New PowerMac G5s and PowerBook HD at NAB?

[1984]

apple won't change the DPI of their precious LCDs. i label the Powerbook HD rumor bogus.

You're forgetting that Apple already made reference to a 1920x1200 option in the current PowerBook 17" manual. They were not referring to resolution scaling either but rather to an actual build-to-order option, specifically stating that the customer could have either a 1440x900 or 1920x1200 screen depending on how they had it configured. Whoops.

 

[~loserman~]

You can buy an Xserve from Apple with 16 GB of ram. Once Tiger is out, you'd have full use of all 16 GB's (see http://developer.apple.com/macosx/tiger/64bit.html; Tiger has a 64-bit address space and the G5 allows up to 42-bits of physical memory, which equals 16 Exabytes of address space and 4 Terabytes of physical ram... in a consumer OS). Even under Panther, you get substantial benefit from 16 GB of ram, since each application running can use a different 4 GB chunk of ram.

Slight correction.

Panther CAN NOT use a " 4 GB chunk of ram". The most memory that a single thread can use in Panther is 2GB.
Just like every other 32 bit OS.(With the exception of windows NT 4.0 Enterprise edition and Newer Windows OS's a special flag set at boot time that could use 3GB.)
The /3GB switch allocates 3 GB of virtual address space to an application that uses IMAGE_FILE_LARGE_ADDRESS_AWARE in the process header. This switch allows applications to address 1 GB of additional virtual address space above 2 GB.
The virtual address space of processes and applications is still limited to 2 GB, unless the /3GB switch is used in the Boot.ini file.
But it was a cludge work around that is really smoke and mirrors and really doesn't count

The info on Apples website about Panther breaking the 4GB barrier is malarky.
Try it.
When you do you will get a malloc error.

 

[minton]

if you stuck too many pixels in per square inch all the GUI elements and text would be too small.

I didn't think the vector based UI was due to debut until 10.5.

It's supposed to be in Tiger -> http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=610

 

[Hattig]

The 64 bit architecture of the Power5 allows for a maximum of 8GB of RAM. The 4GB memory DIMMS, although they exist, would be pointless on the PowerMac for obvious reasons.

Totally incorrect. The 8GB limit on current PowerMacs is due to the OS still being 32-bit (each process can still only access 4GB with 10.3, some wizardry is done to allow the OS to access 8GB in total). If Tiger comes in a native 64-bit version, then this previous limitation will be removed.

8GB can be addressed with 33 bits.

If the 970MP has a 40-bit physical addressing capability (the same as the AMD Opteron) then it would be able to address 1TB of physical memory. The AMD Opteron has a 48-bit virtual address space, i.e., 256TB of memory. Future versions might up both of these to higher figures but it isn't needed at the moment quite obviously.

As the G5 uses a separate memory controller in the northbridge, there are also limitations in total memory space due to this, but I'm sure the controller will be designed to work with 32GB and 4GB DIMMs.

 

[~loserman~]

Totally incorrect. The 8GB limit on current PowerMacs is due to the OS still being 32-bit (each process can still only access 4GB with 10.3, some wizardry is done to allow the OS to access 8GB in total). If Tiger comes in a native 64-bit version, then this previous limitation will be removed.

Nope the 4GB memory limit in Panther that Apple talks about on their web page is MALARKY.

No process in Panther can use more than 2GB.
TRY IT.
You will get a malloc error.

You CAN put up to 16GB of memory in the current lineup of PowerMacs and Xserves. Apple has just recently posted that you can do it for Xserves but you could have done it all along. The same is true for the PowerMacs.
But no process can use more than 2GB this is the same on every other 32bit OS.

 

[TheMdude]

Anyone think Apple might introduce Powerbooks w/ e600 (MPC8641D) procs soon? Probably not at NAB but at WWDC perhaps?

 

[BenRoethig]

Anyone think Apple might introduce Powerbooks w/ e600 (MPC8641D) procs soon? Probably not at NAB but at WWDC perhaps?

Apple would have to use a custom version of the 8641 with a 16 lane PCI express rather than 8.

 

[~loserman~]

Anyone think Apple might introduce Powerbooks w/ e600 (MPC8641D) procs soon? Probably not at NAB but at WWDC perhaps?

Man oh Man do I hope so.
The dual core G4 at 2GHZ is my dream PowerBook

It would smoke a G5 PBook in performance and The batter life would go up by 30% or better.

 

[Hattig]

Apple would have to use a custom version of the 8641 with a 16 lane PCI express rather than 8.

