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dandeco

macrumors 65816
Dec 5, 2008
1,178
988
Brockton, MA
If they also end up refreshing the Mac Mini line in March 2024, this would be fine, because I am setting my goal to buy a new Mini around May 2024 (or maybe April if my funds are good enough). I'm still aiming for an M2/3 Pro-equipped Mac Mini with the RAM maxed out (32 or 36 GB) and a 1 TB SSD, as it'd be the next step up from my M1 MacBook Air AND my 2012 quad-core i7 Mac Mini (configured with 16 GB of RAM and a 1 TB SSD).
 

dandeco

macrumors 65816
Dec 5, 2008
1,178
988
Brockton, MA
If they also end up refreshing the Mac Mini line in March 2024, this would be fine, because I am setting my goal to buy a new Mini around May 2024 (or maybe April if my funds are good enough). I'm still aiming for an M2/3 Pro-equipped Mac Mini with the RAM maxed out (32 or 36 GB) and a 1 TB SSD, as it'd be the next step up from my M1 MacBook Air AND my 2012 quad-core i7 Mac Mini (configured with 16 GB of RAM and a 1 TB SSD).
Now that I think of it, I do also need to save up a bit in case my older car dies out and I need to buy a "new" one (not new, but a used car made since the mid-to-late 2010s; my current car is a BMW from 2001). If the Mac Mini line gets refreshed in March 2024, I could probably get away with a "regular" M3 Mac Mini with the RAM maxed out to 24 GB, along with the 1 TB SSD. That would probably run me around $1400. I mean, my M1 MacBook Air already gives me very satisfactory performance with my audiovisual production, and there will already be a fairly big boost when comparing a 16 GB RAM M1 with a 24 GB RAM M3. This way, I'd save $500 compared to a pro-level Mini with the RAM maxed out and an SSD of the same size.
EDIT: Never mind; I'd need the four Thunderbolt USB-C ports on the Pro model compared to the "regular" Minis having only two.
 
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macmahon70

macrumors member
Oct 23, 2008
82
13
Brussels
I am back in this forum after a long break since 2019.
I have an Ipad Pro 10.9 since 2020. This is the only Apple product that I still have together with 2 Ipod Classics.
I was considering a MacBook Air in this sale period in Belgium, but why in 2024 Apple still sells and advertises 8gb as standard and 256gb SSD? All Apple products owners know that there is no freebie from Apple. So I am definitely hoping that a 16gb will be standard in the new line, but I am pessimistic. If there were possibilities to upgrade the RAM and SSD by yourself, this would be a different question. All laptop manufacturers have possibilities to upgrade the RAM and the SSD without voiding the warranty. On all laptops, 16gb RAM and 512gb are standards. Maybe even 1tb SSD will become standard in 2024.
I will never understand this stingy approach from a company that makes so much profit. This is why I don't have Iphone anymore but got a Pixel instead. PS: I will disregard comments from people telling me "but you know most people are happy with 8g RAM and 256Gb RAM". Well, I am not most people.
 

Kal Madda

macrumors 65816
Nov 2, 2022
1,258
919
…but why in 2024 Apple still sells and advertises 8gb as standard and 256gb SSD?

Because it’s a good spec, and is more than enough for most people. Most people aren’t editing 6K video, and those who are can buy a higher spec, next…

…All laptop manufacturers have possibilities to upgrade the RAM and the SSD without voiding the warranty.

And you’re sure that’s not an incorrect assumption? I don’t think any of the Microsoft Surface line of computers use RAM cards, I know that at least the majority of them use soldered RAM.

…On all laptops, 16gb RAM and 512gb are standards. Maybe even 1tb SSD will become standard in 2024.

That’s a load of hogwash, there are plenty of Windows PCs shipping with 8GB of RAM. Heck, there are some that are still shipping with 4GBs.

…I will never understand this stingy approach from a company that makes so much profit. This is why I don't have Iphone anymore but got a Pixel instead.

Offering a cheaper option that lots of customers like isn’t “stinginess”. 8GB RAM configurations sell very well and are very popular, and customer satisfaction is very high. Just because you want a different spec and aren’t willing to pay for it, doesn’t mean Apple is being “stingy”…🙄

…PS: I will disregard comments from people telling me "but you know most people are happy with 8g RAM and 256Gb RAM". Well, I am not most people.

Well, if you don’t want to hear facts, then that’s fine, but that’s just clearly the facts based on the numbers. 8GB configurations sell very well, and customer satisfaction is very high. You may not be most people, but then you should recognize that the base spec isn’t meant for you, and just buy the spec that you do want. It would be like me complaining that a car company doesn’t offer leather seats and trim in the base model, if leather seats and trim are a big deal to you, then buy the trim package that includes those. Not super complicated…

PS. If you want to buy Windows PCs, that’s fine, that’s your decision and nobody’s stopping you. Just don’t go around peddling falsehoods about “standard” RAM configurations, it’s not a good look.
 
