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Below is a good guide. For your usage, 8gb should be sufficient.
View attachment 800146
That table is woefully out of date. How old is it?

2 GB is completely unusable in macOS these days and even 4 GB is sometimes a problem just for tabbed surfing. I’m not talking about 30 tabs either but more like 5-10 causing the dreaded spinning beach ball of death. I have a pure browsing machine which is only used in the kitchen for general surfing and online recipes - an older MacBook - and I would get that beach ball from time to time with 4 GB in High Sierra. However, those beach balls stopped completely when I upgraded the machine to 8 GB. Moderate multitasking with office applications benefits from 8 GB too, and sometimes more. Furthermore, sometimes one may want to do those things at the same time. And of course, if you have more than one user, you’ll need even more memory.

Maybe 16 GB is not necessary for everyone but say 12 GB can be a nice upgrade over 8 GB for many people. However, it’s impossible to buy a 12 GB Mac laptop these days so 16 it is.

That table might have been accurate 5 years ago, but in 2018, not so much.
 
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That table is woefully out of date. How old is it?

2 GB is completely unusable in macOS these days and even 4 GB is sometimes a problem just for tabbed surfing. Moderate multitasking with office applications benefits from 8 GB, and sometimes more.

Maybe 16 GB is not necessary but 10-12 GB is very nice. However, it’s impossible to buy a 12 GB Mac laptop these days so 16 it is.

jun 2018. idk about 2gb, my old 4gb macbook still runs fine with a few safari tab (it runs on older os though). my work MBP has 8gb and i havent run into any issues with large spreadsheets and multi-tasking. i usually run outlook, a few spreadsheets and word documents, powerpoint (sometimes), pdf, slack and chrome. my personal MBP has 16gb, and if i recall correctly, i usually use around 6gb. so at least the table is accurate based on my experience.

im not sure about gaming and photo editing, because i dont really do either of those, but OP doesnt either.
 
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jun 2018. idk about 2gb, my old 4gb macbook still runs fine with a few safari tab (it runs on older os though). my work MBP has 8gb and i havent run into any issues with large spreadsheets and multi-tasking. i usually run outlook, a few spreadsheets and word documents, powerpoint (sometimes), pdf, slack and chrome. my personal MBP has 16gb, and if i recall correctly, i usually use around 6gb. so at least the table is accurate based on my experience.

im not sure about gaming and photo editing, because i dont really do either of those, but OP doesnt either.
It’s not accurate. 2 GB makes me want to rip my hair out even if the computer is not doing anything substantial. Just surfing with a couple of tabs is an exercise in frustration with 2 GB in a modern version of macOS.

4 GB should be considered the absolute bare minimum. Any table that lists 2 GB as the minimum should be completely disregarded.
 
It’s not accurate. 2 GB makes me want to rip my hair out even if the computer is not doing anything substantial. Just surfing with a couple of tabs is an exercise in frustration with 2 GB in a modern version of macOS.

4 GB should be considered the absolute bare minimum. Any table that lists 2 GB as the minimum should be completely disregarded.

the article tests both macOS and windows. your experience in macOS doesnt suggest that the author is wrong. i cannot comment on it either because i havent used 2gb and windows in a very long time.

i posted the table because i like that the author has done specific testing to verify the ram requirements. but i didnt feel the need to fully establish the context of the article, because OP is only interested in 8 and 16gb. it is my experience that the 8 and 16gb portion are rather accurate. in any case all new macs come with at least 8gb, so who cares about the accuracy of 2 and 4gb? but eugw knows best.
 
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Did a fresh reboot, and loaded up Chrome with just two tabs, one with CNN and one with The Verge. Aside from Activity Monitor, NOTHING else. No other apps launched (aside from taking screen shots, if that counts) since the reboot.

RAM usage is 3 GB, with High Sierra.

