MP 7,1 New MP - it's not for you. So who is it for?

[wallah]

It's so expensive, it's got more power than I could ever use, only pros who make money off it can justify buying it.

So, who are these pros? Let's get an actual list going of who or what companies will buy the new Mac Pro 7,1, ideally if you actually ordered one yourself (or your org did), or will soon.

I'm curious about the actual users, actual projects, beyond the generic 'high end video professionals'. There must be some neat use cases out there, if you're allowed to share ?. HEVPs welcome of course ?

Other than London trust fund kids, who else?

edit: actual user updates, next update after #100
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Friday the 13th evening update (from #52):

Hmm, so with about 50 posts in, this is who it's for. Actual users (with apologies for botching terminology), not speculating who:

digital artist/print designer (2)
still photographer
motion designer (2)
video production, maybe moving to 8K in coupla years
cenematography
audio pro (2)
photographers producing large-scale print, morphing to LCD displays (2)
3D mapping and scientific modelling
3d graphics
cash to burn
Logic Pro user
rocket engine simulations
security software dev
deep learning research
medical and other image processing
temporarily at least, some successful pro YouTubers
digital forensics and hash cracking, multiple GPU needs
the hackintosh / hobbyist segments

>> Above list updated Dec 15 (from #116 which lists links for other actual pro reviews).
>> Updated Dec 20 (from #174, covering why hackintosh/hobbyists added)

 

[vladi]

Its' for everyone and no one at the same time. If you are more comfortable with OSX then it's definitely for you. If you depend on Final Cuts and Logic then it's your only option. If you want to impress potential customers who come to your studio then it's a great selling tool. And of course if you are cliche creative youtuber selling a lifestyle then it's your bragging right much like in their case useless 8K cameras.

 

[Slash-2CPU]

I do point-cloud scans (3D mapping of real world spaces and objects). Most of the tasks are almost perfectly linear with increasing core count. I could use 200+ GB RAM with some current projects, and currently I’m limited by the RAM in my 5,1. I have to load objects from NVMe instead of keeping it all in RAM. One work file is typically 150GB on disk. I’ve had some 300+.

With more processing power and RAM, I can do higher resolution scans and/or keep same resolution and work much faster.

I also do fluid and thermodynamic modeling. Primarily gases, which means thermo and fluid are directly linked. This isn’t so large in RAM, but more bandwidth and more cores is again almost linearly faster.

I’ll buy at least one. Waiting on reviews and first quarter of paid beta testing. Seems that’s what manufacturers (not just Apple) do lately. Get in line so u can pay to test their newest products.

Also some of the custom software I use is still 32-bit. Having it rewritten for 64-bit Catalina will cost about as much as the Mac Pro.

 

[danwells]

Not for me - top-end 16" MBP for still photography with very large images (love having a notebook with 64 GB of RAM).

Some video-centric friends are very interested, and Hollywood probably loves the Mac Pro.

A lot of scientists like OS X, both because of preference, and because the big iron they might be communicating with runs some variety of UNIX, rather than Windows. A Mac is the best supported form of desktop UNIX, and University IT is happy to pay for it instead of messing with Linux desktops and dealing with documents that aren't in real Word coming out of the Physics department.

The Dean hates it when she gets some critical tenure document in semi-compatible OpenOffice, because the Physics chair's computer can't handle Word - and the Dean's response is generally to yell at IT. IT's answer to that is to buy Macs for the physicists, so they can have their UNIX and yet write letters to the Dean in Word. Some folks use their desktop computer to run full-scale models or large statistics. Others run smaller scale stuff on the desktop, then send the big run to a cluster or a Cray.

A whole truckload of them (well configured) has probably already pulled up to Fort Meade in Maryland, where a guy in a trench coat and fedora said " you can leave those right here - we won't be needing any support".

I once met an engineer from Cray and asked "where do you sell those things?". His response was "many of them to universities, companies or non-anonymous government agencies (National Weather Service, NASA, etc.) , where we send a support team in to work with the customer for months until they're happy - but sometimes to anonymous government buildings, where someone comes out in a trench coat and tells us that we need to leave the computer on the loading dock".

I suspect some of those same Federal agencies that have Crays delivered to the loading dock often buy really nice desktop computers - and some spies probably prefer to do their spying with Macs.

