New MacBook Pros Reportedly Launching Alongside macOS 26.3

[tenthousandthings]

That still doesn't mean it's faulty... It's a design decision to help improve yields because with McM you can have smaller die chunks tied together. If the same silicon process is used, there is no difference in errors per wafer in either case, It's just that with smaller chips that you piece together with McM you can get better yield from the wafer overall as one error takes out a smaller chunk. The end product you are using is not faulty just because other chips on the wafer are bad, or because one CPU is disabled on your chip because of an error on the wafer. This process has been used FOREVER in silicon design and is called binning. That's how you get so many different tiers of chips from one piece of silicon. That doesn't magically stop being the case once McM is used...

AMD has been doing MCM for a while now, and when you buy a 6 core vs an 8 core, the silicon on the chip is identical, but the 6 core has two cores disabled, likely due to errors in the silicon die. But the 6 cores you were sold are not faulty, just the two that were disabled. But you were sold 6 cores and got what you paid for so the chip isn't faulty.

It’s important not to mix up two different things. TSMC’s SoIC (System on Integrated Chips) architecture is different from TSMC’s WMCM (Wafer-level Multi-Chip Module) packaging. They are not the same thing.

There are two rumors, both are well-founded and likely to be accurate.

The first rumor is that Apple is using SoIC architecture for M5 Pro/Max/Ultra. AMD was the first to use this, but Apple will now do so for its larger silicon.

The second rumor is that Apple will use WMCM packaging for A20/M6. WMCM is the successor to InFO-PoP, see here for a good overview, and note that the logic die in the package (along with memory and I/O dies) can be SoC or SoIC:

https://medium.com/@kumari.sushma661/tsmc-expands-wmcm-packaging-for-apples-2nm-chips-capacity-to-double-by-2027-fca4e1ca8c51

 

[HVDynamo]

Then how come Mac is still not making desktop and workstation grade GPU? That's because of SoC's faulty design which even Ultra Fusion can solve the problem. How about lack of ECC memory? Low yield and high price? Limited upgradability for specific chips? Limited power consumption? Lack of expandability? You name it.

SoC itself meant for mobiles, not laptops/desktops and yet telling me it's not faulty doesn't make sense at all.

and again. NONE of that means it's faulty. That's NOT what faulty means ffs. SoC isn't meant for mobiles or whatever, it just has tradeoffs, that's it. I'm done dude. It's one thing to hope they adjust the design to add those things you say are limited. I even agree they should in some cases. But that does NOT mean the current design is faulty, it's just not optimal for what YOU want.

 

[1d1otic]

and again. NONE of that means it's faulty. That's NOT what faulty means ffs. SoC isn't meant for mobiles or whatever, it just has tradeoffs, that's it. I'm done dude. It's one thing to hope they adjust the design to add those things you say are limited. I even agree they should in some cases. But that does NOT mean the current design is faulty, it's just not optimal for what YOU want.

I would say FAULTY, not trade-off cause it is a faulty in terms of chip design. Again, even Apple admitted by moving away from SoC which only proves myself correct.

 

[mdcmdcmdc]

Fadell created the iPod prototype and concept. Steve brought him in. Fadell was shopping the concept and its workings around silicon valley. Steve would take Fadell on walks talking about the future of Apple including the potential for Apple to make a car. Steve knew talent when he saw it. Fadell is a designed focused engineering personality. He collects watches and is passionate about how they look and work. You cannot teach such passion, it’s a born trait. Tony has put his hat in the ring and has said he’s available and willing for the position.

He’s the only former employee from Apple I’m aware of to create a multi-billion dollar hardware business that completely changed an industry (thermostats) where all existing plays were forced to innovate and copy his product.

Currently he’s from outside the company, so he will come in with fresh eyes and clear ideas. Something Apple needs right now. They appear somewhat rudderless at the top and it is because those at the top lack those innate qualities that cannot be thought. I’m suggesting him as CEO—at least until I hear a better suggestion.

Maybe, I never heard of the guy. But you didn't say "I think Fadell would be a great CEO because..." You said "I'd pick a CEO from outside the company tbh. Probably Fadell, unless I hear a better suggestion." That's putting the outside CEO as the highest consideration, before the specific example.

 

[HVDynamo]

It’s important not to mix up two different things. TSMC’s SoIC (System on Integrated Chips) architecture is different from TSMC’s WMCM (Wafer-level Multi-Chip Module) packaging. They are not the same thing.

There are two rumors, both are well-founded and likely to be accurate.

The first rumor is that Apple is using SoIC architecture for M5 Pro/Max/Ultra. AMD was the first to use this, but Apple will now do so for its larger silicon.

The second rumor is that Apple will use WMCM packaging for A20/M6. WMCM is the successor to InFO-PoP, see here for a good overview, and note that the logic die in the package (along with memory and I/O dies) can be SoC or SoIC:

https://medium.com/@kumari.sushma661/tsmc-expands-wmcm-packaging-for-apples-2nm-chips-capacity-to-double-by-2027-fca4e1ca8c51

That's a fair point. There are a lot of nuances in the way silicon is packaged these days. I'm just mostly astounded by that other guy's insistence that the current design is "faulty." I really don't understand why that guy is so determined to mis-use that term lol

 

[HVDynamo]

I would say FAULTY, not trade-off cause it is a faulty in terms of chip design. Again, even Apple admitted by moving away from SoC which only proves myself correct.