Screen Shot 2018-11-04 at 11.59.31 PM.png


I didn't even try real surfing. When I launched Chrome, it took me to the Google Search page, and from there I typed in CNN and The Verge for the two tabs, and then left the pages as is. Then I launched Activity Monitor through Spotlight and waited for the memory usage to settle down while everything on those web pages loaded. Then I took the screen shot.
 
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As has been said, 16 GB will greatly increase the re-sale value of your machine.

And even if you don’t ever plan on selling it, $188 is well worth it for the peace of mind having 16 GB will provide you.

Absolutely go for 16 GB. If anything, I would cut down on the internal storage as that is infinitely upgradeable after purchase via thunderbolt 3. You can always add more storage. You can never add more RAM.

256 GB SSD and 16 GB RAM is my recommendation.
 
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As has been said, 16 GB will greatly increase the re-sale value of your machine.
.

That's actually not true. The base models almost always sell for a higher % of their initial price.

90% of people buying on 2nd hand sites aren't heavy users. They basically have no idea what the difference is between 8 and 16gb's. They just want the lower priced machine for each model.
 
Agreed. Usually the best resale value will be the lower end models, at least up to a point. 4 GB would be a problem, but 8 GB would sell well on the used market.

While 16 GB models would sell for more, as a percentage of original purchase price, it will retain less value. That said, even if it retains only say 40% of value, that represents 40% less of the price premium you effectively pay.
 
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I am comparing the cost of a new MacBook Air with a similar form factor 13", which these fit the bill. The fact that they employ 15W instead of a 7W doesn't help Apple's case in the pricing structure.

The folio is some weird leather project HP did, which will no doubt have added cost especially by way of R&D, so will have an inflated price.

I don't think it is unreasonable to have expected the base MBA to have started at $999, rather than $1199 with it's 128GB SSD.

That depends. For the MBA, no it won't help but that's because Apple uses 15w CPU's in the base model MBPs. I still don't think its fair fault Apple because they don't use a particular type of CPU in a model when they use it in another.

The CPU the MBP w/o touch bar is currently using is the CPU (7th gen dual core U series) the last X360 model used. The previous model MBP w/o touch bar used the same CPU (6 gen dual core U series) as the model X360 that proceeded that. (*similar but not identical CPU's).

So if Apple uses a 15w Whiskey Lake CPU its a safe bet it will be in the new MBP w/o touch bar like it has been.

The base model Spectre with i5 whiskey lake 8gb RAM 256gb SSD starts at 1149 and with 4k screen (for comparison) is $1349. The base model MBP without touch bar with 256gb SSD (for comparison) is 1499.

The form factor of the Spectre and Spectre X360 product lines fall between the MBA and MBP. However they favor the MBP due to the volume of the MBA with its wedge design and lighter weight. While the Spectre is wider, deeper it is a little thinner and light. I'm sure will go mostly unnoticed due to the MBP build quality and material.

Not sure what you mean about R&D. Apple created an alloy that is made of 100% recycled material and retains the original materials characteristics. That alone is more R&D than HP has put into any product and doesn't include how Apple aided in the mining process and help create the process used for 0% carbon free emission aluminum smelting process. I'm sure they will share the tech across their products but I can't find anything that redefines industries used in the Folio.

Upgrades is where Apple cleans up. Not just Macs either but all their products. They are ok with RAM in this circumstance because 16gb of RAM is only included when you upgrade the CPU with HP.

Apples SSD's are expensive. I can't say overpriced because I don't know what is involved with their proprietary implementation of them at this point (T2 chip is SSD controller doing real time encryption and decryption while maintaining higher throughput than the competition) but it seems excessive and overkill for the average user. However speed wise they seem to lead the pack.

I not debating the MBA price seems overpriced because I feel the same. However I don't see the value in the competitions products who offer more for less. I'm just looking at the 1799 MBA vs the 1799 MBP w/ touch bar, better screen, 2 more TB3 ports, etc. Is that RAM and storage worth MBP upgrade?
 
