New PowerMac Motherboards?

[PretendPCuser]

Ummm, quality control? Anyone?

I'm guessing it'll be MWSF '04 for 970s. At the earliest. I'd love to be wrong, but i don't think Apple is going to have motherboards that are untested in June/July and "just put a 970 in there". I realize that mobo design means that most of the kinks are probably worked out and that prototypes have probably all ready been produced (maybe?) and tested, but if Apple is committed to putting out a good product, i think that they are going to be doing some more testing.

Again, i'd love to be wrong, i've got some spare cash around that i could stand to spend on a new Mac...

Edit: That is, if they decide to announce at MW expo...otherwise i'll guess late Q4, 2003.

 

[cubist]

Hey, if they can announce a 17" powerbook on Jan. 7 and not ship them until "late March", they can just as well announce the PowerMac 970 at MWNY and ship it in Sept. They might even talk about them at the WWDC - when is that, April?

I thought maybe Apple was weaning themselves away from MacWorld when this Boston brouhaha began, but Steve's glorious extravaganza at MWSF changed my mind. And the change to the 970 is worthy of a major public event. Everyone can bring an extra pair of panties.

 

[PyroTurtle]

i was thinking powermac and powerbook...
the XServes aren't that much different from the powermacs, but the powerbook ones are like night and day...

speaking of which, the powerbooks and iBooks look great from the outside...but after you've worked on that many of them, you start to wonder wo designed the insides?! they're hell to work on...i hope tech people are helping design these boards....its bad enough when you have to train new people, then add a super confusing box (iBook) and a frabile one (TiBook)...ok, done ranting...

 

[iJon]

Originally posted by PyroTurtle
i was thinking powermac and powerbook...
the XServes aren't that much different from the powermacs, but the powerbook ones are like night and day...

speaking of which, the powerbooks and iBooks look great from the outside...but after you've worked on that many of them, you start to wonder wo designed the insides?! they're hell to work on...i hope tech people are helping design these boards....its bad enough when you have to train new people, then add a super confusing box (iBook) and a frabile one (TiBook)...ok, done ranting...

i dont think it really matters. these computers arent hard to work on if you know what you are doing. these computers arent made for the average user to replace a logic board or display. you just have to do a couple with the manual in front of you, then you just know how to put it together. apple's designs may be trickier because they try to make it as thin and light as possible. all the pc companies still slap their stuff into 10 pound, 2 inch plastic boxes with ports scattered all around the computer. the pc world is still trying to catch up to the design on the powermac. they are so easy to work on. if apple could just allow us maybe 3 or 4 cd bays in front and a front usb and firewire ports they will have a killer case.

iJon

 

[jettredmont]

Originally posted by dukestreet
dual core, dual CPU mobos, means quad processors - I'm dreaming if I think that will happen, but what a dream!

D

Ummm ... the 970 is strictly single-core. That is a prime differentiating factor between it and the Power4.

So dual CPUs will mean two cores altogether.

On the other hand, each CPU has its own FSB, and the FSB is much faster than the FSB for current G4s, so a dual-970 MB would definitely kick some butt.

As for why two designs ... well, XServe and PowerMac maybe? Do we know that these are both intended for the PowerMac line? Otherwise, I'd guess single-CPU and dual-CPU (for a 970 design these would be quite different from one another).

On the other hand, could just be a redesign for Moto's next G4 chip too (isn't the faster FSB supposed to come this fall?) ...

 

[jettredmont]

Originally posted by PyroTurtle
speaking of which, the powerbooks and iBooks look great from the outside...but after you've worked on that many of them, you start to wonder wo designed the insides?! they're hell to work on...i hope tech people are helping design these boards....its bad enough when you have to train new people, then add a super confusing box (iBook) and a frabile one (TiBook)...ok, done ranting...

Well, yeah, when you try to stuff three gigawatt flux capacitors and Roswell Tech anti-gravity gear into a 1" thick notebook, it's gonna be hell on the techs!