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Lioness~

macrumors 68030
Apr 26, 2017
2,954
3,669
Mars
I will never understand this stingy approach from a company that makes so much profit. This is why I don't have Iphone anymore but got a Pixel instead. PS: I will disregard comments from people telling me "but you know most people are happy with 8g RAM and 256Gb RAM". Well, I am not most people.
Luckily, we’re all different, and we can pick and chose as we like.
I'm not most people either, I need 16GB RAM on my MBA's, but I’m ok with 256GB storage.
But I won’t upgrade anytime before the latest quarter of this year, as it seems for now.
No heavy user of my MBA as of now.
Can’t speak for everyone, but it's Apple's quality that keeps me as a customer.
It was a long time ago Apple was a 'customer company' though - during Tim Cook it have been an everything for the shareholders.
It can’t be worse with just about anyone else as a new CEO when he's done, from the customers perspective.
 

macmahon70

macrumors member
Oct 23, 2008
82
13
Brussels
Because it’s a good spec, and is more than enough for most people. Most people aren’t editing 6K video, and those who are can buy a higher spec, next…



And you’re sure that’s not an incorrect assumption? I don’t think any of the Microsoft Surface line of computers use RAM cards, I know that at least the majority of them use soldered RAM.



That’s a load of hogwash, there are plenty of Windows PCs shipping with 8GB of RAM. Heck, there are some that are still shipping with 4GBs.



Offering a cheaper option that lots of customers like isn’t “stinginess”. 8GB RAM configurations sell very well and are very popular, and customer satisfaction is very high. Just because you want a different spec and aren’t willing to pay for it, doesn’t mean Apple is being “stingy”…🙄



Well, if you don’t want to hear facts, then that’s fine, but that’s just clearly the facts based on the numbers. 8GB configurations sell very well, and customer satisfaction is very high. You may not be most people, but then you should recognize that the base spec isn’t meant for you, and just buy the spec that you do want. It would be like me complaining that a car company doesn’t offer leather seats and trim in the base model, if leather seats and trim are a big deal to you, then buy the trim package that includes those. Not super complicated…

PS. If you want to buy Windows PCs, that’s fine, that’s your decision and nobody’s stopping you. Just don’t go around peddling falsehoods about “standard” RAM configurations, it’s not a good look.

I am just stating points that I would like on a Macbook, there is no need for drama. How much does 8gb RAM costs nowadays? What would it cost for Apple to do offer it as standard? I am not talking about the Surface. I am talking about laptops in general. It's a question of budget. If you have the cash, of course, why would you care? I don't think that your view is representative of the majority of the Apple users. If tomorrow I go to my Apple Store, do you think a sales person would tell me "it is what is, if you are not happy you can go somewhere else". If I would want to play Baldur's Gate 3 on my Macbook Air, do you think 8gb would be enough? Are you going to tell me that "the majority of Mac users don't play games so it is not relevant" or that "you should know that Macbooks are not for gaming"?
 

Kal Madda

macrumors 65816
Nov 2, 2022
1,258
919
@macmahon70
I am just stating points that I would like on a Macbook, there is no need for drama. How much does 8gb RAM costs nowadays? What would it cost for Apple to do offer it as standard? I am not talking about the Surface. I am talking about laptops in general. It's a question of budget. If you have the cash, of course, why would you care? I don't think that your view is representative of the majority of the Apple users. If tomorrow I go to my Apple Store, do you think a sales person would tell me "it is what is, if you are not happy you can go somewhere else". If I would want to play Baldur's Gate 3 on my Macbook Air, do you think 8gb would be enough? Are you going to tell me that "the majority of Mac users don't play games so it is not relevant" or that "you should know that Macbooks are not for gaming"?

We don’t know how much Apple’s Unified Memory costs to produce. And 8GBs on an M-Series chip would probably be fine for playing Baldur’s Gate 3. I’ve never played Baldur’s Gate, so I can’t personally confirm that. And if you know you’re going to be doing heavy gaming, just buy a higher spec configuration.
 

drrich2

macrumors regular
Jan 11, 2005
216
120
Why do we have to keep going in "I think Apple should offer a higher base config" vs. "if you want a higher config, just pay more" argument circles?
I think there are a few factors.

1.) Apple is seen as a premium equipment maker, but also has a rep. for price gouging. Whether that's so and how badly (e.g.: is the Apple Studio Display grossly over-expensive or just misunderstood and under appreciated?) is debated.

2.) Given that Macs are pricer than cheap PCs, there's the sense the product ought to be 'premium,' and Macs are often kept and used a long time. 8 Gig RAM isn't seen as premium, especially in Macs where it's seen as hamstringing their potential. It'd be like selling a sport car with an underpowered engine okay for basic driving but not what people expect sports cars to be able to do.

3.) I suspect sympathy for buyers who don't know the technical pro.s and con.s of the RAM allotment is an issue. That RAM is not upgradable is a big issue.

4.) In addition to RAM and SSD upgrade costs seen as excessive, during the Black Friday/Cyber Monday sales season, I saw sales on base models, but I don't recall as many on build-to-order. If the base models tend to go on sale and BTO much less so, than to get a BTO with more RAM and/or SSD may in practical reality cost another $150 - $200 in addition to the big charge for the upgrade itself.

