New OS X in 2004? Would you upgrade?

[spaceballl]

Originally posted by gopher
You can count on 10.4 to only run on G4s and G5s.

You can count on that being wrong... Apple still sells G3 iBooks in their refurb section. They're not going to obsolete a customer, refurb or not, in one year. Furthermore, each version of OSX has gotten faster and faster on older computers. They're on a roll. Whey would they just give up now?
-Kevin

 

[johnnyjibbs]

Yes, I doubt they'll drop support for the G3, maybe people should start worrying if they have a B&W though as I think that's pretty much bottom of the Panther food chain now and, oh year, clamshell iBooks. Maybe built-in FireWire will become the requirement, as someone else said. Or maybe graphics power...

 

[Powerbook G5]

If they are going to go up against Longhorn, I'll have to venture a guess that if anything, a beefier 3D card that can handle Quartz Extreme or a newer update to the graphics engine will be required since the "revolutionary graphics engine" is what so many Windows users seem to be the most excited with. If MS were to do a tech demo right before releasing Longhorn, then Jobs were to go into a keynote and blow them away with 10.4 having a graphics system that leapfrogs it without a sweat, all those people out there waiting to see if Longhorn is all that may find themselves suddenly wondering why OS X is still so much better and that'll be something that could solidify once and for all that OS X is the best OS for the modern day power users who want the best of everything.

 

[spercharged69]

Originally posted by Powerbook G5
If they are going to go up against Longhorn, I'll have to venture a guess that if anything, a beefier 3D card that can handle Quartz Extreme or a newer update to the graphics engine will be required since the "revolutionary graphics engine" is what so many Windows users seem to be the most excited with. If MS were to do a tech demo right before releasing Longhorn, then Jobs were to go into a keynote and blow them away with 10.4 having a graphics system that leapfrogs it without a sweat, all those people out there waiting to see if Longhorn is all that may find themselves suddenly wondering why OS X is still so much better and that'll be something that could solidify once and for all that OS X is the best OS for the modern day power users who want the best of everything.

PBG5 I could not agree more. I can't wait until M$ releases it's new "revolutionary" COWHORN operating system in a gigantic press conference, which Bill Gate$ will no doubt spend millions on, to showcase their version of 10.1. Ohh it will surely be a great day to be a Mac user.

I can't wait, because, on the next Keynote, our lord and master, THE ALMIGHTY STEVE JOBS (CEO of Pixar <3) will unveil a new operating system that will shake the very foundations of Earth in an operating revolution not seen since the invention of the 'window' (which M$ stole I might add). I would liken it to the second coming of a operating system christ, to save all the sinners running M$ software.

I just hope Apple can price their machines at a price point that when CLOWNHORN is released, the legions of disappointed M$ followers and businesses can hop aboard the wonderful cruise ship that is Apple Computers without taking on too much debt. (One thing this country needs less of, with that crook Bush in office.)

So in conclusion I hope that 10.4 is released on the same day that BURGERHORN is, that way when all the PC zealots camping outside of Comp USA for their copy bust down the doors, they can all take home Macs pre-loaded with 10.4 instead.

IT WILL BE A GLORIOUS DAY FOR APPLE!!!

 

[airborne]

Oh happy day!

Originally posted by io_burn
IT WILL BE A GLORIOUS DAY FOR APPLE!!!

It will also be a glorious day for me, my friend, as the rivers run red with the blood of those sheep who trample one another in droves to buy this CORNHORN release!

Meanwhile, in my bedroom, I will bask in the flickering orange glow of the candles that adorn my altar to the God of Computing, Steven Paul Jobs, as I pop open my Safari browser and read the news reports of the many killed in riotous herds outside of CompUSA.

My soul is triumphant!!!

 

[Powerbook G5]

I think someone slipped something into your kool-aid today.

 

[airborne]

Yes!

Originally posted by Powerbook G5
I think someone slipped something into your kool-aid today.

The only thing in my Kool-Aid, my dear friend, is the passionate love of an Apple user.

I mix my Kool-Aid with pure apple juice because water is so plain and boring, like the beige generi-PCs running that horrid, monopolistic Win-Doze, and I won't abide it!

 

[spercharged69]

Wow, that's a great idea, I'll have to try that.

edit: Sorry for the derail.

 

[airborne]

Originally posted by io_burn
Wow, that's a great idea, I'll have to try that.