As I said in the other MBA RAM thread: the key is having a superfast SSD to offload any RAM deficiencies. The new MacBook Air has a crazy fast PCIe SSD (2000+ MB/s) that really should give people peace of mind about having 8GB of RAM. It makes almost no difference.

For demanding pro apps (eg. Logic with endless tracks) even 16GB would be nowhere near enough, hence all the crying about the 16GB limit with the 13" MBP.
 
As I said in the other MBA RAM thread: the key is having a superfast SSD to offload any RAM deficiencies. The new MacBook Air has a crazy fast PCIe SSD (2000+ MB/s) that really should give people peace of mind about having 8GB of RAM. It makes almost no difference.

For demanding pro apps (eg. Logic with endless tracks) even 16GB would be nowhere near enough, hence all the crying about the 16GB limit with the 13" MBP.
The fact that you posted peak sequential speed of the PCIe SSD indicates you don’t really know what you are talking apart. I’m no expert here either but I do know that the key here is latency, and the latency for data access on even a PCIe SSD is a couple of orders of magnitude slower than DRAM.

Will a PCIe SSD feel faster in this contest than a SATA III SSD? Yes. However, it’s still much, much slower than memory.

How can someone at home easily test this? Well, if they’re a 27” iMac owner, they can buy with 8 GB and run it for a while. Then they can install 3rd party RAM. I can’t say I have tested 8 vs 16 GB but I have tested 8 vs 24 GB on my 2017 iMac.
 
If you're unsure whether you need 16gb ram, you won't need it.

8gb is enough for your usage pattern. You're never going to feel a difference between 8gb and 16gb. So it's up to you whether that is worth $200.
 
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That depends. For the MBA, no it won't help but that's because Apple uses 15w CPU's in the base model MBPs. I still don't think its fair fault Apple because they don't use a particular type of CPU in a model when they use it in another.

Well Apple did previous use 15W in their Air, this is the first time they haven’t.

Meanwhile, the Pro’s historically didn’t have a 15W CPU, but they made that version as a cheap alternative and also highlighted it as a Air successor, comparing it to the old Air in the keynote. The nTB is an Air labelled as a Pro.

The CPU the MBP w/o touch bar is currently using is the CPU (7th gen dual core U series) the last X360 model used. The previous model MBP w/o touch bar used the same CPU (6 gen dual core U series) as the model X360 that proceeded that. (*similar but not identical CPU's).

So if Apple uses a 15w Whiskey Lake CPU its a safe bet it will be in the new MBP w/o touch bar like it has been.

I think they will kill off the nTB, hence why it makes even more sense for a 15W Air. They could have upgraded the nTB ages ago well before Whiskey Lake but didn’t - it would have also been a huge upgrade going to four cores. That alone tells me they don’t see a future in the nTB

The base model Spectre with i5 whiskey lake 8gb RAM 256gb SSD starts at 1149 and with 4k screen (for comparison) is $1349. The base model MBP without touch bar with 256gb SSD (for comparison) is 1499.

The form factor of the Spectre and Spectre X360 product lines fall between the MBA and MBP. However they favor the MBP due to the volume of the MBA with its wedge design and lighter weight. While the Spectre is wider, deeper it is a little thinner and light. I'm sure will go mostly unnoticed due to the MBP build quality and material.

The new Spectre is actually a larger than previous Spectre purposefully - they are going for performance rather than thinness.

If you look at the new Zenbook 13 or Zenbook U391FA, Lenovo S730 or XPS 9370, they are in the MBA territory in terms of volume, not nTB. I’m sure a couple of them are actually smaller than the Air which actually isn’t that small - I was hoping they would have made it distinctly smaller than the nTB rather than just wedging it. That made it even worse that they put such a lousy CPU in it. It was a lazy upgrade if you ask me, it’s practically identical to the nTB with a wedge, like WTF? This is what they want to release on the 10th anniversary of the Air?

