New iTunes Store Terms Suggest Impending Apple TV 3.0 Software Update

[GeekLawyer]

Seems to me that most people posting here either hate the Apple TV, or they use it.

I think you're on to something.

I've had my 40GB AppleTV since Day One. It still feels like magic to me when I use it. All of my music, photos, ripped TV shows and movies at my fingertips whenever I want. Video podcasts, to me, are the killer feature. Who needs cable?

Storage is unimportant to me since I stream everything from my NAS. The only wish-list item for me is some kind of integration with Hulu and other IPTV sources (but I'm not holding my breath). 720P looks great on my 42" Plasma. My Blu-ray player delivers higher-res movies and Netflix streaming.

 

[Dysfnctnl85]

Plex

For those of you with AppleTVs, and I'm just curious here, have you ever used Plex?

Maybe I'm just not thinking clearly, but is there anything the AppleTV does that Plex can't do?

While it's not the most convenient thing in the world (and if I purchased a Mac Mini it would just always be connected to my TV), I hook up my MBP to my TV and watch Hulu, anything in my iTunes, all of my MKV files, etc.

Thoughts?

 

[FaasNat]

Hopefully this update will address the issue that bugs me the most. In each of the submenus, the majority of the choices takes you to the iTunes Store. I'd rather have all that point to my library (at the current state, it's at the bottom) and just one selection that says Music/Movies/TV Store.

Bugged me enough to not get the AppleTV.

 

[pmjoe]

So much of what is wrong with Apple TV could be fixed with a real software update ... but I'm not holding my breath that 3.0 is going to do any of it. There is a list of features a mile long that should be added.

The rest of what is wrong with Apple TV could be fixed by the addition of hardware support for 1080p.

 

[iOrlando]

i would be very happy if apple introduced apple tv apps..

so for example, Revision3 can create an app that simply lets its videos play on your TV through apple tv. I can stop using the buggy and poor UI of boxee.

espn.com..same thing
cnn.com

i know the whole hulu vs cable industry fight might complicate this...but if espn.com has game summary videos available on its website, I dont see why there would be a huge battle just streaming that to your TV through the app.

 

[Michael73]

In summary, you have a 1080p TV, 5.1 surround, a MacPro for movie storage & streaming, and will soon have a BD player in that PS3.

So why wait for next-gen hardware refresh? There's lots of popular wishes for a next-gen TV. I think the "big 10" are:

• full 1080p HD capability- the current hardware is capped at a limited incarnation of 720p (just barely HD)

Can someone clarify this? If a movie has been ripped that's HD or I've shot video on an HD camcorder both of which are at 1080i or 1080p and that content has been imported into my iTunes library, am I unable to stream it to the AppleTV? Or, will it stream but somehow translated on the fly and outputted at only 720p?

 

[locust76]

Can someone clarify this? If a movie has been ripped that's HD or I've shot video on an HD camcorder both of which are at 1080i or 1080p and that content has been imported into my iTunes library, am I unable to stream it to the AppleTV? Or, will it stream but somehow translated on the fly and outputted at only 720p?

No, Apple TV can process at most 720p video. 1080 videos simply won't be synced, and they cannot be streamed.

 

[MightyB]

Can someone clarify this? If a movie has been ripped that's HD or I've shot video on an HD camcorder both of which are at 1080i or 1080p and that content has been imported into my iTunes library, am I unable to stream it to the AppleTV? Or, will it stream but somehow translated on the fly and outputted at only 720p?

If itunes can play it (without a plugin, 3rd party), appleTV can play it.

 

[spice weasel]

I agree. Integrate Netflix and internet TV sites like Hulu and you have an even better device. You do get all of these and more with the aTV mod (including the ability to connect an external hard drive to the usb port to expand the storage capacity of the basic device) but I would like to see these supported natively from apple.

Not going to happen. The ATV is not just a media extender, it's an Apple iTMS media extender. At least that's how Apple sees it. So forget any officially supported software or hardware updates that incorporate the ability to get content from anyone other than Apple. That means no additional codecs, no Blu-ray, no DVR, and, until iTMS goes 1080p, no "full-HD."

 

[cmendill]

For those of you with AppleTVs, and I'm just curious here, have you ever used Plex?

Maybe I'm just not thinking clearly, but is there anything the AppleTV does that Plex can't do?

While it's not the most convenient thing in the world (and if I purchased a Mac Mini it would just always be connected to my TV), I hook up my MBP to my TV and watch Hulu, anything in my iTunes, all of my MKV files, etc.

