New Media Content Distribution System?

[SPUY767]

People seem to forget. . .

Does anyone other than me realize that it is insanely easy to capture data streaming in from the internet? If Apple decides to stream movies exclusively, which I doubt they will, someone, likely from finland since they seem to be the ones with initiative, will just write an app that captures data on its way in from whatever port. Once captured, it had better have a good DRM scheme, and by this time, you may as well have just let the users download the whole thing to their hard drives to begin with.

 

[SPUY767]

I watch everything on a DLP HDTV.

Oh yeah, well my dad can beat up your dad.

There are forums to have pissing matches over whose TV is bigger. Thses are not they. Pleas redirect further such comments to. . . The AVS Forum

 

[MacWeenie]

I'm struggling with the idea myself...

My first reaction to this is negative... Sure seems like a concession to the studios to me. I'd probably buy the DVD rather than download a virtual copy. If it were for my iPod, I'd just rip it with Handbrake or some other tool.

I'd almost rather see it downloaded to my HD with the Fairplay DRM stuff that my music videos and iTunes AAC's have.

 

[artifex]

Yes, yes, yawn, blah.........
He's still right, smugness notwithstanding.

I'm assuming you read his response to the nonsensical assertion that a good film won't support repeated viewing.

Forgot all about that. He's right, some films get better with repeated viewing, and some simply never lose their charm.

 

[artifex]

Oh yeah, well my dad can beat up your dad.

There are forums to have pissing matches over whose TV is bigger. Thses are not they. Pleas redirect further such comments to. . . The AVS Forum

I watch everything on a 14 inch non-HDTV in my bedroom. Fear my budget limitations

 

[regan]

Its Begining....

Yup. Its begun.

My Dad used to say how in the future, the tv and computer would meld into one and that everyone would have a flat screen on their wall. He said this in the 80s before the internet and flat screens.

And its happening. Slowly but surely. Apple is moving in that direction big time. They nailed music...now its onto video. First the Front Row imacs, and video ipods...now rumours about the mac mini tv recorder and idisk on demand movies.

The technology is there...and will only get better. People thought no one would pay 99 cents a song...and look at itunes now. Video will be the same.

I remember when CDs came out and people said they missed all the big pull outs and space for liner notes that vinyl albums had. But CDs CRUSHED vinyl. Then when itunes/ipods came out...people said they'd miss all the space for liner notes of CDs. Ha!

I used to buy a CD a week. No longer. I still do on occassion...but nowhere near what I used to. I've made the transition to a purely digital music world. Same will happen with video.

But its interesting. I think Steve is TOTALLY right that music and video are different. Most people can listen to a song HUNDREDS of times, while watching their fav movie dozens...if that.

And yet...people DO love to collect video. I worked at a video store once, and people would come in like zombies and buy up the latest video collection of their favorite tv show, or movie or whatever. I don't know where you'd put it all...or ever have time to WATCH it all. I'm a filmmaker and I LOVE movies, but I never bought movies on VHS...and only a few films on DVD. I have a very small collection. Physical collections of movies are cumbersome and unrealistic.

Plus...you can listen to music anytime anywhere and while doing anything. Not so with movies. Its alot different. I think people want the ability to watch what they want when they want to. And if the price is right they will pay for that freedom.

I think apple will come up with a solution to the whole download/no download thing. Mobile video is not like mobile music...but people may want that freedom. Eventually it will happen. Maybe Apple will start off by building the media center aspect of a home unit and then expand from there. Video ipods are cool...but realistically...how many people will watch movies on a saturday night on them? A home media center with the ability to record tv and to order movies on demand sounds much more practical.

About laptops and watching wherever you go? Its nice to watch a DVD or video now and then on the road. But I don't want to carry around DVDS with me. I think having them on your HD is a great convenience. The whole internet thing will be resolved someday. Eventually there will be wireless internet access WHEREVER you go. But for now...its few and far between. So access to .mac while on the road may initially be difficult. I am sure apple will find a solution.

But whatever happens, I for one won't miss the music or video stores. I fully embrace a totally digital world. Being able to access what you want, when you want it is fantastic. I'm sure the big companies love the concept...even if the technology scares them. No overhead. Easy wireless distribution instead of ground transportation. And in a future of higher gas prices and oil shortages...thats not only economical...but good for the environment.