Not sure what you mean about R&D. Apple created an alloy that is made of 100% recycled material and retains the original materials characteristics. That alone is more R&D than HP has put into any product and doesn't include how Apple aided in the mining process and help create the process used for 0% carbon free emission aluminum smelting process. I'm sure they will share the tech across their products but I can't find anything that redefines industries used in the Folio.

Too much speculation here of this new recycled aluminium vs design overhauls by the competition. I very much doubt this Air had even half the R&D. A lot of those carbon free processes already predate the Air. There is a good chance recycled metals are used across their product line, with this one merely being the first to use it for 100% of its construction.

Upgrades is where Apple cleans up. Not just Macs either but all their products. They are ok with RAM in this circumstance because 16gb of RAM is only included when you upgrade the CPU with HP.

Apples SSD's are expensive. I can't say overpriced because I don't know what is involved with their proprietary implementation of them at this point (T2 chip is SSD controller doing real time encryption and decryption while maintaining higher throughput than the competition) but it seems excessive and overkill for the average user. However speed wise they seem to lead the pack.

I not debating the MBA price seems overpriced because I feel the same. However I don't see the value in the competitions products who offer more for less. I'm just looking at the 1799 MBA vs the 1799 MBP w/ touch bar, better screen, 2 more TB3 ports, etc. Is that RAM and storage worth MBP upgrade?

In the end, I look at the new MBA around a XPS 9370, Lenovo S730, Zenbook S/13 and think, why is the MBA so far behind in form, function and still have a higher price tag?

This release was the most underwhelming release - you have to just go rewatch the 12” MacBook keynote and see how far Apple has fallen.

This machine is 90% old, the only thing new is a wedge.

It really deserves to start at $999 for a 128GB, and the SSD upgrade is too steep for 256GB at $200.

I hope this sells like hot cakes though, it will really highlight the keyboard issues when a lot more consumers are using it who seem to have a much louder voice. That should kick Apple into finally fixing it.
 
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The fact that you posted peak sequential speed of the PCIe SSD indicates you don’t really know what you are talking apart. I’m no expert here either but I do know that the key here is latency, and the latency for data access on even a PCIe SSD is a couple of orders of magnitude slower than DRAM.

Will a PCIe SSD feel faster in this contest than a SATA III SSD? Yes. However, it’s still much, much slower than memory.

How can someone at home easily test this? Well, if they’re a 27” iMac owner, they can buy with 8 GB and run it for a while. Then they can install 3rd party RAM. I can’t say I have tested 8 vs 16 GB but I have tested 8 vs 24 GB on my 2017 iMac.

You are right, I quoted the wrong spec, random read/write would be better. Yet my point still stands for normal use. With a MacBook Air from 2012 and 8GB RAM I can occasionally feel the paging to the disk while I don‘t with a 13" 2016 MBP.
 
Agreed. Usually the best resale value will be the lower end models, at least up to a point. 4 GB would be a problem, but 8 GB would sell well on the used market.


But the real question is when will 8 GB be viewed like 4 GB is today. I remember Macbook Air laptop shopping back in 2012 and the choice was 4GB or 8GB. I'm glad I went with 8GB. Same thing applies today IMO. It's almost 2019 and 8GB in a laptop that will run you over $1000 seems like a bad idea.
 
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But the real question is when will 8 GB be viewed like 4 GB is today. I remember Macbook Air laptop shopping back in 2012 and the choice was 4GB or 8GB. I'm glad I went with 8GB. Same thing applies today IMO. It's almost 2019 and 8GB in a laptop that will run you over $1000 seems like a bad idea.
That's a good point.

I've said before that my back-of-napkin estimation is that RAM usage increases by about 50% every 4 years or so. So, even if 6-8 GB RAM is perfect for someone right now, in 4-5 years that might be 9-12 GB.
 
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Well Apple did previous use 15W in their Air, this is the first time they haven’t.