5.) Resentment of perceived 'bait and switch.' Apple products like the Mac Mini and MacBook Air are advertised at what look like great prices, but upgrades to more mid-range RAM and SSD jack the price way up, then you see a sale on the base model but not the BTO so the effective difference is even greater.

Question: is this the experience of the rest of you, or do you find sales equally apply to BTO Macs?

I suspect many users hope fomenting awareness and resentment at the grassroots level may eventually raise up enough pushback to nudge Apple toward raising the base specs. Thus they may be alert to opportunities to draw attention to the issue.

And there are people who disagree with one of more of these arguments.

So as you allude, round and round me go. Where we stop, nobody knows...
 

Kal Madda

macrumors 65816
Nov 2, 2022
1,258
919
I think there are a few factors.

1.) Apple is seen as a premium equipment maker, but also has a rep. for price gouging. Whether that's so and how badly (e.g.: is the Apple Studio Display grossly over-expensive or just misunderstood and under appreciated?) is debated.

2.) Given that Macs are pricer than cheap PCs, there's the sense the product ought to be 'premium,' and Macs are often kept and used a long time. 8 Gig RAM isn't seen as premium, especially in Macs where it's seen as hamstringing their potential. It'd be like selling a sport car with an underpowered engine okay for basic driving but not what people expect sports cars to be able to do.

3.) I suspect sympathy for buyers who don't know the technical pro.s and con.s of the RAM allotment is an issue. That RAM is not upgradable is a big issue.

4.) In addition to RAM and SSD upgrade costs seen as excessive, during the Black Friday/Cyber Monday sales season, I saw sales on base models, but I don't recall as many on build-to-order. If the base models tend to go on sale and BTO much less so, than to get a BTO with more RAM and/or SSD may in practical reality cost another $150 - $200 in addition to the big charge for the upgrade itself.

5.) Resentment of perceived 'bait and switch.' Apple products like the Mac Mini and MacBook Air are advertised at what look like great prices, but upgrades to more mid-range RAM and SSD jack the price way up, then you see a sale on the base model but not the BTO so the effective difference is even greater.

Question: is this the experience of the rest of you, or do you find sales equally apply to BTO Macs?

I suspect many users hope fomenting awareness and resentment at the grassroots level may eventually raise up enough pushback to nudge Apple toward raising the base specs. Thus they may be alert to opportunities to draw attention to the issue.

And there are people who disagree with one of more of these arguments.

So as you allude, round and round me go. Where we stop, nobody knows...
I saw several Black Friday sales on the 16GB configuration MacBook Pro’s as well, and I’m pretty sure they were discounted by the same amount.

I think some people accuse Apple of price gouging, but when you look at the actual value on offer, I think their products are often under-appreciated.

I also think that most of the people arguing 8GB of RAM isn’t enough for most people haven’t used an M-series Mac with 8GB of RAM. I have, and actually do professional work on one involving running 3D modeling/sculpting software, graphic design, video editing, etc. and I have never had a performance problem. I’d say it’s comparable to the performance I’ve gotten out of Intel systems with 16GB of RAM.

I also regularly see discounts on both current and prior-gen higher spec Macs.
 
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macmahon70

macrumors member
Oct 23, 2008
82
13
Brussels
I think there are a few factors.

1.) Apple is seen as a premium equipment maker, but also has a rep. for price gouging. Whether that's so and how badly (e.g.: is the Apple Studio Display grossly over-expensive or just misunderstood and under appreciated?) is debated.

2.) Given that Macs are pricer than cheap PCs, there's the sense the product ought to be 'premium,' and Macs are often kept and used a long time. 8 Gig RAM isn't seen as premium, especially in Macs where it's seen as hamstringing their potential. It'd be like selling a sport car with an underpowered engine okay for basic driving but not what people expect sports cars to be able to do.

3.) I suspect sympathy for buyers who don't know the technical pro.s and con.s of the RAM allotment is an issue. That RAM is not upgradable is a big issue.

4.) In addition to RAM and SSD upgrade costs seen as excessive, during the Black Friday/Cyber Monday sales season, I saw sales on base models, but I don't recall as many on build-to-order. If the base models tend to go on sale and BTO much less so, than to get a BTO with more RAM and/or SSD may in practical reality cost another $150 - $200 in addition to the big charge for the upgrade itself.

5.) Resentment of perceived 'bait and switch.' Apple products like the Mac Mini and MacBook Air are advertised at what look like great prices, but upgrades to more mid-range RAM and SSD jack the price way up, then you see a sale on the base model but not the BTO so the effective difference is even greater.

Question: is this the experience of the rest of you, or do you find sales equally apply to BTO Macs?

I suspect many users hope fomenting awareness and resentment at the grassroots level may eventually raise up enough pushback to nudge Apple toward raising the base specs. Thus they may be alert to opportunities to draw attention to the issue.

And there are people who disagree with one of more of these arguments.

So as you allude, round and round me go. Where we stop, nobody knows...
It is very strange I checked the resellers and BTO it is either 16gb/ 256gb disk or 8g RAM/ 512gb SSDs. I have not seen 512gb and 16gb configs.
 
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