I just got a netflix account...and I think that its cool. Very convenient. Now imagine a digital version of that. Thats what apple wants...and that is just going to be amazing. To be able to download/or watch any movie any time from a virtual library. Pretty cool.

The whole downloadable/not downloadable issue is interesting. But it won't bug me at all if it starts off with just a rental strategy at first. It makes sense. Movies are more rentable. Music is more buyable.

My Dad was right. Its happening.

 

[macmax77]

Think Secret claims that Apple is set to unveil a new media content delivery system, which will include feature-length content, expanded televisions offerings, and more.

According to their source, the new system will rely on .Mac's iDisk for storage, keeping media files from ever being held locally on the purchaser's hard drive, utilizing the rumored Front Row 2.0.

In addition, Think Secret claims that Apple is poised to offer a number of new partnerships with various content providers, possibly including NBC, CBS and Paramount Pictures. Fox Filmed Entertainment has already gone on record as saying they were "open to" a deal with iTunes.

i hate the idea

Is this msft?

 

[regan]

I don't know why some people are so upset. If you look at this from a rental perspective there is NOTHING to be upset about at all. No lines. No waiting. Instant access to any movie you want.

But even if you look at it from a purchasing perspective...its still great! If the whole idisk...and no copy on your HD thing is true, why does that suck? You don't waste hard drive space. You can never lose the movies you do buy because there will be a catalog of them in your idisk. I think its brilliant.

I think the only people complaining are the laptop people. But I think this is premature. I'm sure apple has a solution to address this. If they have one for the video ipod...you know they will have one for the laptop owners.

Patience people.

itunes video will be just as popular as itunes itself.

Man...I SHOULD have bought aapl stock when it was $30 a share earlier this year. Bummer!

 

[revjay]

Yup. Its begun.

My Dad used to say how in the future, the tv and computer would meld into one and that everyone would have a flat screen on their wall. He said this in the 80s before the internet and flat screens.

And its happening. Slowly but surely. Apple is moving in that direction big time. They nailed music...now its onto video. First the Front Row imacs, and video ipods...now rumours about the mac mini tv recorder and idisk on demand movies.

The technology is there...and will only get better. People thought no one would pay 99 cents a song...and look at itunes now. Video will be the same.

I remember when CDs came out and people said they missed all the big pull outs and space for liner notes that vinyl albums had. But CDs CRUSHED vinyl. Then when itunes/ipods came out...people said they'd miss all the space for liner notes of CDs. Ha!

I used to buy a CD a week. No longer. I still do on occassion...but nowhere near what I used to. I've made the transition to a purely digital music world...

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but I believe a CD's "data" is ordered in 1's and 0's, therefore rendering that format "digital." I know this may come as a shock to you...but as soon as you put your vinyl and your 90 minute Maxell cassette tapes away, you joined the "purely digital music world."

On another topic...does your father have any insight for the next 25 years...what can I expect?

I too have seen this convergence coming for quite a while...I am a little mixed about it though. In my house, we have one family computer, shared by all 5 of us, one 'family sized' analog TV, and two 13" tv's (kitchen & bedroom). I'll take what I'm sure is coming, and try to afford the necessary gear...but I still want to just flick on the "boob-tube" and watch survivor, no menus, no fuss, no muss.

Back to the topic at hand...If this report is true, Apple is genius, and consumer pays for it twice...once for the priviledge of "using" the video, and once for a place to "store" it. Oh yeah...Apple controls that too! I do not think this concept will work. Consumers...even staunch (and sometimes blind) Apple supporters will see through this pay twice money grab, product control, that Jobs seems to be trying to take to a new level.

 

[Super Dave]

Does anyone other than me realize that it is insanely easy to capture data streaming in from the internet? If Apple decides to stream movies exclusively, which I doubt they will, someone, likely from finland since they seem to be the ones with initiative, will just write an app that captures data on its way in from whatever port. Once captured, it had better have a good DRM scheme, and by this time, you may as well have just let the users download the whole thing to their hard drives to begin with.

