New PB battery problems?

smartgirlglasse

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Oct 21, 2005
23
0
I just got my new PB, and I checked the battery power 2 days after receiving it:

Battery Information:

Battery Installed: Yes
First low level warning: No
Full Charge Capacity (mAh): 4644
Remaining Capacity (mAh): 4578
Amperage (mA): 0
Voltage (mV): 12460
Cycle Count: 1

Any idea why it would lose so much of its charging capacity in the course of 48 hours? I "calibrated" the battery when I got it, as suggested in another threat--by draining it all and then recharging it.

Any tips for avoiding battery loss?
 

TheMonarch

macrumors 65816
May 6, 2005
1,469
1
Bay Area
Don't worry too much. My battery went from 5400 to 4717 within a month or so... And it seems to have settled there. I think I got a bad cell or something. I don't know, but I called applecare, and they said that if it dips to 50% of its original capacity, that I'd get a new batt.

Like 51% would be acceptable :rolleyes:



It'll eventually settle, and decline at about the same rate as other batteries, and I would bother calling applecare just yet, I doubt I'd do much for you either.
 

caveman_uk

Guest
Feb 17, 2003
2,391
1
Hitchin, Herts, UK
smartgirlglasse said:
I just got my new PB, and I checked the battery power 2 days after receiving it:

Battery Information:

Battery Installed: Yes
First low level warning: No
Full Charge Capacity (mAh): 4644
Remaining Capacity (mAh): 4578
Amperage (mA): 0
Voltage (mV): 12460
Cycle Count: 1

Any idea why it would lose so much of its charging capacity in the course of 48 hours? I "calibrated" the battery when I got it, as suggested in another threat--by draining it all and then recharging it.

Any tips for avoiding battery loss?
Are you sure you calibrated it? You don't seem to have had your 'First Low Level Warning'
 

smartgirlglasse

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Oct 21, 2005
23
0
It's my understanding that the "low level warning" is something that Mac OS gives you when your battery is about to die for good. When I run a battery config on my old PB, it tells me I've never had a "low level warning," even though I've been through 500+ cycles.
 

psendeavor

macrumors newbie
Nov 12, 2005
23
0
Be happy.
My new hi-res PB's battery only has full charge capacity of 762 mAh remaining .... after three weeks. Think I'm going to call Applecare on Monday...

I've seen others with a similar problem in various forums.

(no, recycling or resetting the PMU didn' t work).

smartgirlglasse said:
I just got my new PB, and I checked the battery power 2 days after receiving it:

Battery Information:

Battery Installed: Yes
First low level warning: No
Full Charge Capacity (mAh): 4644
Remaining Capacity (mAh): 4578
Amperage (mA): 0
Voltage (mV): 12460
Cycle Count: 1

Any idea why it would lose so much of its charging capacity in the course of 48 hours? I "calibrated" the battery when I got it, as suggested in another threat--by draining it all and then recharging it.

Any tips for avoiding battery loss?
 

mkrishnan

Moderator emeritus
Jan 9, 2004
29,641
12
Grand Rapids, MI, USA
psendeavor said:
My new hi-res PB's battery only has full charge capacity of 762 mAh remaining .... after three weeks. Think I'm going to call Applecare on Monday...
But how much battery life are you getting? Is the problem the "calibrated" reading, or battery life?

FWIW, my system (two year old iBook) also claims to never have given the low level warning, which is consistent with what smartgirlglasse said. :)
 

psendeavor

macrumors newbie
Nov 12, 2005
23
0
About 20 to 40 minutes, depending on screen brightness and HD access. Not enough for a brandnew hires 15" PB, I guess :(.

mkrishnan said:
But how much battery life are you getting? Is the problem the "calibrated" reading, or battery life?

FWIW, my system (two year old iBook) also claims to never have given the low level warning, which is consistent with what smartgirlglasse said. :)
 

YunusEmre

macrumors regular
Nov 11, 2005
119
0
Santa Clara, CA
smartgirlglasse said:
I just got my new PB, and I checked the battery power 2 days after receiving it:

Battery Information:

Battery Installed: Yes
First low level warning: No
Full Charge Capacity (mAh): 4644
Remaining Capacity (mAh): 4578
Amperage (mA): 0
Voltage (mV): 12460
Cycle Count: 1

Any idea why it would lose so much of its charging capacity in the course of 48 hours? I "calibrated" the battery when I got it, as suggested in another threat--by draining it all and then recharging it.

