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Stop dragging me into your Windows world. This is the complete lineup of notebooks worth talking about on MacRumors. And only one of them has a discrete GPU as an option. That's not plenty, that's one far from none. A dGPU has become a bottom-right feature for people spending $2599+. For everyone else it's various flavors of Intel graphics.

So what are you saying? That a lineup of computers that never used top of the line GPUs is starting to use integrated solutions since they've finally become good enough to address the low-mid performance range Apple usually aims for, and this is somehow indicative that high end, expensive GPUs are going the way of the floppy?

It's proof of nothing. Well, other than the fact integrated GPUs are now officially "good enough". People who bought high end GPUs beforehand will still be buying them the same they always have. There isn't an integrated GPU out there that can match them yet.

Quite the opposite, the industry tends to keep everything on board way beyond its useful life time for backward compatibility. Only Apple abandons all technologies not useful in the future. Discrete GPUs in consumer Macs have already been replaced by something better, namely Intel GPUs. That switch lies behind us, not in front of us.

When serial ports and floppy drives went out of style, there was already a better solution in place to replace them. Floppies had disc burners, and serial ports had USB. Manufacturers kept them around for a bit because, yeah, backwards compatibility.

That's the point you're missing here. They were replaced because there was something better out. For now, integrated GPUs aren't better than discretes. They work for some people, but they don't work for all, and they certainly don't address every single need of the market. The only thing that's "switched" is the death of low end $50 GPUs. The high end is still very much alive and healthy (olol, but not in Mac World, watch me move that goalpost).

Wishful thinking is to ask if the new Mac mini will have discrete GPU. It won't.

Where did I ask for a Mac Mini to have a discrete GPU? Hell, I'd be shocked if it used an Iris Pro.
 
The one's with the option of an SSD or Fusion drive are PCIe SSD-based from the look of things.

I didn't mean to mislead you into thinking the whole iMac range were PCIe SSD across the board by default.

Its all good, always learning something new.

But with what you mentioned, then i don't think that they would make a mini with the PCIe SSD just yet, because not even the base model iMac has it yet. It would be weird to have a much more powerful piece of hardware in such an entry lvl machine. But i wouldn't mind being proved wrong, on the next update.
 
Its all good, always learning something new.

But with what you mentioned, then i don't think that they would make a mini with the PCIe SSD just yet, because not even the base model iMac has it yet. It would be weird to have a much more powerful piece of hardware in such an entry lvl machine. But i wouldn't mind being proved wrong, on the next update.

They only offer SSDs, PCIe or otherwise as a BTO option as a straight swap for the HDD or in a Fusion config on the iMac at present anyway so even if they managed to add PCIe SSDs to the Mac Mini, maybe with the connector on a daughter card, it would still not be the standard config on either the iMac or Mac Mini, just a built to order option.
 
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I have been waiting some time for Apple to redesign the Mac Mini. I would enjoy a desktop setup aside of my rMBP for college work.
 
They only offer SSDs, PCIe or otherwise as a BTO option as a straight swap for the HDD or in a Fusion config on the iMac at present anyway so even if they managed to add PCIe SSDs to the Mac Mini, maybe with the connector on a daughter card, it would still not be the standard config on either the iMac or Mac Mini, just a built to order option.

Alright. Well here's to hoping that we might see it on this next update. If they do, I'm wondering what the price would be.
 
Alright. Well here's to hoping that we might see it on this next update. If they do, I'm wondering what the price would be.

Given their track record. I'd hope It'll be identical to the current upgrade prices.

They went from charging £160 to swap a HDD for either a 256 SSD or an additional 128Gb SSD in a Fusion config to substituting the SSDs for PCIe SSDs at the same price points with the iMac so I imagine if they do upgrade the Mac Mini to have PCIe SSDs, they'd do the same.

I was only speculating that they could add PCIe SSDs in the first place. It may be that the Mac Mini is built to a cost and it's only ever going to have dual SATA bays. It'll still be a little power house once the Haswell CPUs are in there. The BTO Macbook Pro with the 2.6Ghz i7 is so rapid, the 64 bit multi-core Geekbench 3 score is over 14400 and that's only a mere 148 points lower than the quad 2013 Mac Pro!
 
So what are you saying?
Not what you keep hearing. Of course dGPUs continue to life in the MP and bottom-right MBP, that just isn't what consumers buy.
People who bought high end GPUs beforehand will still be buying them the same they always have. There isn't an integrated GPU out there that can match them yet.
And who cares? Surely not Mac buyers, who want their computer to just work and not to win some meaningless spec-race.
For now, integrated GPUs aren't better than discretes.
Sure they are, you just don't understand in which way they are better. Better doesn't mean faster. The faster GPU generally also is the hotter, more energy-consuming and more expensive one. The optimum can't be reached by maximizing speed only.
Where did I ask for a Mac Mini to have a discrete GPU?
You need to overcome your self-importance. This thread isn't about you and it isn't about high-end GPUs. It's about the Mac mini with a lower case m, because that's how tiny it is.
 