 

[Korican100]

video editor here. Weddings, corporate, and commercial events. The sheer power it provides for FCPX allows me to be as creative as possible by importing native camera codecs (not having to transcode to PRORES) and getting right into adding heavy effects with 4k 8bit, to 6k RAW footage, real time scrubbing and playback without constraints.

 

[blackadde]

I'm very curious about this question myself. From my perspective it's hard to imagine the use case for the MP aside from those that are locked into Apple-only software like FCPX, Logic, and the like. For them it must be a godsend.

2D Adobe stuff (PS, Illustrator, InDesign) is better suited for fast single-core setups with lots of cheap RAM. Neither the new MP or pro-grade Win10 workstation boxes are really appropriate.

My understanding is that most ML (Tensorflow) and 3D workflows require CUDA cores (Octane, Redshift, etc.) which the MP will not provide at any price. Presumably some progress will be (has been?) made adapting those specific workflows to Metal.

You also can't ignore the remarkable progress AMD has made recently with driving down the cost of high core count CPUs in the last year or two, so if you have a project that just needs a ton of cores without the differentiating factors between platforms (PCIE lanes, maximum RAM cap?) it's difficult to see the value proposition for the MP.

Apple basically abandoned the market since like 2013, so surely some large % of those professionals have moved onto Win10/*nix boxes if they had performance-sensitive work to do in the meantime - how comfortable are purchasing departments in shifting back to MacOS, and how confident are they that Apple will continue to support the MP going forward? What are Apple's service contracts usually like? Are they comparable to Dell/HP's workstation support?

(Personally, I'm guy who lives in Photoshop/Illustrator/Fusion360. I don't need a MP and long ago transitioned to a custom built HEDT Win10 box + MBP mixed environment.)

 

[chfilm]

Video editor and motion designer. Almost 99% of my clients are on mac, so if I’m to take a project home to my own system, or come in with my Mac I want the beefiest beast possible. Editing 2 or even 3x 4K Multicam streams for shows is bringing my trashcan to it’s knees. Plus my 5k displays are just too much for this machine. Premiere feels terribly sluggish.

 

[linuxcooldude]

I'm very curious about this question myself. From my perspective it's hard to imagine the use case for the MP aside from those that are locked into Apple-only software like FCPX, Logic, and the like. For them it must be a godsend.

2D Adobe stuff (PS, Illustrator, InDesign) is better suited for fast single-core setups with lots of cheap RAM. Neither the new MP or pro-grade Win10 workstation boxes are really appropriate.

My understanding is that most ML (Tensorflow) and 3D workflows require CUDA cores (Octane, Redshift, etc.) which the MP will not provide at any price. Presumably some progress will be (has been?) made adapting those specific workflows to Metal.

You also can't ignore the remarkable progress AMD has made recently with driving down the cost of high core count CPUs in the last year or two, so if you have a project that just needs a ton of cores without the differentiating factors between platforms (PCIE lanes, maximum RAM cap?) it's difficult to see the value proposition for the MP.

Apple basically abandoned the market since like 2013, so surely some large % of those professionals have moved onto Win10/*nix boxes if they had performance-sensitive work to do in the meantime - how comfortable are purchasing departments in shifting back to MacOS, and how confident are they that Apple will continue to support the MP going forward? What are Apple's service contracts usually like? Are they comparable to Dell/HP's workstation support?

(Personally, I'm guy who lives in Photoshop/Illustrator/Fusion360. I don't need a MP and long ago transitioned to a custom built HEDT Win10 box + MBP mixed environment.)

I remember seeing some fairly major support from third parties, RedShift & Maxon comes to mind.

https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2019...react-to-the-new-mac-pro-and-pro-display-xdr/

 

[blackadde]

I remember seeing some fairly major support from third parties, RedShift & Maxon comes to mind.

https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2019...react-to-the-new-mac-pro-and-pro-display-xdr/

That's cool! Curious to see how the benchmarks play out.

 

[defjam]

Apparently it's for YouTube bloggers as, as far as I can tell, they're the only one's who received test units from Apple.

 

[Biped]

It is basically going to be NAB folks.

I know university and compsci faculties like their macs, but I don't see them ( even with discounts ) stocking the offices with these. I saw very few imac pros on campuses, mostly imacs.

I dont know the mahindra map folks ( who recently collected the data for the apple maps update ) will snag any of these, even though they've used mac pros in the past. It doesn't make sense costs wise, nor physically.