That does not prove you right. But I'm done arguing with you. Words have meaning for a reason... For whatever reason you've just decided to double down on being wrong. It's not worth my time.

 

[1d1otic]

That does not prove you right. But I'm done arguing with you. Words have meaning for a reason... For whatever reason you've just decided to double down on being wrong. It's not worth my time.

And yet, you failed to prove anything.

 

[zenmacx]

if this things confirmed to get the 5G cell chip in it, i'll totally upgrade my work M2 Max to an M5 Max just so i can use it in the field without worrying about hotspots.

The only complaint I have is lack of cellular connectivity on my 16” M4 Max MacBook Pro.

Conversely I’ve enjoyed cellular connectivity on my work issued ThinkPad for many years.

Apple’s repeated years long failure to address this shortcoming is mind boggling.

 

[Mac Fly (film)]

Maybe, I never heard of the guy. But you didn't say "I think Fadell would be a great CEO because..." You said "I'd pick a CEO from outside the company tbh. Probably Fadell, unless I hear a better suggestion." That's putting the outside CEO as the highest consideration, before the specific example.

What's your question?

 

[chucker23n1]

That's a fair point. There are a lot of nuances in the way silicon is packaged these days. I'm just mostly astounded by that other guy's insistence that the current design is "faulty." I really don't understand why that guy is so determined to mis-use that term lol

They're just unhappy with some of the design choices. Which is fair — Apple (clearly) can't easily do

• a "tower"
• a system with more GPU cores, or more CPU cores
• a system with flexible amounts of RAM

with their SoC approach. But for the vast, vast majority of systems, this approach serves them extremely well. It's second-to-none power efficiency, and high performance. It scales all the way from the Apple Watch to the Mac Studio. It arguably does not scale to the Mac Pro, but that's important to very, very few people (though high-revenue-per-customer people).

By my understanding, they're also mistaken that the rumors change much about this approach. It'll still be a single package.

 

[tenthousandthings]

By my understanding, they're also mistaken that the rumors change much about this approach. It'll still be a single package.

My own understanding lines up with this. SoC and SoIC have the same role inside the package. That’s why it’s so important to distinguish IC and/or UltraFusion from something like WMCM.

I think the biggest unknown is what Apple might do to achieve more flexibility/choice when it comes to connectivity and bandwidth for the Ultra, but it’s off topic for a News thread about M5 Pro/Max MacBook Pro.

 

[chucker23n1]

I think the biggest unknown is what Apple might do to achieve more flexibility/choice when it comes to connectivity and bandwidth for the Ultra,

What I'm picturing is similar to Meteor Lake:

If the goal is just to move the IO to a different "chip" (while leaving it on-package) in order to use a cheaper process node for that, I imagine that isn't a big issue.

But if they also move the GPU, especially with the goal to have higher-core-count options, that'll presumably increase latency. And where do you place the scheduler / whatever mechanism keeps memory in sync between both chips?

but it’s off topic for a News thread about M5 Pro/Max MacBook Pro.

Quite.

 

[mdcmdcmdc]

What's your question?

No question, just highlighting the fallacy in your statements.

Here's another name for you: Gil Amelio. Remember him?

It's not that I regret that I didn't have the foresight to buy a bunch of Apple stock when it was $17. Not too much, anyway.

It's that, the next time the "financial geniuses"--whose only vision for the company is what Wall Street tells them--are finished with it, there won't be a Steve Jobs to save it.

 

[Mac Fly (film)]

No question, just highlighting the fallacy in your statements.

Here's another name for you: Gil Amelio. Remember him?

It's not that I regret that I didn't have the foresight to buy a bunch of Apple stock when it was $17. Not too much, anyway.

It's that, the next time the "financial geniuses"--whose only vision for the company is what Wall Street tells them--are finished with it, there won't be a Steve Jobs to save it.

There is no fallacy in my wanting Fadell to be CEO. It’s my opinion.

Build: An Unorthodox Guide to Making Things Worth Making – An NYT Bestselling Entrepreneurship and Product Design Manual

Build: An Unorthodox Guide to Making Things Worth Making – An NYT Bestselling Entrepreneurship and Product Design Manual

www.amazon.com

 

[chucker23n1]

There is no fallacy is my wanting Fadell to be CEO. It’s my opinion.

Build: An Unorthodox Guide to Making Things Worth Making – An NYT Bestselling Entrepreneurship and Product Design Manual

Build: An Unorthodox Guide to Making Things Worth Making – An NYT Bestselling Entrepreneurship and Product Design Manual

www.amazon.com

Gee, I wonder what opinions Tony Fadell would have on Tony Fadell.

 

[Mac Fly (film)]

Gee, I wonder what opinions Tony Fadell would have on Tony Fadell.

Your passive aggressive tone is unhelpful. This isn’t Reddit. You don’t need to “win” the conversation.

 

[chucker23n1]

I guess I'm just curious, as is @mdcmdcmdc it seems, why you assume an external CEO would be better — when so far, the most successful products one (Jobs) and the most successful financial one (Cook) were both internal hires.

 

[8483011]

Then how come Mac is still not making desktop and workstation grade GPU? That's because of SoC's faulty design which even Ultra Fusion can solve the problem. How about lack of ECC memory? Low yield and high price? Limited upgradability for specific chips? Limited power consumption? Lack of expandability? You name it.

SoC itself meant for mobiles, not laptops/desktops and yet telling me it's not faulty doesn't make sense at all.

Product doesn't have features you think it should = faulty 🤣