It's a shame they didn't release the updated Mini and new Thunderbolt display today...would have been the perfect time.
 
You need to overcome your self-importance. This thread isn't about you and it isn't about high-end GPUs. It's about the Mac mini with a lower case m, because that's how tiny it is.

Are you arguing with me, or with the weird wooshing sound in your head you're associating with me? Because right now, it feels more like you're talking at me, rather than addressing anything I've said in any logical sort of way.
 
You do realize that one USB controller can handle up to 127 devices, right? So really, you only need one port... well, maybe more, depending on your bandwidth needs, but the fact that your ports are "full" doesn't mean you don't have enough ports.

Some devices simply don't like being on the end of a USB hub chain. As one example, my GF has a dive computer that only communicates if it is plugged in directly to the USB port of her computer.

There is also the issue of power for devices that don't "conform" to the antiquated 500mA "standard".

If it brings a real video card instead of those crappy intel integrated graphics chips, I may consider buying one. Otherwise, forget about it!

Unless you are a hardcore gamer, the 5200/Iris Pro is the real deal for the form factor and price point. Check out the Anandtech review: http://www.anandtech.com/show/6993/intel-iris-pro-5200-graphics-review-core-i74950hq-tested

Worth noting from page 4, the GPU die on the 5200/quad core i7 is actually larger than the CPU die, 67% vs. 33%. :cool:
 
Are you arguing with me?
No. I'm not arguing with you, you are arguing with me. This is what I've said to someone asking about the possibility that the Mac mini might have dedicated graphics. You just couldn't let that go and needed to drag me in a conversation about dedicated vs. integrated graphics. I told you, I don't care. And I still don't.
 
No. I'm not arguing with you, you are arguing with me. This is what I've said to someone asking about the possibility that the Mac mini might have dedicated graphics. You just couldn't let that go and needed to drag me in a conversation about dedicated vs. integrated graphics. I told you, I don't care. And I still don't.

And you call me self important.

Even within the Apple bubble, your statement can be argued against, because the iMac still uses discrete graphics cards, and there's no evidence pro or con at the moment that Apple will go with integrated chips for the next generation.
 
Even within the Apple bubble, your statement can be argued against, because the iMac still uses discrete graphics cards, and there's no evidence pro or con at the moment that Apple will go with integrated chips for the next generation.
Not only is there plenty of evidence, the entry-level 21" iMac has already switched to Intel graphics.

Late 2012: Nvidia 640M with 512MB dedicated RAM.
Early 2013: Intel HD 4000 with 512MB dedicated RAM.
Late 2013: Intel Iris Pro 5200 up to 1GB shared RAM.

The trend is there whether you deny it or not. And it doesn't matter at all, if Nvidia GPUs continue to be faster. They are losing the consumer market anyway.

2 Reasons To Again Turn Neutral On NVidia

• An overall decline due to cannibalization by the mobile space (smartphones, tablets);
• And the risk that Intel (INTC) and Advanced Micro Devices (AMD) will make CPU+GPU integration on-die the standard.


Of course this analyst is also living in the Apple bubble. ;)
 
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Not only is there plenty of evidence, the entry-level 21" iMac has already switched to Intel graphics.

Late 2012: Nvidia 640M with 512MB dedicated RAM
Early 2013: Intel HD 4000 with 512MB dedicated RAM.
Late 2013: Intel Iris Pro 5200 with 1GB shared RAM.

The entry level, which is of course the cheapest option. If you intend on cutting cost for an entry level machine, going integrated is the way to go. That doesn't necessarily mean it's better, or even the immediate future.

The trend is there whether you deny it or not. And it doesn't matter at all, if Nvidia GPUs continue to be faster. They are loosing the consumer market anyway.

And like I've stated previously, the consumer market isn't all there is. The iMac works as a bridge between the Macbooks and Mac Pro, so unless Broadwell is tremendously faster, I doubt very seriously Apple will nix discrete GPUs in the iMacs.

Integrated GPUs have gotten better over the years, and they're now a viable option. This I don't doubt. They're great for people who don't need fast GPUs. But saying they're ready to replace a discrete GPU in a $1500+ AIO is completely ignorant. Hell, it'd alienate most the people who buy 27" iMacs.

2 Reasons To Again Turn Neutral On NVidia

• An overall decline due to cannibalization by the mobile space (smartphones, tablets);
• And the risk that Intel (INTC) and Advanced Micro Devices (AMD) will make CPU+GPU integration on-die the standard.


Of course this analyst is also living in the Apple bubble. ;)

Yeah, he brings up a lot of good points, and the future of integrated chips are one of them. But even he's not saying discrete GPUs are on their way out.
 