Thoughts?

Because doing that, as you said, isn't the most convenient thing in the world. Plus it occupies your laptop while you are watching TV. Also, ATV interfaces with iTunes, so iTunes can be the sole way in which your organize all of your media for all of your devices -- TV included (not that I think itunes is the best).

That said, Plex and Boxee both offer web content that is not available on ATV -- which is very nice.

I am hoping some day for a true seemless integration of web and local content. I think the best way to do this would be to build an ATV App Store, just like the iPhone. The providers can manage their own content and it gives them an easy way to get it on the ATV.

This requires Apple to take some initiative and change the way we watch tv, and not just by adapting the iTunes music store model to video -- which is inherently the wrong solution.

 

[spice weasel]

For those of you with AppleTVs, and I'm just curious here, have you ever used Plex?

Maybe I'm just not thinking clearly, but is there anything the AppleTV does that Plex can't do?

While it's not the most convenient thing in the world (and if I purchased a Mac Mini it would just always be connected to my TV), I hook up my MBP to my TV and watch Hulu, anything in my iTunes, all of my MKV files, etc.

Thoughts?

Plex is great, but now you're talking a full-fledged computer to run it, not just an inexpensive ATV. I don't think that anyone would argue that a Mac mini provides a better HTPC experience than an ATV. The issue is cost.

 

[dloomer]

For those of you with AppleTVs, and I'm just curious here, have you ever used Plex?

Maybe I'm just not thinking clearly, but is there anything the AppleTV does that Plex can't do?

While it's not the most convenient thing in the world (and if I purchased a Mac Mini it would just always be connected to my TV), I hook up my MBP to my TV and watch Hulu, anything in my iTunes, all of my MKV files, etc.

Thoughts?

I like Plex. It's engineered specifically for Leopard so it runs fast and looks pretty. It integrates very well with your iTunes music library. The plugin architecture (very similar to Boxee's) is great -- as one examples it let me watch mlb.tv in HD with a 10-foot interface.

But for me personally, the following prevents Plex from being a viable AppleTV replacement:

* No AirTunes integration
* No 10-foot interface to iTunes store to rent movies, etc.
* Poor integration with my iTunes non-music content (depends on folder structure rather than metadata), and inability to play iTunes Store-purchased videos.

 

[dloomer]

Plex is great, but now you're talking a full-fledged computer to run it, not just an inexpensive ATV. I don't think that anyone would argue that a Mac mini provides a better HTPC experience than an ATV. The issue is cost.

Again, this is just personal for my own needs, but for me the Mac Mini doesn't provide the HTPC experience I need.

Pros (vs. Apple TV):
* Much better hardware, can play and stream HD content (AppleTV doesn't stream HD content over the internet, and if you install Boxee even non-HD content like Hulu plays poorly)
* DVD slot

Cons (vs. Apple TV):
* Front Row really sucks compared to Apple TV. No AirTunes Integration, no 10-foot interface to iTunes Store (so this is two cons)
* Third-party 10-foot solutions such as Boxee and Plex are nice, but are still lacking (see my Plex post above)

For me, the cons outweigh the pros. I reluctantly go with a Mac Mini attached to one of my TVs, and somewhat less reluctantly go with the AppleTV on the other. Somehow the best of both worlds need to be brought together, but I'm not holding my breath.

 

[blybug]

I like Plex. It's engineered specifically for Leopard so it runs fast and looks pretty. It integrates very well with your iTunes music library. The plugin architecture (very similar to Boxee's) is great -- as one examples it let me watch mlb.tv in HD with a 10-foot interface.

But for me personally, the following prevents Plex from being a viable AppleTV replacement:

* No AirTunes integration
* No 10-foot interface to iTunes store to rent movies, etc.
* Poor integration with my iTunes non-music content (depends on folder structure rather than metadata), and inability to play iTunes Store-purchased videos.

Yeah, just tried messing around with it and so far kinda disappointed. It looks pretty, that's for sure, but frustrated by the "setup". Don't like how it deals (or more accurately, doesn't deal) with iTunes video content. Picks up the Music Library just fine, but Plex is largely meant to be a video app, right? Why doesn't it automatically pick up my perfectly iTunes-organized TV shows and Movies? I have to point it to the folder structure and even then it doesn't display the metadata or organize very nicely, especially with the multi-nested Media Folder setup of iTunes 9. This won't pass the kid/wife test.

