Home New Nest Camera Hardware

[Itinj24]

So Google just announced some new Nest cameras that look great and have some cool functionality but I see or hear no mention of the “Matter” protocol. Google is supposed to be spearheading it and a major player along with Apple and Amazon. I believe they only announced “Matter” for the thermostats.

“Matter” is going to end up being more convoluted than just having separate Home automation frameworks. I figured now would be a great time to incorporate this into your hardware being that Apple announced it at WW. Maybe it just needs a firmware update when the time comes. We shall see.

 

[TonyC28]

Finally a battery powered Nest camera. Now do I dive deeper into their ecosystem???

 

[Itinj24]

Finally a battery powered Nest camera. Now do I dive deeper into their ecosystem???

Best looking cameras on the market and Starling has been rock solid for the past year since I had it but with the unlimited HKSV cap coming in iOS 15, this is, unfortunately, a non starter for me. I mean, how do you launch a huge home automation alliance like Matter and completely forget to implement it in your newest camera lineup? Lol. Thread is non existent either which is another let down for these. My Logitech Circle 2’s are my most unreliable accessories (along with Wemo Mini plugs) so I was really hoping for a lineup of new cams with Thread support.

Of course, those two features may be irrelevant to some. I’m just venting since I really love my Nest Hello and was finally hoping for native HomeKit support for the doorbell and their other cams.

 

[Itinj24]

Here’s another take on them…

 

[srl7741]

I was very disappointed in what they released, it's a step backwards in many ways. Battery powered cameras are a non starter. The last thing I want to do is get a ladder/step stool out every 1-3 months and take down cameras to charge for hours. What were they thinking? Yes you can hard wire them too but they did away with the usb-c type cord and introduced yet another type of cable. I could have just un-plugged the old and plugged in the new if they had kept the same cable.

They remain strictly in the Google ecosystem (at this time) and yes no mention of Matter compliance or Thread.
If Logitech releases another updated camera for HK this year it won't take much for me to pull down all my Nest Cameras and replace them with a HK camera.

 

[Itinj24]

If they weren’t adding HomeKit/Matter, which caps out resolution at 1080p, they should’ve at least made these cameras 4K or 2K at the very least to keep up with the times.

I’m paying for Apple One Premier, Logi Circle Safe and Nest Aware because of the 5 camera cap for HKSV. Now with the unlimited cameras, I only need one subscription and the Nest Hello is coming down once iOS 15 is out for public release. Unlimited HKSV was the biggest news (for me) at WW. I think I was even clapping at the TV haha.

Just bummed because I think the Nest cams are solid.

 

[TonyC28]

I wish nest recording wasn’t so much better than HSV because it would make the decision that much easier. Does anyone know if iOS 15 will allow two users to view the same live video stream at one time?

 

[Itinj24]

I wish nest recording wasn’t so much better than HSV because it would make the decision that much easier. Does anyone know if iOS 15 will allow two users to view the same live video stream at one time?

The only thing I don’t like about the Nest recordings is that you can only skip ahead/back in 15 second increments. Would be nice to be able to scrub the video… unless I’m missing something.

 

[TonyC28]

The only thing I don’t like about the Nest recordings is that you can only skip ahead/back in 15 second increments. Would be nice to be able to scrub the video… unless I’m missing something.

If you tap the vertical lines that will take you from events to a full recording.

 

[Itinj24]

If you tap the vertical lines that will take you from events to a full recording. View attachment 1817472

Well well well… thanks for that!

 

[TonyC28]

Well well well… thanks for that!

Glad to help. It's a nice feature because then you aren't left totally relying on the camera getting it right with detection. The way things are going I feel like I'm going to be stuck with Nest for some products and everything else on HomeKit. And that isn't that big of a deal really. Starling pretty much solves that anyway. For me it's mostly psychological because I would be losing features going from Nest to HSV, but they are features I rarely use.

 

[Itinj24]

Glad to help. It's a nice feature because then you aren't left totally relying on the camera getting it right with detection. The way things are going I feel like I'm going to be stuck with Nest for some products and everything else on HomeKit. And that isn't that big of a deal really. Starling pretty much solves that anyway. For me it's mostly psychological because I would be losing features going from Nest to HSV, but they are features I rarely use.

What features would you be losing, out of curiosity?

 

[TonyC28]

What features would you be losing, out of curiosity?

Video scrubbing and multi-person simultaneous viewing.

 

[Itinj24]

Ah, gotchya. You can scrub a recording with HSV but I don’t know, don’t think, any HSV cams have 24/7 recording.