In a laptop I don't think it really matters if the graphics chip is connected via 8 lane PCIe instead of 16 lane PCIe, not at the moment anyway. That is still 2GB/s in each direction which beats AGP8x, nevermind the 4x that current PowerBooks use IIRC.

Of course this chip would need a new southbridge because of the RapidIO interface (the northbridge is integrated, you can't use the old MPX based northbridge). Alternatively the graphics could be attached via PCIe x4 (probably still fast enough) and a PCIe x2 southbridge could be used (both ATI and ULi have these with modern functionality such as 8 channel audio, USB2, SATA300, ...).

The single core 8641 will be used in the iBook, along with lesser graphics but otherwise pretty similar to the PowerBook. Apple will classify these as "G5" level processors of course for marketing purposes.

 

[TheMdude]

In a laptop I don't think it really matters if the graphics chip is connected via 8 lane PCIe instead of 16 lane PCIe, not at the moment anyway. That is still 2GB/s in each direction which beats AGP8x, nevermind the 4x that current PowerBooks use IIRC.

Of course this chip would need a new southbridge because of the RapidIO interface (the northbridge is integrated, you can't use the old MPX based northbridge). Alternatively the graphics could be attached via PCIe x4 (probably still fast enough) and a PCIe x2 southbridge could be used (both ATI and ULi have these with modern functionality such as 8 channel audio, USB2, SATA300, ...).

The single core 8641 will be used in the iBook, along with lesser graphics but otherwise pretty similar to the PowerBook. Apple will classify these as "G5" level processors of course for marketing purposes.

Even with the required adjustments, using an 8641(D) proc would be a helluva lot easier and more practical than using a G5. 4.0GHz of processing power with the fsb kicked up (from the embarassing 167MHz) to 667MHz would be faster than any G5 they could cram into a laptop anyway. Plus, the 8641(D) would use around 15 watts as opposed to the 50+ watts of the G5. I think it's safe to say the G5 laptop will not happen for a while, but rather a kickass dual core G4. I don't think they would call these G5's either; it would imply they solved all the thermal issues surrounding the G5. I just hope they hurry up and announce these machines before I have to get one for college. C'mon Apple!!!

 

[ShnikeJSB]

New PowerBooks?

Well, I am just REALLY REALLY hoping Apple releases new PowerBooks soon... My old TiBook G4/667 is falling apart... Literally... First, the 9 key and 1 key fell off. Then the paint flaked and peeled and bubbled everywhere. Then the latch to hold the screen closed broke. Next, the hard drive died, so I replaced it. Then, the screen goes out (well sometimes, unless I push on a certain spot for awhile), then the display bezel is separating, then the DVD-ROM motor is dead (yes it is the DVD-ROM BEFORE the SuperDrive was out and it still SUCKED in CD's), and just last night the right hinge broke and cracked off leaving my PB hanging by it's left hinge and making it HARDER for the screen to stay on... This thing looks like it has been through a war! And I take CARE of my stuff!!! WTF??? I could use a new PB right about now... PLEASE let there be new PowerBooks soon! And Tiger too... -JB the frustrated Mac addict

 

[zap2]

Well, I am just REALLY REALLY hoping Apple releases new PowerBooks soon... My old TiBook G4/667 is falling apart... Literally... First, the 9 key and 1 key fell off. Then the paint flaked and peeled and bubbled everywhere. Then the latch to hold the screen closed broke. Next, the hard drive died, so I replaced it. Then, the screen goes out (well sometimes, unless I push on a certain spot for awhile), then the display bezel is separating, then the DVD-ROM motor is dead (yes it is the DVD-ROM BEFORE the SuperDrive was out and it still SUCKED in CD's), and just last night the right hinge broke and cracked off leaving my PB hanging by it's left hinge and making it HARDER for the screen to stay on... This thing looks like it has been through a war! And I take CARE of my stuff!!! WTF??? I could use a new PB right about now... PLEASE let there be new PowerBooks soon! And Tiger too... -JB the frustrated Mac addict

you could have thought abut getting a powerbook because you need one???but now we are in the lst few weeks until os x.4 or are we????9Mr Jobs tell me)

 

[stutz]