Was excited to see a TiVo plugin...but can't get past the entering of my TiVo media key. Doesn't seem to find my TiVo...I have other apps that can do this so wonder what the problem with the Plex plugin is...

 

[colinmack]

i would be very happy if apple introduced apple tv apps..

so for example, Revision3 can create an app that simply lets its videos play on your TV through apple tv. I can stop using the buggy and poor UI of boxee.

espn.com..same thing
cnn.com

i know the whole hulu vs cable industry fight might complicate this...but if espn.com has game summary videos available on its website, I dont see why there would be a huge battle just streaming that to your TV through the app.

Agree - I have two Apple TVs, some of the later comments in the thread are much more on target with where it can actually be a runaway product, none of this DVR/Bluray noise from people that don't get it.

1080p will probably come as part of a standard hardware refresh cycle anyway, and will quiet the spec-focused...not that they felt the need to jump up and down about the overly-compressed 720p HD cable feeds from their HD set-top boxes - but whatever, I'm sure that's completely different

Otherwise, app integration is key - it allows the device to be extended into so much more of a 'platform' than it currently is (live sports/news via a dedicated app, simple games, widgets like weather/stocks, etc.), and with the success of the iTunes app store on the iPhone, it's hard to imagine that they couldn't pull it off easily and keep it under control.

As far as Bluray drives and DVRs - it's like complaining that the Airport Express with AirTunes doesn't have a built-in CD player or cassette deck when using it to listen to music. If you're making that argument, you very simply don't understand what the Apple TV is intended to do, and where the industry is headed.

It's exactly like that Henry Ford quote: "If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses."

People asking for Bluray drives and DVRs want faster horses. The rest of us want cars. Of course, you probably all want cars too, you just don't know it yet

 

[dloomer]

I've been running atv4mac on an mac mini running Tiger hooked up to my TV with a DVI->HDMI cable. Main reason being I can keep the tv's media on an external hard drive so all my content can be sync'ed (bonus: autobackup) and not limited buy the 160GB "real" tv. My main iTunes Library sees the mini as an tv when the atv4mac software is running. My family loves it, passes the kid and the wife test for ease of use accessing all their (ripped) movies, TV shows, family home movies, music, photos...all the TV hate I suspect comes from people who haven't used one.

As it turns out my tv-mini setup has allowed me to run the mini as a centralized server "underneath" the tv interface for all our computers to share documents, photos, and perform internal network backups followed by ongoing cloud backups to mozy.com. If the next tv revision incorporated some of these abilities (ie attachment of external drives, server and backup functions alá Time Machine, installation of "Mac" apps) I'd buy a real tv in one hot second. The atv4mac software has been stuck at tv 2.0.2 and I'd really like to get the new features, iPhone remote, Airtunes, and now iTunes LPs.

I would be really interested in a solution that brings the latest AppleTV software to a regular Mac. Whether it be ATV4Mac or booting the AppleTV OS -- I've tried both, and haven't been satisfied with the results.

I'm grateful to the hackers who have brought it this far, but really frustrated at their lack of persistence. I've seen posts saying they've gotten one solution or the other working with AppleTV 2.4 software, and then a paragraph down there's a "minor" disclaimer like they couldn't sync it with iTunes or whatever -- and then they seem to just give up. I know it must be possible! There must just be a very small number of us for whom it's actually important ...

 

[GottaLoveApple4]

WebKit iTunes LP and Extras....

Since iTunes LP and Extras are built using webkit, isn't it possible to think that apple is going to add safari as well? If they have all the frameworks then why not? That's why I believe it took them so long to add the lp and extras features because it will encorporate a browser too.

 

[jayducharme]

I want a true apple tv. 47 inch 1080P LED LCD running at 240hz. Slap a mac mini inside. Now that is a sweet tv.

We're almost at that point: if the new 27" wall-mountable quad-core iMac keeps growing, there will finally be that long-rumored convergence device. For now, I'm content with a 27" screen and an EyeTV.

 

[StickNutzman]

It's exactly like that Henry Ford quote: "If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses."

People asking for Bluray drives and DVRs want faster horses. The rest of us want cars. Of course, you probably all want cars too, you just don't know it yet

Absolutely agree here. I recently purchased a 160GB ATV with the recent price drop at $200 from Amazon. Combined with an EyeTV and Handbrake, we were able to cancel cable and save $60 a month. The only reason I pull DVDs off the shelf anymore is to rip them to the ATV. The device is perfect for me, my wife can use it no problem, and the sky is the limit for what Apple could do in the future to upstage cable TV and physical media. For me, throwing $200 to use the device right now also lets Apple know that demand for the device is there. When they update the hardware, I'll take all the cash I saved from dumping cable and buy the new one.