The multi stream viewing is definitely nice too. My wife always frequented the Logi app and I used HomeKit so it was never an issue before but I imagine it will be once we convert fully to HSV. I’m sure (I hope) that will be on the roadmap for HomeKit. Not gonna lie, completely surprised by the unlimited cams announcement but I thought multi stream viewing would’ve came first.

 

[Itinj24]

Well, I guess this explains why no “Matter” integration…

Apple-backed 'Matter' smart home standard delayed until 2022

The final specification of Matter, the smart home interoperability protocol backed by Apple, Google, and Amazon, has been delayed. Matter…

macdailynews.com

 

[cynics]

If they weren’t adding HomeKit/Matter, which caps out resolution at 1080p, they should’ve at least made these cameras 4K or 2K at the very least to keep up with the times.

I’m paying for Apple One Premier, Logi Circle Safe and Nest Aware because of the 5 camera cap for HKSV. Now with the unlimited cameras, I only need one subscription and the Nest Hello is coming down once iOS 15 is out for public release. Unlimited HKSV was the biggest news (for me) at WW. I think I was even clapping at the TV haha.

Just bummed because I think the Nest cams are solid.

This is a small sample but left is a 24 second clip from a Logitech Circle 2 outside and right is a 1:11 clip from an Eufy cam in my office.



Those are 1080p encoded h264 high level 4 videos and even with sound bitrate is around 1mbps.

Too much detail is lost at that level of compression, not what you want for a security camera.

That is a FullHD resolution using a bitrate that would only be considered good enough for 360p.

This is 1.5mbps frame.


This is the same resolution at 5mbps frame


The reason I said all that was to say this, 1080p from IP cameras (cloud based) leave A LOT to be desired even at their current resolution. A resolution increase currently is well past the point of diminishing returns. No doubt there will be improvement but we are talking 2-4x more data for improvements you'd have to compare side by side to see.

Manufacturers are incentivized to use the bare minimum bitrate to minimize bandwidth, less data for them to store the less it cost them. This is a problem, these are security cameras. Commercially available CCTV cameras use more efficient encoders

The other problem is the bandwidth on our end. Streaming 4-5 1080p video that are 4-5mbps would congest a lot of peoples networks, 25mbps up.... IP cameras can kill network performance even at their bitrates now, let alone where they need to be.

Only solution I see is manufacturers start using higher efficient encoders so more data can be compressed into the same space.

 

[Itinj24]

This is a small sample but left is a 24 second clip from a Logitech Circle 2 outside and right is a 1:11 clip from an Eufy cam in my office.

View attachment 1818563View attachment 1818564

Those are 1080p encoded h264 high level 4 videos and even with sound bitrate is around 1mbps.

Too much detail is lost at that level of compression, not what you want for a security camera.

That is a FullHD resolution using a bitrate that would only be considered good enough for 360p.

This is 1.5mbps frame.
View attachment 1818604

This is the same resolution at 5mbps frame
View attachment 1818605

The reason I said all that was to say this, 1080p from IP cameras (cloud based) leave A LOT to be desired even at their current resolution. A resolution increase currently is well past the point of diminishing returns. No doubt there will be improvement but we are talking 2-4x more data for improvements you'd have to compare side by side to see.

Manufacturers are incentivized to use the bare minimum bitrate to minimize bandwidth, less data for them to store the less it cost them. This is a problem, these are security cameras. Commercially available CCTV cameras use more efficient encoders

The other problem is the bandwidth on our end. Streaming 4-5 1080p video that are 4-5mbps would congest a lot of peoples networks, 25mbps up.... IP cameras can kill network performance even at their bitrates now, let alone where they need to be.

Only solution I see is manufacturers start using higher efficient encoders so more data can be compressed into the same space.

Very excellent explanation!

 

[flynz4]

Do these new wireless Google cameras require a Google Hub, or do they work standalone with the Nest App the same as the older wired cameras?

I already have Nest cameras, doorbell, thermostat and I have the camera subscription. The ONLY reason I want another camera is to be able to see the dead spot near my front door directly under the Nest doorbell. Currently, if a package has been delivered to that location, I cannot see it if the UPS/FedEx/Amazon person put it directly under the doorbell, which is what the often do.

A wireless camera would be OK for that location, as it is not a critical element of my total security system. Actually, wireless is preferred because it would be a difficult place to instal a wired camera.

Someplace, I THINK I read that the new wireless cameras did not operate unless you had a Google Hub, which I don’t have, and don’t really care to have.

/Jim

 

[flynz4]

Do these new wireless Google cameras require a Google Hub, or do they work standalone with the Nest App the same as the older wired cameras?

I already have Nest cameras, doorbell, thermostat and I have the camera subscription. The ONLY reason I want another camera is to be able to see the dead spot near my front door directly under the Nest doorbell. Currently, if a package has been delivered to that location, I cannot see it if the UPS/FedEx/Amazon person put it directly under the doorbell, which is what the often do.