Well, I am just REALLY REALLY hoping Apple releases new PowerBooks soon... My old TiBook G4/667 is falling apart... Literally... First, the 9 key and 1 key fell off. Then the paint flaked and peeled and bubbled everywhere. Then the latch to hold the screen closed broke. Next, the hard drive died, so I replaced it. Then, the screen goes out (well sometimes, unless I push on a certain spot for awhile), then the display bezel is separating, then the DVD-ROM motor is dead (yes it is the DVD-ROM BEFORE the SuperDrive was out and it still SUCKED in CD's), and just last night the right hinge broke and cracked off leaving my PB hanging by it's left hinge and making it HARDER for the screen to stay on... This thing looks like it has been through a war! And I take CARE of my stuff!!! WTF??? I could use a new PB right about now... PLEASE let there be new PowerBooks soon! And Tiger too... -JB the frustrated Mac addict

Man, I feel for you. I'm in the exact same boat without so many leaky holes. My G4 Powerbook (667) is more than 3 years old now, but luckily it's not the shape yours is in. The paint is peeling/bubbling around the trackpad a little bit. The screen seems to have gotten a little dimmer over the years, but I have no way of confirming this. My ";" key works but the button won't stay on. The CD/DVD drive is very picky on which discs it will take nowadays. The battery lasts 1 hour on the lowest settings before it says it's about to shut down, then magically will run another hour at less than 10% power. I've tried to be gentle and it shows since everything still works very well. I'm really hoping though that I can get the next generation Powerbook processor this year. If I can get that and an ATI 9800 for graphics put in, I sell what I've got hopefully for a few hundred and upgrade. I'm guessing that if Apple delivers a true Powerbook update, it will last 4 years or more and can serve as my makeshift media center.

 

[fpnc]

~loserman~, I believe that you are incorrect about the 2GB limit in Panther. Apple's developer documents are very clear on this matter -- under OS X each application can be assigned a 4GB address space. That doesn't mean, however, that you can just malloc memory blocks larger than 2GB, it only means that the total address space can be up to 4GB. However, even under the best of conditions and because of the way OS X partitions this 4GB of address space you may only be able to allocate something around 2GB in one contiguous block of memory (as in a single malloc). Thus, malloc will probably begin to fail as you either approach or just exceed a 2GB allocation (again, under the best of conditions). Note, however, that once you allocate this largest possible block of memory your 4GB address space will still contain many other allocations for code, data, stack, libraries, and OS-related data structures and those allocations and partitions still count toward your 4GB limit.

Here is a link to a discussion concerning the malloc limit under OS X (also discusses limits under both 32-bit Windows and Linux).

http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=4009&page=2

Nope the 4GB memory limit in Panther that Apple talks about on their web page is MALARKY.

No process in Panther can use more than 2GB.
TRY IT.
You will get a malloc error.

You CAN put up to 16GB of memory in the current lineup of PowerMacs and Xserves. Apple has just recently posted that you can do it for Xserves but you could have done it all along. The same is true for the PowerMacs.
But no process can use more than 2GB this is the same on every other 32bit OS.

 

[weezer160]

I'm sure Apple engineerings are on these forums, laughing at us and our idiocy and lack of knowledge on the subject of the G5 and other 64-bit processors.

It's just funny. Take a step back and laugh.

 

[Val-kyrie]

The MPC8641(D)

Anyone think Apple might introduce Powerbooks w/ e600 (MPC8641D) procs soon? Probably not at NAB but at WWDC perhaps?

Unfortunately, I don't think we will see the MPC8641D before Oct, '05. I have charted Apple's cycle of processor upgrades for the iBook and PowerBook since April of 2002 with the following results:

The iBooks have been consistently updated every 5 and 1/2 to 6 months whereas the PowerBooks have been updated in longer and less consistent cycles from 6 to 10 months. If this pattern holds, then the iBooks are due for an update this month or by May at the latest--my guess is probably simultaneously with or shortly after the release of Tiger with a DirectX9 compatible gfx card, though I don't see any feasible solution without almost making the iBook a PB. Further, given the delays in processor upgrades, I would gander that the PBs won't be upgraded for about 9 months. If the iBooks were upgraded 6 months after an April update, then both the iBooks and PBs would be upgraded (with a new form factor?) around October--though I suppose it is possible the PB might be upgraded in Sep, '05, followed by the iBook in Oct, '05, but this is neither here nor there at the moment. BTW, the iBooks and PBs were updated simultaneously in April of 2004 and in October of 2002, as well. However, the real hang-up is whether Apple implements the 7448 chip before the MPC8641(D), unless it has been cancelled, as was possibly suggested in a previous post in another thread by another poster.

I am really hoping Apple does upgrade to the MPC8641 chips with the dual-core going into the PB by fall or I will have to consider purchasing a P-M and installing Linux. I really like OSX--what I have read about it and what little I have used it--and I would really like to become cross-platform, but I REFUSE to buy antiquated hardware. I hope you're listening Apple because it is up to you! Are you a computer company, software AND hardware, or an iPod company?