Seriously, look at the history of modern technology: things get overall much much better for the consumer at the expense of being harder for the average repairman to figure out. My grandfather was a whiz with electricity, but I don't think I'd hand him an AlBook to figure out why the super drive isn't firing up.

Ever try repairing a Elph digital camera? Same rules apply: when you make something tiny (which is often good for the consumer), you make it disproportionately hard to service (without massive training and documentation).

 

[nuckinfutz]

Ummm ... the 970 is strictly single-core. That is a prime differentiating factor between it and the Power4.

No I woudn't call it the "Prime" differentiator.

Dual Cores
HUGE ondie L2 cach(what is it 1.5MB or something)
No Altivec
Bulletproof constuction

Would probably be the most noticeable changes.

 

[Frobozz]

Re: Ummm, quality control? Anyone?

Originally posted by PretendPCuser
I'm guessing it'll be MWSF '04 for 970s. At the earliest. I'd love to be wrong, but i don't think Apple is going to have motherboards that are untested in June/July and "just put a 970 in there".

Feel free to correct me... but, Dude, the motherboards are tested prior to being manufactured. That's what prototypes are for. They're sending these into mass production, which means that they'd have hundreds of thousands of potentially bad mobo's if they made them prior to testing. They're designed specifically for the 970.

 

[Bear]

Re: Ummm, quality control? Anyone?

Originally posted by PretendPCuser
I'm guessing it'll be MWSF '04 for 970s. At the earliest. I'd love to be wrong, but i don't think Apple is going to have motherboards that are untested in June/July and "just put a 970 in there". I realize that mobo design means that most of the kinks are probably worked out and that prototypes have probably all ready been produced (maybe?) and tested, but if Apple is committed to putting out a good product, i think that they are going to be doing some more testing.

Apple has probably had early samples of the 970 for a while now. The board won't be untested. You don't start manufacturing a board that hasn't been through basic testing.

You design the board, you test it, you fix it, you test it again. You get a handful manufactured, you test those and fix if necessary, then you go for a full production run.

So, since Apple has apparently requested a bid on these motherboards, I'd say they're in some stage of test/fix right now.

I say if they announce it at MacWorld, it'll be a MacWorld announcement with a late August ship date.

The low end Powermac in that lineup may very well be a G4.

Although Apple may surprise us by announcing a 970 based system ready to ship when announced.

 

[cr2sh]

This little bit of gossip is very exciting. The leak though really makes me wonder... what do we know about the physical specs of the 970 if anything? If we saw a CAD drawing would we recognize the # of pins and configuration as 970? Do we really have anything other than that 1 image of the 970?

PowerMac and Xserve
Dual and Single
Who knows.. but it certainly is fun to dream.

 

[G4scott]

Re: Reality First

Originally posted by ethan
I wouldn't get my panties in a wad over this news. If you actually think that Apple is going to have this new 970 chip and architecture all ready to go in a new computer design by summer or fall, you're fooling yourself. Even if they did, who in their right mind would buy one of these beta machines. Geesh. Apple is just now learning how to properly design fan cooling for their G4s. Remember the MDDs? What a mess this change over will be. And what about software manufacturers? Do you think they are going to run right out and work up 64 bit versions to take advantage of the capabilities of the new machines? Come on. They had to be dragged, kicking and screaming just to put out OSX versions. And several STILL don't have OSX versions out yet. In fact, you still can't get a decent utilities disk for OSX yet. Norton is brain dead and the other companies are just now starting to have OSX versions. And how long has OSX been out? Dream on but it's only a dream.

If Apple is going to introduce a killer PowerMac, they're going to put tons of testing and R&D into it. I think the problem with the MDD PowerMacs, was that Apple was getting tired of screwing around with the G4, and they've been paying more attention to notebooks. Their PowerMac development team that put together the MDD G4's was probably scratched together when Motorola had their new processors ready. Apple will go over 970 powered PowerMacs with a fine-toothed comb for sure.

As for this being 'beta' hardware, just remember that something this big will have been heavily tested before being put into production. Think of the iPod... It was a killer product when it first came out, and had no major flaws.