It sure is. With a VCR or DVD burner or whatever in between your computer and the TV. However, the same is true for a DVD player, yet the companies don't think that enough people will figure out the whole RF Modulator thing to make it worth worrying about.

As for on the computer itself, picture this. If the video is on your machine, people can copy everything the second they get a hack. If it's streamed, Apple can change the streaming software or offer updates automatically that break any recording hacks. So a hack comes out, a few people rip a few movies, and then Apple fixes a leak.

It's actually much safer than DVDs for the video industry because streams are not THAT ridiculously easy to copy, and Apple can fix the DRM after the fact.

David

 

[regan]

Oh...I knew CDs were digital. I was just illustrating the inevitability of change and how people grumble at first. People complained about CDs at first because they were digital...and that they had less space then albums for art and such.

Its really hard for people to let go of the comfortable and what they've been used to. Even if it is better.

But I wouldn't panic about chucking your tvs anytime soon. Progress is slow. This is apples first foray into such an area. It will be gradual...and fully compatible with your current media systems.

First it will be the media mini and front row and the video system these rumors are alluding to.

If it takes off...then you will see more and more intergration. I think it will be awhile before the average person puts their imac 20" imac where their tv used to be in the den or living room. Thats why I think the screenless mac mini is the perfect way to introduce this technology at first. A cheap unit you can place next to your tv to replace your vcr.

Sneaky apple...berry berry sneaaaaky. Bwah ha ha.

Then little by little, apple will market widescreen tv replacements...like the imac, but not for awhile. Although the wireless remote on the new imacs indicates their intention of replacing the tv as the entertainment center.

I mean why would you need a remote control if you were going to keep your imac on your desk where you'd be sitting right in front of it?

I think most people will continue to keep their imac on their desk for now...but a seperate mac mini replacing their tivo or vcr is very realistic.

 

[heisetax]

What have you bought then?

Booo! If I buy something, I want it on my hard drive for archival purposes.

This would only work in a lab where you can control line speed, quality & any other things that mean good useful downloads.

In the real world the internet will go down, beome slow, only available via 9600 baud modem, not at all available in your minivan with your 6 kids & spouse on a 2 week vacation with a lot of road time, what do you have? I thought the reason for purchasing audio or video was to allow you to legally listen &/or view the material where & when you want to. For this reason I find the iTunes Music Store to be useless as it puts too many reastrictions on my music. All I have from the Store is a few free songs. Because of that, iTunes restricts everything on my system. With the way it works there is no way that I would even given a passing thought to purchasing any video content that I could not at least store on my local system. Also there would probably be restrictions that would make iTunes restrictions look small in comparison.

This is not for me.

Bill the TaxMan

 

[regan]

What restrictions for itunes? I haven't had any issues with restrictions hindering my ability to listen to my songs anytime anywhere. I've been able to transfer all my songs between computers and various ipods without a problem.

My whole thought on the downloading issue is one of detachment. I know the movie companies are worried...just like the music companies were. But there will always be a way to get free content on the net. ALWAYS. Just like there was always a way to copy your friends CD or tape back in the day.

True the internet has increased that ability a million fold. BUT. People will still buy. Just look at the success of itunes music store.

Same will happen with itunes video. Most people want to watch movies at home with friends or family. Now you have basically 3 choices. You can either 1)go down to the video store and rent one. 2)Order one thru payper view, or 3) order one thru netflix.

The video store has a bigger selection and isn't limited to new releases like payperview....but you have to go out...and later you have to go return it.

Netflix is convenient in that you don't have to go out at all...but it takes a couple of days to get what you want.

Payperview is instantaneous...but limited to new releases.

SO. Obviously....wouldn't it be great to combine ALL the best things about the three things above? Sure it would. And thats what apple will go for.

 

[kcmac]

My favorite part about these type of threads is how quickly these thoughts occur;

A. Apple is stupid if they do this!
B. It will never work!
C. Is this Microsoft?
D. Worst thing to come from Apple ever!
E. This will kill those without the newest computer!

This can only mean that immediately after the announcement is made the same people will spew;

A. Insanely brilliant!
B. I've already ordered!
C. You go Apple!
D. Jobs is da man!
E. Bill Gates, eat our dust!

And of course we will see it on the front page of Time Magazine.