Any tips for avoiding battery loss?
I've just got my new 15" PB, this is what it shows:
Battery Information:

Battery Installed: Yes
First low level warning: No
Full Charge Capacity (mAh): 4370
Remaining Capacity (mAh): 2930
Amperage (mA): 2624
Voltage (mV): 12171
Cycle Count: 2

I think the cycle count is 2 because I accidentaly unplugged the power before it finished charging. I have not done what folks call calibration yet. I'll try that soon.
 

mkrishnan

Moderator emeritus
Jan 9, 2004
29,641
12
Grand Rapids, MI, USA
Glasse, I'm still not clear on what's wrong. Is it that the capacity number is lower than what you expect for your model? Or are you concerned about the difference between the capacity and the current level? Macs don't actively charge their batteries unless they dip below 95%. That means that until the current number gets down to ~4400, the PB will not try to charge the battery. The battery level very slowly drains down from 100% to 95% even when it's plugged in, as a result of this, but that's normal and should be expected. It does that to *preserve* battery life.
 

smartgirlglasse

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Oct 21, 2005
23
0
My concern was that fully charged, the battery was 66 mAh less than it's initial "full charge capacity," after only one cycle. If it keeps that nonsense up, I'd get 70 cycles out of the darn thing!

It's more just a paranoia based on the fact that, fully charged, by 12" PB shows a "remaining capacity" of around 2000, a far cry from its initial full charge capacity of 4200. I'm lucky to get an hour out of the battery, which really limits its portability (nothing like packing 2 extension cords for your trip to the neighborhood coffeeshop).

I had heard that other new PB owners were having battery issues, so I was just looking to see what was up.
 

live4ever

macrumors 6502a
Aug 13, 2003
718
1
I'm surprised my RevA 15" (1.25GHz from over 2 years ago) still gets about 2 hours down about from 2:45 when new.
 

al3000

macrumors 6502
Aug 16, 2005
272
0
England
Mine seems to be different

Battery Installed: Yes
First low level warning: No
Full Charge Capacity (mAh): 3864
Remaining Capacity (mAh): 3164
Amperage (mA): -1235
Voltage (mV): 11771
Cycle Count: 4

could anyone explain what this means...and are there any problems with it?
 

SteveMcQ

macrumors member
Sep 5, 2005
56
0
I'm sure this is an easy question, but I don't have my PB in front of me: How do you guys check the battery info like that?
 

mkrishnan

Moderator emeritus
Jan 9, 2004
29,641
12
Grand Rapids, MI, USA
SteveMcQ said:
I'm sure this is an easy question, but I don't have my PB in front of me: How do you guys check the battery info like that?
It's in the power section of system profiler. Click the Apple menu, then "About this Mac," then "More info...." then Power under Hardware in Sys Profiler. :)
 

airkarol

macrumors 6502
Nov 12, 2005
280
0
My battery :/

Code:
 Battery Installed:	Yes
  First low level warning:	No
  Full Charge Capacity (mAh):	4279
  Remaining Capacity (mAh):	4125
  Amperage (mA):	0
  Voltage (mV):	12358
  Cycle Count:	74
My PB is 7 months old, I dont remember what the original was, is my capacity okay?

Also, my battery only charges until it says 96%. Any ideas on that?
 

SteveMcQ

macrumors member
Sep 5, 2005
56
0
Curious bump, but what is an "acceptable" full charge capacity on a week old PB? I've done the whole calibration thing already and I'm down to 3776mAh already when it looks like most of you are in the mid to low 4ks.

And what does the "First Low Level Warning" count mean exactly?

Thanks.
 

caveman_uk

Guest
Feb 17, 2003
2,391
1
Hitchin, Herts, UK
mkrishnan said:
FWIW, my system (two year old iBook) also claims to never have given the low level warning, which is consistent with what smartgirlglasse said. :)
Yeah, you're right. I was wrong. Mine says 'No' as well and I've definately calibrated it until the low battery warning comes on.

My readings are

Full Charge Capacity 4338
Remaining Capacity 4034
Cycle count 63 cycles

My machine has been asleep for about 8 hours so it's a little bit less than fully charged.
 

Spectrum

macrumors 65816
Mar 23, 2005
1,347
703
Never quite sure
The first battery I got from Apple would charge to capacity in less than an hour, and then last for less than 30minutes. Even after two rounds of calibration.