Meanwhile, the Pro’s historically didn’t have a 15W CPU, but they made that version as a cheap alternative and also highlighted it as a Air successor, comparing it to the old Air in the keynote. The nTB is an Air labelled as a Pro.



I think they will kill off the nTB, hence why it makes even more sense for a 15W Air. They could have upgraded the nTB ages ago well before Whiskey Lake but didn’t - it would have also been a huge upgrade going to four cores. That alone tells me they don’t see a future in the nTB



The new Spectre is actually a larger than previous Spectre purposefully - they are going for performance rather than thinness.

If you look at the new Zenbook 13 or Zenbook U391FA, Lenovo S730 or XPS 9370, they are in the MBA territory in terms of volume, not nTB. I’m sure a couple of them are actually smaller than the Air which actually isn’t that small - I was hoping they would have made it distinctly smaller than the nTB rather than just wedging it. That made it even worse that they put such a lousy CPU in it. It was a lazy upgrade if you ask me, it’s practically identical to the nTB with a wedge, like WTF? This is what they want to release on the 10th anniversary of the Air?



Too much speculation here of this new recycled aluminium vs design overhauls by the competition. I very much doubt this Air had even half the R&D. A lot of those carbon free processes already predate the Air. There is a good chance recycled metals are used across their product line, with this one merely being the first to use it for 100% of its construction.



In the end, I look at the new MBA around a XPS 9370, Lenovo S730, Zenbook S/13 and think, why is the MBA so far behind in form, function and still have a higher price tag?

This release was the most underwhelming release - you have to just go rewatch the 12” MacBook keynote and see how far Apple has fallen.

This machine is 90% old, the only thing new is a wedge.

It really deserves to start at $999 for a 128GB, and the SSD upgrade is too steep for 256GB at $200.

I hope this sells like hot cakes though, it will really highlight the keyboard issues when a lot more consumers are using it who seem to have a much louder voice. That should kick Apple into finally fixing it.


Thanks for the reply!

Just some key things here that I don't find fully accurate.

The MBA has always used the lowest TDP CPU available that could power MacOS. Apple threw a wrench into the works with the nMB, which many assume they didn't want to kill the MBA that was still selling with such a controversial device (1 TB3 port). It wasn't until that time that sub 15 watt CPU could power MacOS though.

Regardless the MBA has always been the low power device of the line up. The current i5 they are using is marginally more powerful than the previous MBA's i5.

You are correct the R&D is speculation however neither of us have accurate data to conclusively say one way or the other. This will have to be something we agree to disagree on.

Are you checking these prices before getting upset with Apple? Dells SSD prices are on par with Apples with $550 for 1tb upgrade except without a proprietary SSD controller or anything like that.

Fairly spec'd out 9370 XPS 13 with 4K is nearly 2k!

Screen Shot 2018-11-08 at 11.41.11 AM.png


Screen Shot 2018-11-08 at 11.42.51 AM.png



The XPS is a smaller device however the i5 in the MBP is about 15-20% more powerful (28w vs 15w).

Its hard to even compare the prices of any of the XPS 13 unless you are willing to go with a 1080p screen. This is the lowest model that allows a screen upgrade from 1080p compared to a MBA with the same SSD size.

Screen Shot 2018-11-08 at 12.44.51 PM.png


Screen Shot 2018-11-08 at 12.46.06 PM.png


With those specs I would still go with the MBP w/ TB though!

To Dells credit I'm sure that is a good screen, the CPU is faster in any config than the MBA and the design is smaller than the MBP.

You want the MBA to be $999? Why not get the XPS 13 $899 version? You get an I3, 4gb of RAM @ 1866mhz, 128gb SSD and a 1080p monitor. lol

Screen Shot 2018-11-08 at 12.59.38 PM.png
 
I certainly hope 8GB is fine. I never ran into any issues with my old air, but I couldn't afford to upgrade it. I had a set amount I could spend. Gold 256 8GB for me. My iMac has 32 GB's, but can't get it to hit 9 lol in usage.
 
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