It's amazing how Apple always seems to start from ground zero with every new rumor or idea. Like they are newcomers, no track record, so failure is on the way.

Of course, afterwards, we saw it all coming. They must really be listening to us.

Carry on. This is fun as always.

 

[rtdunham]

...First i don't have any use for .mac so i don't care to pay for that, and 2nd as people have mentioned i want the content local for many reasons, one being what if my internet connection drops, i can't watch a show i've paid for. I would think this would be a nightmare for apple anyway, MASSIVE storage requirements if this takes off, a huge increase in necessary bandwith for them. For me to be interested in any of the content anyway it would have to be high quality or i don't see the purpose of getting it through this distribution method ( atleast for me ) and high quality shows especially going to HD at some point would make the storage requirements that much larger for apple.

I"m seeing two types of posts here. It seems there are two points of view: 1) people who don't see any opportunity for them with the current technology and 2) people expressing seemingly feasible strategies by which a dynamite new product/service could be realized.

But to me #1 seems Luddite-like, as shortsighted as people saying "well, there's obviously no way a photo could ever be transported from one place to another for viewing". But #2 seems highly optimistic, perhaps overly optimistic. I'm reminded of how hyped we are leaving steve's keynotes at Expo, our imaginations running amok with what we THINK he said, only to find that in practice it doesn't work quite as nicely.

On balance, apple's announcements have ended up pleasing me even with the occasions on which they fall short of what (I THINK) was promised. So i'm thinking, keep an open mind, listen to the people explaining why a new technologyi might work--and hope for the best. I would be great if apple could make a breakthrough on this front.

peace
terry

 

[ncoffey]

(SNIP)
And yet...people DO love to collect video. I worked at a video store once, and people would come in like zombies and buy up the latest video collection of their favorite tv show, or movie or whatever. I don't know where you'd put it all...or ever have time to WATCH it all. I'm a filmmaker and I LOVE movies, but I never bought movies on VHS...and only a few films on DVD. I have a very small collection. Physical collections of movies are cumbersome and unrealistic.
(SNIP)

I own probably a few dozen movies and TV shows that I know I will watch in the future when I haven't seen them in some time. The exception for me is Arrested Development, for which I have watched through seasons one and two about five times each. It's still funny every time.

I probably wouldn't use this service because the consistent bandwidth for something like this just doesn't exist here. It will in time but with HD players coming out in the spring (PS3/Blu-ray) I'll be less interested in downloading (or streaming) a movie than I will in picking up the blu-ray version of it. (Even if it does cost more)

 

[pubwvj]

I would think Apple of all people would understand that people want to own their content. Sure you would 'own' it, but if you cant access it without internet, do you really?

One word: SnapzPro

 

[rtdunham]

things you don't "have" on your hard drive

...With the amount of progress the internet has made over the years, it is quickly replacing most of the duties of regular computers, or supercomputers. Is there any difference between having your bits and bytes of data located on the internet, where it is invisibly and conveniently accessable on your computer to having those same bits and bytes on your Hard Drive? It is the same content either way.

Just a couple of examples besides music:

1. My banking information.
2. My mortgage information.
3. My brokerage information.
4. My hosted webpages and hundreds of photos linked to the webpage.
5. Increasingly, the biggest software companies--think Microsoft--are responding to the notion that applications will int he future be hosted online, and NOT maintained on your computer.

Conversely, I'm a watch-a-movie on my PB on the plane kind of guy. But we DO need to be more open minded about how the tools for our lives are changing. The link to the 2001 Slashdot article showing people's clue-less (I would have been at the time, too, perhaps) responses to the announcement of the very first iPod should function as a slap upside the head for many of us here.

peace
terry

 

[rtdunham]

a catchy name?

...a new program (iVideo?, iMedia??, I'm not coming up with anything catchy...

what about " imMedia " ? the suggestion of immediacy seems to work.

terry

 

[EricNau]

I don't like this...not one bit.

And personally, I don't think Apple would do this, but we'll see.
Wouldn't this leave out PC users from putting video on their iPod? Or is this just meant for front row?