If you intend on cutting cost for an entry level machine, going integrated is the way to go. That doesn't necessarily mean it's better, or even the immediate future.
Surely 2013 isn't the immediate future, rather the immediate past. What makes you believe the better option will always prevail? Have you never heard of Betamax vs. VHS? Since when is cost cutting only important for entry-level?
But saying they're ready to replace a discrete GPU in a $1500+ AIO is completely ignorant. Hell, it'd alienate most the people who buy 27" iMacs.
No problem. $1500 AIOs will disappear anyway. Most likely 2014 will be the year Apple introduces iMacs with Retina Display and marks up the price to $2000 minimum. Should they decided to keep iMacs without Retina Display around as a cheaper alternative, of course they will go Intel graphics only.
Yeah, he brings up a lot of good points, and the future of integrated chips are one of them. But even he's not saying discrete GPUs are on their way out.
He only says there is a good chance/risk that CPU+GPU integration on-die will become the new standard. The opposite of standard is aberration and that's what dedicated graphics will become, when integrated are standard.
 
Firewire? Then it is definitely not a redesign. They would've gotten rid of it as soon as possible.

A lot of us have, compared to exSATA / USB3, very expensive FW800 equipment (external storage) purchased before the TB / USB3 age. FW800 should in no way be dropped.
 
$1500 AIOs will disappear anyway. Most likely 2014 will be the year Apple introduces iMacs with Retina Display and marks up the price to $2000 minimum.

You're saying Apple will take the base mac from $1300 to $2000. That's a 53% increase. And if that's the base model, that would put the high end models way into Mac Pro territory.

You've posted a lot of garbage in this thread, but that one was just too over the top ridiculous to let pass.
 
You're saying Apple will take the base mac from $1300 to $2000. That's a 53% increase. And if that's the base model, that would put the high end models way into Mac Pro territory.
I guess a $500 price increase (or even more) across the board for the first generation Retina iMacs wouldn't be exceptional. The first Retina MBP came in at $2200 without an entry-level 13-inch model even available. Not long ago a 4K display was priced at $4000. No way the iMac prices will stay where they are today. Also I suspect Apple to make PCIe SSD based Fusion Drives standard, no longer optional. So there is at least another $100 increase to the base price. Surely the new Retina iMacs with dedicated graphics will be way out of reach of penny-pinching consumers.
 
MacBook Air is all SSD and still starts at $999. When that first retina MBP arrived at $2200 they didn't eliminate cheaper models. Right now you can get a 13 inch retina for $1299. That's not a $500 increase over a previous 13 inch MBP, even with retina and SSD.
 
bad news

bad news, the belgian website put the links to the haswell-minis down!!!

maybe it was all a fake and the site just wanted to get more views :(
 
Most likely 2014 will be the year Apple introduces iMacs with Retina Display and marks up the price to $2000 minimum. Should they decided to keep iMacs without Retina Display around as a cheaper alternative, of course they will go Intel graphics only.

Marco Arment has some pretty interesting thoughts about technical requirements for a retina 27" iMac or Thunderbolt display. Basically, a 5120×2880 display (doable but still higher than 4K), DisplayPort 1.3 with 32 Gbit/second support (a year away) or the next generation of Thunderbolt, and GPUs with enough horsepower to support the new standards (who knows?).

A lot of us have, compared to exSATA / USB3, very expensive FW800 equipment (external storage) purchased before the TB / USB3 age. FW800 should in no way be dropped.

Many of the best audio interfaces are also FireWire. Not just in terms of bandwidth or FW having it's own I/O controller, but also the quality of integrated preamps.
 
I have always wondered why the Mac Mini isn't more popular.

People always complain that Mac's are too expensive yet you never hear anyone mention the Mac Mini. Isn't that the basic consumer Mac?

Apple neuters the little bugger. They refuse to give it capable hardware because of their hard on for the iMac.
I have a Mini and like it, they just need to get serious about it and give it discrete graphics and a decent hard drive.
Separate the power supply again if need be, just make it as capable as the form factor will allow.
 
Mac Mini out of stock at Amazon.com

Not sure what it means but Amazon ran out of stock of all configurations of the mac mini a couple of days ago and their website listed it as "usually ships in 1 to 2 months" and now it just says "Temporarily out of stock" Hmm
Hoping this is a sign that the new mini is on the way. Would love to see it assembled in the USA like the MacPro, wondering if that is part of the hang up? Also wishing for them to drop FW and add an extra TB2 port in its place to go along with a new TB2 display. In black please!!

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=sr_nr_n...st+version&ie=UTF8&qid=1390680892&rnid=493964
 
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Not sure what it means but Amazon ran out of stock of all configurations of the mac mini a couple of days ago and their website listed it as "usually ships in 1 to 2 months" and now it just says "Temporarily out of stock" Hmm
Hoping this is a sign that the new mini is on the way. Would love to see it assembled in the USA like the MacPro, wondering if that is part of the hang up? Also wishing for them to drop FW and add an extra TB2 port in its place to go along with a new TB2 display. In black please!!

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=sr_nr_n...st+version&ie=UTF8&qid=1390680892&rnid=493964

Really hope this means they're coming soon. I've had Amazon store credit and a wad of cash burning a hole in my pocket for months waiting for this Mac mini update.
 
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