTunes Music once per month, Users every night, WIP every night.
    And, for me, Documents is incremental, Downloads is recycle, etc.
    Then decide if you want parallel streams for each backup, ie. the Downloads monthlly recycle backup is actually two backups scheduled to run once every two months, so Month 1, 3, 5, 7, 9 and 11 go to directory "DL A", the other backup, performed in months 2, 4, 6, 8, 10 and 12 goes to directory "DL B". this is so if the backup fails, I'll always have the previous months backup until I can reschedule the failed backup.
    It doesn't have to be a recycle backup to use more than one stream. I used to use 7 streams for one of my daily incremental backups - each backup would run once per week and backup all the files changed in the last week.
    But I now have two streams, each runs every second night. On the 7th night I do a recycle backup of one of the incremental backups. This runs every 2 weeks, so one week later I recycle the other incremental backup.
    Finally decide if you want to split up one of the backups, ie. my Downloads is say 60GB (I kept everything back to System 6, I still have an SE). It may take too long, or get in the way if it kicks in at 2am while I'm still trying to kill off the Dutch in Civilization. So it's split into 3 backups, one for OS updates, one for app updates, one for game updates, one will run on the 1st of the month, one on the 8th, one on the 15th, etc. My folder hierarchy makes it easy for the backup to pick up the right stuff.

    Basically do whatever you think you need. You want to backup everything every night, go for it.
    There is of course, loads of stuff I don't back up, all my scratch directories, the OS, the installed apps - but I keep a strict log of what gets installed and when (and that log is backed up). Time Machine just didn't cut it for what I wanted to do. It may work well for most users, but as Mac users we had perfectly tuned backup strategies for 20 years before Leopard showed up.

    It's also my day job, Oracle DBA consultancy, being able to backup quickly and completely is fundamental (amongst many other skills required), the Oracle RMAN software is first rate for backups (well, it was awful in 8i) but it's not always perfectly suited for the client, if your business is not 24/7 then there may be better alternatives.

    Ah, very final point, if you develop and build a backup strategy, test it of course, but you must periodically read the logs it may produce. Make sure they run, make sure they finish, correct any issues, check disk spac available and have a plan for what happens if you run out (I had my 750GB backup disk nearly fill up overnight a month ago, about 12GB free I think. Plan, run out and but a new 2TB unit to replace it).
  18. flynz4, Nov 6, 2010
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2010

    flynz4 macrumors 68040

    Aug 9, 2009
    Portland, OR
    I agree with almost everything you said... except the quote in "red" above. I do not believe that any part of a backup strategy should be manual.

    I would strongly suggest that you add Crashplan+ (I recommend the + over the standard) or alternatively use Mozy. I have used Mozy for years, but I switched to Crashplan+ a year ago. I actually have more long term confidence in Mozy because they are owned by EMC... but I like one feature of Crashplan better... namely "unlimited versioning". This is important in case of inadvertent deletion of files. Crashplan keeps versions forever, while Mozy only keeps them for 30 days.

    My criteria for a good backup plan consists of the following:
    • You should have a single place where your "original copies" of your data exists. Otherwise you will almost certainly lose track of data, and will eventually have data loss.
    • All backup solutions must be fully automatic, with no human intervention needed
    • You must have two separate backup locations, ideally using two separate backup programs
    • At least one of the backup locations MUST be offsite (for disaster recovery)
    • The second backup location is ideally local (for quick recovery)

    For ourselves (my wife and I), we use the following:
    • All original copies of our data lives on our shared i7 2TB iMac (our personal data is in our individual login accounts)
    • We use Crashplan+ as our primary backup - offsite to the cloud (15 minute backup interval)
    • We use Time Machine as our local "in house" backup for fast rebuild of a computer if necessary... or to migrate from an old to a new computer (1 hour backup interval)
    Furthermore... we never keep any original data on our laptops. We use a combination of Mobile Me and Dropbox to cloud sychnronize all "original data" or "editable data" that we would ever use on our laptops. Hence... if we were to edit a file on the laptop... it would immediately sync back to the cloud... and within seconds would be synced back to our home iMac and double backed up (Crashplan+ and TM).

    With this approach... our laptops are essentially "stateless". We can pick up our indivudual MBA or my MBP... and every file that we would possibly want would be locally available, and up to date. Likewise, we only use iMAP email... so we always get the same synchronized view of our mail irrespective of which machine we pick up.

    Furthermore... my wife and I each keep user accounts for each other on our personal laptops (we each have an MBP and an MBA)... so we can always use each other's laptops... and the operating environment (including files) would be identical to our personal machines. This comes in handy if one of us (usually my wife) does not have our laptops available at the time.

    I have one test question that I ask myself in evaluating my backup strategy... and I recommend others ask themselves the same:

    If I was to take any (or all) of our machines (laptops, desktops, or backup drives)... and at any instant in time, throw them into the incinerator... would I be upset (other than having to buy replacement machines)?

    If the answer is yes... then I would re-evaluate my backup strategy.

  19. BertyBoy, Nov 8, 2010
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2010

    BertyBoy macrumors 6502

    Feb 1, 2009
    Well, I cannot stess highly enough that any backup plan should have at least a manual check that the backups are starting and completing successfully. Once a week, once a month, whenever, set a Calendar event to get you to check any log files. Even more so if you switch to new backup software. 10x even more so if you use an online backup.
    You need to remember that backup schedules can fail to start, run out of (allocated) disk, encounter bad disk, encounter locked or unavailable files, fail to find the backup repository, hang or crash on file compression or file encryption, miss new directories, include files you didn't want included - say that 8.4GB disk image you left on your desktop.
    When I had Oralce database responsibility for a worldwide internet bank on my shoulders, ie. my head on the chopping block, did I rely on getting an email telling me if there had been issues the previous night ? Of course not. Did I rely on asking the operations team if everything had completed (after a shift change too), of course not. Check it yourself. For me it was the first thing I did in the morning, every morning. You don't have to be as thorough with a Mac, but you should check periodically. I've seen it happen to other Mac users, trying to recover a file only to find they've not had any backups run for the last 4 months.

    Thanks for the pointers to Mozy and CrashPlan. I was quite excited about crashplan, looked to have extremely good functionality and flexibility. Then I read it was Java-based.
  20. flynz4, Nov 8, 2010
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2010

    flynz4 macrumors 68040

    Aug 9, 2009
    Portland, OR
    You make a very good point about checking the backups. There are two things that I do:

    1) Periodically I manually test restore a file... but I have never found any issues in my tests. Sometime I do this because I really need a file... and other times I just test it.
    2) Automatically (I set it to daily), Crashplan emails a backup report. For each computer being backed up, it shows:

    • How much data is selected for backup
    • The delta change in selected backup size since the previous report.
    • The number of files selected for backup
    • The delta change since the previous report
    • % of completed backup
    • Last time connected to the network
    • Duration since the most recent backup

    It gives a very nice view of what is happening.

    You can see a sample of the backup report at:

    This one is set to a fairly coarse reporting period... (1 week)... but that is adjustable. In my case... my columns i and j are typically listed in minutes. It is easy to see changes in column h when larger changes are made to the data (ex: downloading pictures, music or videos).

    Is this just a personal dislike... or do you think there is some reason that it compromises Crashplan+


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