I know a lot of people in the resource industries have moved to either windows, or moved their compute onto *nix, with lightweight macs as front ends, i don't expect them to go for the new pros either. The availability of supported software on mac, that a lot of these outfits used.. has dried up. No doubt in some small part to Apple being nowhere for nearly decade.

I know my company will not buy me one of these for my compute heavy workflow. We are probably going to snag either a dell/hpe server, and a macmini in the meantime.

Basically if you have a lot of money invested in custom softwares, you need roadmaps from your vendor as insurance on your investment.

 

[Average Pro]

For photography.

 

[macdos]

You mean the XDR screen? Mac Pro 7,1 is certainly not for photography, you can get by just as well with any Imac or Mini. There is nothing parallel whatsoever in photography workflows.

For photography.

 

[skippermonkey]

I'm doing 3D graphics, mainly for fun but occasionally paid. Of course a Threadripper PC would make much more sense, but I don't rely on it for income and I'm embedded in the macOS ecosystem – plus all the apps I need work on Mac, and there are exciting things in the pipeline.

 

[tevion5]

Do I need it? No

Is this the most practical purchase ever? No

Will it make using Logic Pro a spiritual experience? Yes

 

[dazzer21-2]

Apparently it's for YouTube bloggers as, as far as I can tell, they're the only ones who received test units from Apple.

Well, as far as MKBHD and Jonathon Morrison are concerned, they are high-profile tech/Apple devotees. Quite interesting, seeing as there are also a fair few others that do the same thing on a similar level, to see who Apple deemed well established enough to be given review units to use under an embargo. After all, YouTube is a window on the world - it makes sense. Not entirely sure what iJustine does to be in the same echelon, but to be fair she's been off my radar. But, for all, I found their thoughts on the systems pretty interesting, and Morrision's latest video showing it in a music production studio environment was quite enlightening. It's a shame that everyone raced to get to $52k first without thinking about what the thing is actually for... and then ran around with their hands in the air shouting 'Threadripper" at the top of their voices!!

 

[defjam]

Well, as far as MKBHD and Jonathon Morrison are concerned, they are high-profile tech/Apple devotees. Quite interesting, seeing as there are also a fair few others that do the same thing on a similar level, to see who Apple deemed well established enough to be given review units to use under an embargo. After all, YouTube is a window on the world - it makes sense. Not entirely sure what iJustine does to be in the same echelon, but to be fair she's been off my radar. But, for all, I found their thoughts on the systems pretty interesting, and Morrision's latest video showing it in a music production studio environment was quite enlightening. It's a shame that everyone raced to get to $52k first without thinking about what the thing is actually for... and then ran around with their hands in the air shouting 'Threadripper" at the top of their voices!!

I understand why Apple decided to ship some YouTube blogger an evaluation system; Visibility. What I find puzzling is why only to YouTube bloggers? We keep hearing that "Unless you're a professional, high end, professional user this thing is not for you". I can't imagine these three individual YouTube bloggers viewers consist of many "professional, high end" users which are the alleged target market for the 2019 Mac Pro.

As far as I can tell, at least at the time I made my original statement, no technical publication appears to have received an evaluation unit. I would think Apple would have provided a few to publications which focus on the intended market. I'm sure we'll start seeing reviews from such publications but I get the impression it will be because they purchased one to evaluate and were not provided one by Apple.

 

[thisisnotmyname]

I understand why Apple decided to ship some YouTube blogger an evaluation system; Visibility. What I find puzzling is why only to YouTube bloggers? We keep hearing that "Unless you're a professional, high end, professional user this thing is not for you". I can't imagine these three individual YouTube bloggers viewers consist of many "professional, high end" users which are the alleged target market for the 2019 Mac Pro.

As far as I can tell, at least at the time I made my original statement, no technical publication appears to have received an evaluation unit. I would think Apple would have provided a few to publications which focus on the intended market. I'm sure we'll start seeing reviews from such publications but I get the impression it will be because they purchased one to evaluate and were not provided one by Apple.

YouTubers by their nature are highly visible so that's what we're seeing but we also know at least Calvin Harris received one and given that I'd suspect others high end, professional users in industry did too.

 

[defjam]

YouTubers by their nature are highly visible so that's what we're seeing but we also know at least Calvin Harris received one and given that I'd suspect others high end, professional users in industry did too.