 

[mambodancer]

For those of you with AppleTVs, and I'm just curious here, have you ever used Plex?

Maybe I'm just not thinking clearly, but is there anything the AppleTV does that Plex can't do?

While it's not the most convenient thing in the world (and if I purchased a Mac Mini it would just always be connected to my TV), I hook up my MBP to my TV and watch Hulu, anything in my iTunes, all of my MKV files, etc.

Thoughts?

I really wanted to like Plex but after downloading the most recent version it just wouldn't work. Also, adding content is counter intuitive and not very easy to set up. You need to go to the "Watch Videos" menu to add Movies and TV? Why not just call it "Add Content" or something?

 

[jeffbass2x]

PS3 w/ Media link a much better option?

I'm about to make a plunge into the world of Mac with a new core i7 iMac and was looking into my options for media streaming. Could someone tell me why I should choose ATV over something like a PS3 with Medialink? More storage, 1080p, Blueray player, plus full iLife integration...and the ability to play games (even though I'm not much of a gamer). I don't see how a software update could make ATV a better option.

http://www.nullriver.com/products/medialink

I forgot to mention PS3 is a Netflix ready device.

http://www.netflix.com/NetflixReadyDevicesDetails?pdid=105&lnkce=nrd-d&trkid=1456898&lnkctr=nrd-d-n-105-playstation3system

 

[Tilpots]

It will never happen. It won't happen because that presupposes that you still have cable or broadcast TV and want to setup up, schedule and record from that when the trend is more and more toward internet programming through Netflix, HULU, Joost, iTV, YouTube, etc. These sites are the next decades version of NBC, ABC, CBS and we happen to be caught in that paradigm shift that the old media networks, music & movie industries and cable companies are so resistant to.

That's laughable. The only things Netflix and the like do is redistribute the major networks' content. If those companies go away, buh-bye content.

Netflix, Hulu, Joost and the like allow me to watch the shows on my schedule. iTunes, Amazon and Google allow me to download and keep the shows I might like to rewatch or to move from aTV to Computer to iPod, etc.

You just described the functions of a DVR.

As far as Bluray drives and DVRs - it's like complaining that the Airport Express with AirTunes doesn't have a built-in CD player or cassette deck when using it to listen to music. If you're making that argument, you very simply don't understand what the Apple TV is intended to do, and where the industry is headed.

It's exactly like that Henry Ford quote: "If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses."

People asking for Bluray drives and DVRs want faster horses. The rest of us want cars. Of course, you probably all want cars too, you just don't know it yet

You simply don't understand the argument. "Faster horses?" Please. Blu-Ray and DVR technologies are readily available. No need to reinvent the horse.


That AppleTV should be called an "iTunes Storefront" NOT a "Media Extender."
What if your iPod only played iTunes content?

 

[bpapa]

Does anyone still use Apple TV? I mean with the new Mac Mini, Server or not, it can totally replace Apple TV.

Agreed! They are the same price and everything!

Oh wait.

 

[mambodancer]

Not going to happen. The ATV is not just a media extender, it's an Apple iTMS media extender. At least that's how Apple sees it. So forget any officially supported software or hardware updates that incorporate the ability to get content from anyone other than Apple. That means no additional codecs, no Blu-ray, no DVR, and, until iTMS goes 1080p, no "full-HD."

Maybe...but then Audible is built into iTunes already. As far as full HD, there is every indication that this will be coming in the next year of two. Personally, my guess is for 2010.

 

[mambodancer]

That's laughable. The only things Netflix and the like do is redistribute the major networks' content. If those companies go away, buh-bye content.

You just described the functions of a DVR.:rolleyes


That AppleTV should be called an "iTunes Storefront" NOT a "Media Extender."
What if your iPod only played iTunes content?

•Which is exactly what Comcast and other cable companies do - redistribute network content. It is possible that existing networks may go away but it will not mean that there will not be content to distribute over whatever network or distribution channel there might be in the future. My point was that Google, Netflix and Hulu are todays ABC, NBC & CBS. (Quite literally in the case of HULU) It really wont be long before they start producing their own content and/or independent artists and producers begin to distribute their products on the internet first. I suspect we are very close to this happening soon.

•Which is why you do not need that function built into the hardware or to buy it as an add-on. I think you missed my point about having these features already in the form of a virtual DVR.

•I think you meant "iTunes STORE content"