A wireless camera would be OK for that location, as it is not a critical element of my total security system. Actually, wireless is preferred because it would be a difficult place to instal a wired camera.

Someplace, I THINK I read that the new wireless cameras did not operate unless you had a Google Hub, which I don’t have, and don’t really care to have.

/Jim

Answering my own question — From the Google site:

Requires the Google Home app and a Google Account – not compatible with the Nest app or the home.nest.com site.

I wouldn’t be able to see this camera from the Nest App, but I would be able to see it (and everything else) from the Google App. I like the Nest app better, but I would only using this to see the immediate area around my front door.

More importantly, I do not need need a Google Hub, which I really prefer to not have.

I also learned that I would be able to view live video on demand (which is my need), but I would not get live 24/7 video storage, just storage of video events. That is OK… it is not part of my overall security setup.

I am going to order one. Now I will be able to see if a package is anywhere near my front door, including the current blind spot. I’ll be able to call a neighbor to pick up my package if I am not available.

/Jim

 

[Itinj24]

Do these new wireless Google cameras require a Google Hub, or do they work standalone with the Nest App the same as the older wired cameras?

I already have Nest cameras, doorbell, thermostat and I have the camera subscription. The ONLY reason I want another camera is to be able to see the dead spot near my front door directly under the Nest doorbell. Currently, if a package has been delivered to that location, I cannot see it if the UPS/FedEx/Amazon person put it directly under the doorbell, which is what the often do.

A wireless camera would be OK for that location, as it is not a critical element of my total security system. Actually, wireless is preferred because it would be a difficult place to instal a wired camera.

Someplace, I THINK I read that the new wireless cameras did not operate unless you had a Google Hub, which I don’t have, and don’t really care to have.

/Jim

I had a Nest Hello doorbell and got a downward angled mount to see more of the front porch in front of my door. A lot of these doorbells, including the Logitech View I’m using now, are looking too much at unnecessary sky. Don’t really care about the airplanes but I do care what’s in front of my doorstep. It worked pretty well. I have three steps up leading to my front door and got everything I needed in the image so YMMV.

HOLACA Angle Mount for Google Nest Hello Doorbell with Downward 10&20 Degree Wedge,Wll Plate Cover Mounting Bracket Kit compatible with Nest Hello Video Doorbell (White) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B083B84T1...abc_QTDXZ2KPJ4YN5QDJZDB6?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

 

[Itinj24]

Answering my own question — From the Google site:

Requires the Google Home app and a Google Account – not compatible with the Nest app or the home.nest.com site.

I wouldn’t be able to see this camera from the Nest App, but I would be able to see it (and everything else) from the Google App. I like the Nest app better, but I would only using this to see the immediate area around my front door.

More importantly, I do not need need a Google Hub, which I really prefer to not have.

I also learned that I would be able to view live video on demand (which is my need), but I would not get live video storage, just storage of video events. That is OK… it is not part of my overall security setup.

I am going to order one. Now I will be able to see if a package is anywhere near my front door, including the current blind spot. I’ll be able to call a neighbor to pick up my package if I am not available.

/Jim

And It’s absolutely ridiculous that the Nest Protects (Smoke/CO detectors) are not exposed to the Google Home app yet.

 

[flynz4]

I had a Nest Hello doorbell and got a downward angled mount to see more of the front porch in front of my door. A lot of these doorbells, including the Logitech View I’m using now, are looking too much at unnecessary sky. Don’t really care about the airplanes but I do care what’s in front of my doorstep. It worked pretty well. I have three steps up leading to my front door and got everything I needed in the image so YMMV.

HOLACA Angle Mount for Google Nest Hello Doorbell with Downward 10&20 Degree Wedge,Wll Plate Cover Mounting Bracket Kit compatible with Nest Hello Video Doorbell (White) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B083B84T1...abc_QTDXZ2KPJ4YN5QDJZDB6?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

Thanks, I have looked at these, and I do not think that it will be quite good enough. My entryway is a covered 3.5 sided enclosed area, and the doorbell is on a side wall perpendicular to the door. I’ve had delivery people put padded envelopes leaning against the wall directly under the doorbell.

I am planning to put the wireless camera up high on the opposite wall from the doorbell. Between the camera, and the doorbell, It will have complete coverage of the entryway. All I want to do is see if a package is there, so I can call a neighbor to pick it up for me. I’ll charge it once a month, or before each trip. It will be angled in toward the door so it does not see many events, keeping the battery operable for a long time. I’m 6’7” (2m) so it can be high, and I still wont need a ladder.