 

[fpnc]

The last I heard the multi-core versions of the new e600 processor core weren't even going to sample until fall 2005. Thus, I don't think you should expect any products based upon the MPC8641D until early 2006 (at best, since there is currently no evidence that Apple would even use this chip). However, the MPC7448 (single core e600) is supposed to sample this quarter, which means that we may see that processor in the Mac mini and iBook starting late summer or early fall. In fact, note that the MPC7448 is currently listed in Freescale's 2Q/05 new product directory, however, the MPC8641D does not appear in that document.

Unfortunately, I don't think we will see the MPC8641D before Oct, '05. I have charted Apple's cycle of processor upgrades for the iBook and PowerBook since April of 2002 with the following results:

The iBooks have been consistently updated every 5 and 1/2 to 6 months whereas the PowerBooks have been updated in longer and less consistent cycles from 6 to 10 months. If this pattern holds, then the iBooks are due for an update this month or by May at the latest--my guess is probably simultaneously with or shortly after the release of Tiger with a DirectX9 compatible gfx card, though I don't see any feasible solution without almost making the iBook a PB. Further, given the delays in processor upgrades, I would gander that the PBs won't be upgraded for about 9 months. If the iBooks were upgraded 6 months after an April update, then both the iBooks and PBs would be upgraded (with a new form factor?) around October--though I suppose it is possible the PB might be upgraded in Sep, '05, followed by the iBook in Oct, '05, but this is neither here nor there at the moment. BTW, the iBooks and PBs were updated simultaneously in April of 2004 and in October of 2002, as well. However, the real hang-up is whether Apple implements the 7448 chip before the MPC8641(D), unless it has been cancelled, as was possibly suggested in a previous post in another thread by another poster.

I am really hoping Apple does upgrade to the MPC8641 chips with the dual-core going into the PB by fall or I will have to consider purchasing a P-M and installing Linux. I really like OSX--what I have read about it and what little I have used it--and I would really like to become cross-platform, but I REFUSE to buy antiquated hardware. I hope you're listening Apple because it is up to you! Are you a computer company, software AND hardware, or an iPod company?

 

[ShnikeJSB]

So where does this leave PowerBooks?

Yeah, as you can see, my TiBook 667 is basically falling apart and on its last legs. I was waiting until Tiger was released to buy a new PowerBook, but I really REALLY am hesitating to buy one, as I don't think they are improved enough from my 3-1/2 year oldie but goodie, plus the graphics card kinda sucks. I am THIS close to switching to the dark sidew and buying a Dell Inspiron XPS Gen 2 for about the same amount of money, but with SIGNIFICANTLY better technology. I can get a 2.13GHz P-M, 2GB DDR-2 RAM, 60GB 7200 RPM hd, 256mb GeForce 6800 Go Ultra, etcetra with all the trimmings the way I want it for about $3600, which is basically the cost of the 17" PB with 2GB RAM and such (both education discounts), except the Dell gives a much better warranty. Though it weighs about 2.5 pounds more than the PB, it is STILL VERY light for a Desktop Replacement, which the PowerBook no longer is... So, in other words, WHEN can I expect a WORTHY PB update? I am guessing at the WWDC in June maybe? I don't think i can wait that long, this thing is DYING! Give me hope! -JB

 

[Platform]

Yeah, as you can see, my TiBook 667 is basically falling apart and on its last legs. I was waiting until Tiger was released to buy a new PowerBook, but I really REALLY am hesitating to buy one, as I don't think they are improved enough from my 3-1/2 year oldie but goodie, plus the graphics card kinda sucks. I am THIS close to switching to the dark sidew and buying a Dell Inspiron XPS Gen 2 for about the same amount of money, but with SIGNIFICANTLY better technology. I can get a 2.13GHz P-M, 2GB DDR-2 RAM, 60GB 7200 RPM hd, 256mb GeForce 6800 Go Ultra, etcetra with all the trimmings the way I want it for about $3600, which is basically the cost of the 17" PB with 2GB RAM and such (both education discounts), except the Dell gives a much better warranty. Though it weighs about 2.5 pounds more than the PB, it is STILL VERY light for a Desktop Replacement, which the PowerBook no longer is... So, in other words, WHEN can I expect a WORTHY PB update? I am guessing at the WWDC in June maybe? I don't think i can wait that long, this thing is DYING! Give me hope! -JB

Well the PM and iMac's need an update long before the PB does it was updated in January.......the PM in june/july....and the iMac in Aug