Then, while on the phone to Apple, I unplugged just to see, and suddenly I had back up to 4hours+ of expected time (it normally always said 45-50min).

They sent me a new one anyway, and it works fine.

Here are the stats of my new one - about 3 weeks old now I guess... (I never checked the old one - didn't know how)

Battery Installed: Yes
First low level warning: No
Full Charge Capacity (mAh): 4483
Remaining Capacity (mAh): 4283
Amperage (mA): 643
Voltage (mV): 12539
Cycle Count: 9

---

Interesting
psendeavor said:
About 20 to 40 minutes, depending on screen brightness and HD access. Not enough for a brandnew hires 15" PB, I guess :(.
 

SteveMcQ

macrumors member
Sep 5, 2005
56
0
SteveMcQ said:
Curious bump, but what is an "acceptable" full charge capacity on a week old PB? I've done the whole calibration thing already and I'm down to 3776mAh already when it looks like most of you are in the mid to low 4ks.

And what does the "First Low Level Warning" count mean exactly?

Thanks.
^^
 

mkrishnan

Moderator emeritus
Jan 9, 2004
29,641
12
Grand Rapids, MI, USA
Remember...the rated capacity of the batteries for the different PBs is different. From what I understand, PB batteries are rated at:

12" = 50 Watt Hours = 4630 mAh
15" = 50 Watt Hours = 4630 mAh
17" = 58 Watt Hours = 5370 mAh

I'm not 100% sure about these numbers -- the only place on Apple's site I can find rated capacity is in WH and is listed on the replacement battery pages of the Apple store. The batteries run at 10.8 VDC, so the mAh ratings come from solving P = I*V.

Anyway, assuming that you have not used more than say 10-15 cycles during that week, and the battery has been charge cycled appropriately, and is calibrated, I think it's reasonably to expect at least 85% of this, when you factor in manufacturing tolerance, variability in measurement (it's normal for this measure to fluctuate by a few %), and the effect of the limited usage during that time period. So that would be about 3935 mAh for the two smaller batteries and 4564 mAh for the big one.

That's just using sort of generally accepted numbers... I think that below 85% of rated functioning at purchase is considered defective in a lot of cases.... Does that sound reasonable? Does it help?
 

SteveMcQ

macrumors member
Sep 5, 2005
56
0
mkrishnan said:
Remember...the rated capacity of the batteries for the different PBs is different. From what I understand, PB batteries are rated at:

12" = 50 Watt Hours = 4630 mAh
15" = 50 Watt Hours = 4630 mAh
17" = 58 Watt Hours = 5370 mAh

I'm not 100% sure about these numbers -- the only place on Apple's site I can find rated capacity is in WH and is listed on the replacement battery pages of the Apple store. The batteries run at 10.8 VDC, so the mAh ratings come from solving P = I*V.

Anyway, assuming that you have not used more than say 10-15 cycles during that week, and the battery has been charge cycled appropriately, and is calibrated, I think it's reasonably to expect at least 85% of this, when you factor in manufacturing tolerance, variability in measurement (it's normal for this measure to fluctuate by a few %), and the effect of the limited usage during that time period. So that would be about 3935 mAh for the two smaller batteries and 4564 mAh.

That's just using sort of generally accepted numbers... I think that below 85% of rated functioning at purchase is considered defective in a lot of cases.... Does that sound reasonable? Does it help?
Actually, yes it does. Thanks.

Now does Apple have some more clear-cut guidelines as far as what they define as a "defective" battery? Given your numbers, mine still falls below it considering I've only had it for a week and sparingly as well, keeping in mind I have calibrated it thus far. I wish I had checked the battery info when I first got it, but given my usage and time of ownership, the battery capacity already seems low to what others are getting.
 

mkrishnan

Moderator emeritus
Jan 9, 2004
29,641
12
Grand Rapids, MI, USA
Yeah, I saw your numbers. Latest rev PB, right? That seems very low from what you describe. I don't know if Apple publishes a guideline like they do for the iPod. What I would recommend doing is calling them....

Hehehehe...bad customer-citizenship warning: when I got my first notebook, a Compaq, I installed some program that was extremely battery intensive and started getting only an hour off the battery. No easy measurement like this that I knew of then. I called and complained and got a new battery out of it...they didn't want the old one. Which I eventually learned had nothing wrong with it. Ooops. :D