Maybe, with a .mac subscription you have access to watch any videos Apple has on their servers for free, and then have the option to buy it and put it on your own HDD. Then, once you buy you are able to put it onto your iPod, or watch it on an airplane, ect.
But if Apple made it so you could watch 1 of 1000's of videos any time you wanted, this could very well complete the media experience (along with DVR on their computers).

 

[59031]

Wow-- USC-- congratulations. No wonder you are smug. You seem to have focused more on "criticism" than history and theory. Incidentally, my view of movie ownership is shared by a college dropout; Steve Jobs:

"Finally, Mr. Jobs noted, people just don’t consume music and movies the same way. You might listen to a certain song dozens or hundreds of times in your lifetime. But how many times in your life do you watch a movie? Most people probably wouldn’t watch even their favorite movies ten times in their lives, and therefore are don’t buy nearly as many movies as they do songs or CD’s."

LINK.

NEVER EVER LISTEN TO STEVE JOBS.

Quote (more or less): "People aren't interested in watching video on their iPods."

He's famous for making quotes and then turning 180 degrees on them.

Weak argument, rosalindavenue. Weak, weak, weak. (Where is the "shaking my head" icon?)

 

[59031]

Well, you must have gotten As in Snobbery class.

Every engineer knows that bumblebees can't fly, too, but they do. Learning theory doesn't make you an expert on feeling, nor is it a replacement for practical experience. Just like being in MENSA doesn't actually mean someone is smart. If you have to fall back on credentials, your position is not sufficiently credible on its own.

Rosalindavenue's comment about movies not worth watching over and over again, was just so ridiculous, so lame, so not-thought-out, just so DUMB, that I had to reply with something that obnoxious. In fact when I originally posted I left out the part about USC - then went back and added it later. I very self conciously knew it would be obnoxious, and that's why I flat out admitted smugness, and I did it all purpousely. I also was looking for an emoticon for "rolling eyes" but there didn't seem to be one, though now I see one that is probably it and just didn't recognize it at 2:30am (thought's it's not the best emoticon I've seen to convey that feeling/attitude).

As someone else said, some movies actually get better with repeated viewing, just like some music gets better with repeated listening and books with repeated reading, allowing you to appreciate all the subtle details and nuances and layers you may have missed the first time around, or to listen, read and hear things from different perspectives.

 

[poohat1000]

y'all are missng the point, idisk and .mac dont come into it - just like the trailers you can watch in front row there will be a "movies" section where you can pay a couple of dollers to stream and watch the movie online, front row will come in ilife 06 with this feature, aswell as in all new macs...

apple will do this to say to all the movie companies LOOK HOW WE'VE DONE THIS SOOOOO WELLL.... couple of months down the line and we'll get small h.264 content on the itunes store for DOWNLOAD....

frontrow for rent/stream and itunes for downloading content for the ipod.



i can't wait, frontrow will be the new cable television service. and itunes will be the new media shop :-D

no reason why these two services cannot co-exist together in perfect harmony

 

[poohat1000]

As someone else said, some movies actually get better with repeated viewing, just like some music gets better with repeated listening and books with repeated reading, allowing you to appreciate all the subtle details and nuances you may have missed the first time around, or to listen, read and hear things from different perspectives.

this is precisely why they need to get the price point right. on sky tv you can purchase a film and watch it once, it works - people do it - but to buy it on dvd is 3x the price. So i expect the itunes downlaodable media to cost more whereas one can rent it via front row for waaaay cheaper.... hell we could see feature films on frontrow before they are out on dvd/itunes store, like 2 weeks after they finish in the cinema - that would be amazing.

 

[EricNau]

NEVER EVER LISTEN TO STEVE JOBS.

Quote (more or less): "People aren't interested in watching video on their iPods."

He's famous for making quotes and then turning 180 degrees on them.

Weak argument, rosalindavenue. Weak, weak, weak. (Where is the "shaking my head" icon?)

If I recall properly, he never said people didn't want to watch video on their iPods, he said the content and purpose wasn't there yet. If you had bought a video mp3 player at that time, you couldn't do hardly anything with them, but when the iPod started to support video (to keep up with the market) they gave it the content and the purpose, now you can download over 2,000 music videos, and episodes from 5 different TV shows + much more.

Jobs is very careful about what he says, he always leaves anything open so he can do it without making a fool of himself.