You seem to be one of those people who thought that color would never catch on, because developers would have to rewrite their programs to take advantage of it... Get over it troll. Change is inevitable, except from a vending machine.

 

[cr2sh]

Re: Reality First

Originally posted by ethan
who in their right mind would buy one of these beta machines. Geesh.

I would.

Do you think they are going to run right out and work up 64 bit versions to take advantage of the capabilities of the new machines?

No, the 32bit versions will be just fine with me.

Dream on but it's only a dream.

I don't think it is but then, do you have information that I don't?

 

[Anecdoter]

Let's All Take a breather

I think everyone is getting a little too excited about this. While I hope the 970 is coming soon, I think this announcement leaves a lot to the imagination; consider:

1.) MacWhispers recently pulled out of the rumor circuit because every single one of their inside sources told them the iPod would be updated weeks ago. Any inside source, unless he's far enough up the corporate ladder to know better than to leak information to rumor sites, does not have access to the "big picture."

2.) MacWhispers admits that this guy is not engineering. So basically some guy who's not an engineer is saying that these motherboards are different than the current ones. How so? A different color, a different shape? Different placement of the chipsets? There is nothing in here that promises the 970. The CPU is not even mentioned.

3.) This source claims that these are "obviously for the PowerMac..." but MacWhispers themselves claims that Apple is developing a highend workstation. Could these different motherboards be for those instead?

4.) The production timeline that is given aims for an August announcement, which does keep with the Power Mac update schedule of every six months. Keep in mind that price bidding for these boards does not end until March 28th. The winner would then need to sign contracts, retool their facilities and then begin production. Thus the 3-4 month period before "actual production" Basically June to July before the boards are even being assembled, assuming all goes right. If these are the 970, don't expect to see one shipping before late September. Which falls in line with IBM's estimate of Sept/Oct. mass production of the 970.

5.) Yesterday, Mac Whispers broke the story of the combo USB and FireWire cable. The most logical use of this would be to add front panel USB and Firewire ports to the Power Macs. Laptops and the iMacs would not need this cable as they are more compact. According to that story, those cables are in production now. Why would Apple build cables for the new Power Mac three to four months before the motherboards are made?
Maybe the cable is for something else, but there are few possiblities. Perhaps Apple is abandoning ADC in favor of DVI and adding Firewire to the monitors - three (power, FW/USB, DVI) simple wires to connect, instead of one, but better than four. I know ATI has had problems with ADC in the past, and (rumored) with the 9700, but does Apple care enough to abandon the standard? This cable wouldn't be for any portable device either as one connector is a PC Board type connector. Given the rumors about the Bluetooth keyboard and mouse, perhaps there is going to be a late Spring tweak of the Power Mac line.

I hope that I am wrong, but I honestly don't see any evidence of the 970 at New York this summer.

 

[cubist]

Re: Let's All Take a breather

Originally posted by Anecdoter
... The most logical use of this would be to add front panel USB and Firewire ports to the Power Macs. ... Perhaps Apple is abandoning ADC in favor of DVI and adding Firewire to the monitors - three (power, FW/USB, DVI) simple wires to connect, instead of one, but better than four. ...

Good points re the cable. I like the front-panel suggestion best.

As for the monitor, the monitor itself doesn't really need USB, does it? I thought the USB was just for cabling convenience, so the keyboard and mouse could be connected to the monitor, to reduce the cable clutter. I don't think Apple's ready to give up on ADC just yet.

As for the motherboard, no redesign is necessary for the 7457 - it's pin-compatible with the 7455. The mobo's already have FW800; no redesign should be necessary for USB 2.0 either. I can't think of any reason for the motherboard redesign except for the 970 processor. You're right, though, we don't know who it is that is saying that the mobo is "significantly different" or on what basis they make that judgement. Chances are, someone told him there were some kind of cost implications.

 

[MacQuest]

I'm sticking to these, my original predictions [okay, with a few additions ] from the beginning of the year:

1st quarter, as the article states [March 28th deadline], PowerMac contract bidding process. Focus on the "Year Of The Laptop" [as a diversion]. iPod updates. 15" PowerBook revision.