Oh my god, it tastes so good, it's like the same feeling you get when you realize that you haven't rebooted your Mac in two months and your PC-using friends are reinstalling WINBLOWS every TWO DAYS.

 

[plasticparadox]

It must be difficult to type when you've got your face in Steve Job's lap.

No, but seriously, Apple computers are great. But there's a difference between using a computer to enrich your life and having a computer being the focal point of your life.

 

[Counterfit]

Re: Yes!

Originally posted by airborne
like the beige generi-PCs running that horrid, monopolistic Win-Doze, and I won't abide it!

You upset my beige G3 you monster! Now apoligise for hurting its feelings

 

[Nermal]

Ha! Nobody will apologise for that non-Panther-compatible excuse for a system

Now stop offending my LC III

 

[adt]

Originally posted by airborne
Oh my god, it tastes so good, it's like the same feeling you get when you realize that you haven't rebooted your Mac in two months and your PC-using friends are reinstalling WINBLOWS every TWO DAYS.

Oh man, i just fell off my chair!

 

[mj_1903]

Some information from the horses mouth:
- 10.4 (no codename has been released with this version, by this time all documentation had it called Panther) does run on G3's. Quote "...there is no technical reason for it not to. There is more of a technical reason to only run on G5's though..."
- 10.4 will contain some serious updates for business uses (aka networking, further integration with Exchange and Windows servers)
- 10.4 will see 20-25% increase in speed for normal operations. This will mainly be from cleaner code and better linking. AFAIK no speed changes are being made to the kernel although there are many notable ones that could be made.

I expect the standard GUI change to match the Jaguar and Panther changes. I am not expecting anything new and major as that does not seem to be Apple's main goal right now.

 

[gopher]

Originally posted by johnnyjibbs
Apple has focused on G4s upward recently, but I can't help but feel that they'll be plenty of annoyed iBook owners if they cut out the G3s next time. iBooks were G3 until October remember.

Yes, that's true...but they cut out Mac IIvx users out of the loop only 3 months after it was released. And that's even though the IIvx was the first computer with the first CD-ROM drive. You can only upgrade a IIvx to 7.6, whereas a Quadra upgrades to 8.1.

 

[ITR 81]

I hope 10.4 brings some 3D to our desktops.

I'm buying regardless since I want iLife 4 and at $69 bucks thats a steal.

 

[zupchuck]

If were to hazard a guess, we'll get real 64-bit computing (whatever its moniker) before LongShoreman comes out so as to pre-empt Balmer. For those of us who bought G5s already, we deserve it.

 

[sethypoo]

Knowing Apple and how they make upgrades worth it, yes I would in fact upgrade to 10.4.

It helps that I get an educational discount.

 

[WM.]

Originally posted by gopher
Yes, that's true...but they cut out Mac IIvx users out of the loop only 3 months after it was released. And that's even though the IIvx was the first computer with the first CD-ROM drive. You can only upgrade a IIvx to 7.6, whereas a Quadra upgrades to 8.1.

They replaced the IIvx with a newer model (Centris 650) 3 months after it was released. They didn't stop providing OS upgrades for it until OS 8, as you imply, which came out in July 1997 IIRC--about five years after the IIvx was released.

WM

 

[WM.]

Originally posted by mms
The recent problems such as the Panther Firewire disk problems and the 12'' PB fan problems in 10.3.2 come to mind. Not to mention the frequent security updates that have been released recently. They're nowhere as frequent as Microsoft, but the less there is, the better.

I'll agree with you on the Panther FireWire problems. But I don't think we should blame Apple for the PB fan thing in 10.3.2 or security updates. The new fan behavior in 10.3.2 is apparently supposed to help keep the machine cooler; certainly this wouldn't be needed if Apple had reduced the heat output of the Rev. A 12-inch (my understanding is that they pretty much fixed the problem with Rev. B). As for security updates, the most recent two have mostly involved Apple components, but many of the others are fixes for things like SSL and Apache, which Apple has no responsibility for (aside from passing the fixes along to their customers) and which affect most other *nixes just as much.

IMHO, MS has a lot of security fixes because they have shoddy design principles. Apple has "a lot" of security fixes because they are responsive to the few flaws there are. (They're not without their faults, certainly, but I think in general they do a pretty good job.)