There's no doubt some high end, professional users received some before Tuesday. However I'm curious as to why sites like AnandTech, as far as I can tell, did not receive any.

 

[MistrSynistr]

The pros not wanting to use Windoze are going to gobble this up. In fact, their companies will buy rounds and rounds of these.

 

[Macshroomer]

You mean the XDR screen? Mac Pro 7,1 is certainly not for photography, you can get by just as well with any Imac or Mini. There is nothing parallel whatsoever in photography workflows.

I think actual workflow benchmarks will prove otherwise. Not all photographers work the same either and many diversify their revenue streams by offering video.

 

[theluggage]

It's so expensive, it's got more power than I could ever use, only pros who make money off it can justify buying it.

It depends which "it" you mean.

The configurations costing $30k - $50k are for users in the video, 3D, scientific fields who actually need 28 cores, 1TB+ of RAM, quad GPUs and FPGA accelerators. That's not so extrordinary for specialist PC workstations with that kind of spec, although its hard to judge the value because:

(a) Apple are 'early adopters' of the new Xeon W chips which have increased I/O and RAM capability of single Xeon configs - most of the PC Xeon workstations with comparable PCIe and RAM capacities currently out there are dual Xeon systems (which means you can has 56 cores if you like...) and

(b) if you're paying a quarter million bucks to get a bunch of these for your film studio, you don't expect to pay freaking retail - you write down specs you want and send out for competitive quotes - or at least call your regular supplier with whom you already have valuable business and ask for their best deal. Mostly you'll be looking for a package with guaranteed-response support, and probably leasing rather than buying (which can be more tax efficient). Ludicrous 'retail' prices with discounts offered to any business with a pulse that opens an account is a common practice in "professional" supplies of all sorts.

...if you go to the "Buy Mac Pro" page on apple.com and wipe the drool off the screen you'll see that even Apple are advising small businesses to register for better deals - first time I've seen Apple doing this. Lets just say that I strongly suspect that a lot of those "$999" stands, "$400" wheels and $call XDR cleaning cloths are going to get thrown in as deal sweeteners. What the real prices are, only "serious callers" will ever know.

However, then there's the other group of customers - those who just want a Mac OS system with the power of a high-end iMac/low-end iMac Pro but with the flexibility to choose their own displays and single/dual GPU, maybe add extra internal storage and upgradable RAM... In the past that's been catered for by the entry-level Mac Pro starting at around $3k (taken, in the case of the trashcan, with a glass of Kool Aid regarding the now-admitted failures of that design, but at least it was there) - but now Apple apparently just don't want your business - because the spec and price of the $6k entry MP makes no sense whatsoever unless you're going to add $10k+ worth of expansion. Apple have got it into their heads that the only point of "modular" is moarrrrr powwweerr!!!

That seems like a "courageous", cost-of-everything-value-of-nothing decision by Apple - because that group is going to include a lot of developers and other evangelistic (& deep pocketed) Mac hobbyists (the sort that provide unofficial tech support to friends, family and colleagues). If they defect to Windows or Linux then they're probably not coming back.

 

[vel0city]

Self employed digital artist/graphic designer working for the entertainment industry here. Movie posters, album art, style frames, concept art, matte paintings. Cinema 4D, ZBrush, Photoshop, Substance, Octane, Redshift, occasionally Keyshot. Buy all my own equipment and will be getting a new Mac Pro and XDR display in the new year. Windows not an option.

 

[Ph.D.]

It's also for filthy-rich folk like me that just want a nice, expandable tower again, like my fondly-remembered 3,1 was, to surf the net on.

Actually I do some "real" work too, but on a linux machine. I'm doubtful I even could switch back at this point, but I have a mMP on order anyway for some foolish reason. It just better arrive before the end of the year or I'll lose it as a business deduction. Sigh.

 

[dpny]

It's for running VX software which costs US$10K/seat. For the companies which buy it, the Mac Pro will be the smallest line item in their budget.

We've long since passed the point where most users need a machine that powerful. Photoshop used to be the benchmark for pro usage, but a Mac mini with enough RAM is all you need for retouching now. You can edit 4K YouTube/GoPro videos on a MBP or an iMac, mix music on your laptop, blah blah blah. This is a machine for 5% of Mac users and I am a little jealous.