WM

 

[Powerbook G5]

I haven't experienced any Firewire issues yet, but I have a limited number of FW devices to go on. I have yet to hear my fan go on so I am assuming this fan issue is only present in the 12"? Besides that, Panther has been great and 10.4 will only get better. The security patches aren't that numerous compared to XP, and the points raised are valid, since most of these patches are because of the Unix side of things and it's nice to see how quickly Apple has been keeping on top of it.

 

[WM.]

Originally posted by gopher
You can count on 10.4 to only run on G4s and G5s. The 10.3 milestone was reached by saying it could only run on new world ROM machines. The next major advancement in Apple's hardware architecture was the switch to G4s. I'm sure there will be people upset about it, but it seems inevitable that at some point they will drop G3s. Doesn't mean your G3 isn't a perfectly good machine, but Apple has to draw the line somewhere, otherwise overtax its support staff.

Other people have already addressed the "what about the iBook?" rebuttal here, but there's another thing too: as far as the user was concerned, I suppose the G4 was the next major advance, but it came at the same time as another big change that is (AFAIK) more important when it comes to OS support: the introduction of the Unified Motherboard Architecture (Uni-North + KeyLargo). I believe the first UMA-equipped products to be announced were the original iBook and the slot-loading iMacs, followed shortly by the Power Mac G4 (AGP Graphics) and finally, a few months later, the PowerBook G3 (FireWire). Trying to squeeze all that information into a System Requirements thing on the box might be a bit tough--there are essentially no external differences between the Power Mac G4 (PCI Graphics) and the Power Mac G4 (AGP Graphics)*, but the latter would be compatible with 10.4/whatever while the former would not. But I'm sure Apple could figure it out.

Of course, I'm biased towards the UMA rather than the G4 being the next minimum requirement, because I own one of the slowest UMA-equipped Macs (clamshell iBook).

I notice that some people think built-in FireWire will be the next cutoff. Y'all are confusing features with architecture. Adding FireWire to the iMac and iBook didn't mark a change in architecture, nor was the architecture of the FireWire-equipped B&W G3 much (if at all) different from that of the non-FireWire-equipped Lombard PowerBook.

I'm biased here too, because my iBook doesn't have FireWire either.

It is kind of curious that built-in FireWire is required for DVD playback in OS X, but I think this was the easiest way for Apple to specify that it requires at least a Rage 128 (all non-FireWire-equipped systems have Rage II's or Rage Pro's or similar GPUs).

WM

* The AGP one has the audio in/out ports in a different configuration (horizontal vs. vertical) and its FireWire ports are spaced much further apart.

 

[WM.]

Originally posted by Powerbook G5
I haven't experienced any Firewire issues yet, but I have a limited number of FW devices to go on. I have yet to hear my fan go on so I am assuming this fan issue is only present in the 12"?

I think a few people were reporting it in the 15", but we haven't experienced it, or any issues with FireWire for that matter.

Besides that, Panther has been great and 10.4 will only get better. The security patches aren't that numerous compared to XP, and the points raised are valid, since most of these patches are because of the Unix side of things and it's nice to see how quickly Apple has been keeping on top of it.

Agreed.

WM

 

[gopher]

The firewire issues are going to be difficult if not impossible for Apple to fix. Numerous hard drive vendors are reluctant to make a firmware update available for Mac OS X 10.3 to be able to use their drives without any symptoms. Apple is not admitting that Firewire 400 is as impacted as Firewire 800, and that makes it more difficult because many vendors are taking Apple at its word and what it is admitting. So far only three vendors have made Firewire 400 cases compatible with Panther:

SmartDisk - since it doesn't use Oxford 911
Granite Digital - since it doesn't use Oxford 911
MacAlly which has ported Oxford's own 3.8 firmware updater for its Firewire 400 drives. MacAlly's update may or may not work on other makes of Oxford 911 drives.

Until Apple admits Firewire 400 is a problem, you will see only Firewire 800 patches from the rest fo the vendors on this list:

http://www.macmaps.com/firewirebug.html

I suggest submitting feedback to the links provided in the above Firewire bug FAQ to Oxford, Apple, and your hard drive case manufacturer to get an update available to the firmware if your drive is impacted.

 

[amin]

Re: New OS X in 2004? Would you upgrade?

Originally posted by SiliconAddict
Another question. Lets assume that Apple does release 10.4 this fall and it has the same incremental upgrades as the jump from 10.2 to 10.3 would you upgrade?

Yes, I'm very happy with the price per incremental upgrade ration in going from Jag to Panther.