2nd quarter PowerMac design and development finalizations. New DLD, Safari final release, Appleworks [or whatever they call it] update to replace Word and Excel. Integration of Address Book, iCal, and Mail to replace Entourage. iBook updates.

3rd quarter PowerMac limited production and announcement, along with display updates and 10.3 Panther. PowerBook updates. iMac updates.

4th quarter PowerMac mass production and limited availability. Computer and display combo purchase offer to clear channels of EOL'd PowerMac's. Power4 Xserve's.

ALL OUT WAR IN 'O4!!
[Desktops, Displays, Laptops, Servers, Software, & DLD's]

MICROSOFT FREE IN '03!!

Bend over MS and Intel, Apple and IBM are coming in!!

 

[RandomDeadHead]

I'm sticking to these, my original predictions from the beginning of the year:

1st quarter, as the article states [March 28th deadline], contract bidding process. Focus on the "Year Of The Laptop" [partially as a diversion]. iPod updates.

2nd quarter design and development finalizations. New DLD, Safari final release, Appleworks [or whatever they call it] update to replace Word and Excel. Integration of Address Book, iCal, and Mail to replace Entourage.

3rd quarter limited production and announcement, along with 10.3 Panther.

4th quarter mass production and limited availability.

ALL OUT DESKTOP WAR IN 'O4!!

MICROSOFT FREE IN '03!!

Bend over MS and Intel, Apple and IBM are coming in!!

Hell yea!

 

[kansaigaijin]

Apple doesn't stockpile motherboards for assembly, the motherboard maker sends them to an assembly contractor. Apple probably only makes prototypes, and contracts all manufacturing.

 

[DaveGee]

Re: Ummm, quality control? Anyone?

Originally posted by PretendPCuser
I'm guessing it'll be MWSF '04 for 970s. At the earliest. I'd love to be wrong, but i don't think Apple is going to have motherboards that are untested in June/July and "just put a 970 in there". I realize that mobo design means that most of the kinks are probably worked out and that prototypes have probably all ready been produced (maybe?) and tested, but if Apple is committed to putting out a good product, i think that they are going to be doing some more testing.

Again, i'd love to be wrong, i've got some spare cash around that i could stand to spend on a new Mac...

Edit: That is, if they decide to announce at MW expo...otherwise i'll guess late Q4, 2003.

This motherboard rumor could simply be bull****... But for now let's say it's not...

Who said ANYTHING about this motherboard being the FIRST 970 designed motherboard?

It's just as possible that this mobo is for the SECOND gen 970 systems... Where Apple already has the mobos for the FIRST gen.

Dave

 

[yzedf]

Re: Re: Ummm, quality control? Anyone?

Originally posted by DaveGee
This motherboard rumor could simply be bull****... But for now let's say it's not...

Who said ANYTHING about this motherboard being the FIRST 970 designed motherboard?

It's just as possible that this mobo is for the SECOND gen 970 systems... Where Apple already has the mobos for the FIRST gen.

Dave

umm... yeah! this could be for the new G7 I keep hearing about too!

seriously though, motherboard development does not take 6 months when dealing with known chipsets. we know apple is not interested in the idea of giiving us options, so this rumor, if it has any wind in its sails, is for a somewhat major update.

but, it could be for onboard fibre channel or SCSI...

and please, steve, get with the program and include usb2. we know fw is better, but you are locking us out of a lot of hardware! we don't need 1993 again... ya know?

 

[TMJ1974]

wouldn't count too much on a timetable

While, like everyone here, I await the exciting news this fall, I can't help but point out Apple's recent timetable problems. 17" PowerBook anyone ?

Whenever they announce this new PowerMac line, have the d-mn things ready. Customers loose interest after waiting for months.

I would say this news should mean a Jan 2004 into. IBM has to get the 970 into production, which isn't happening until this fall, if on schedule. Give IBM and the motherboard manufacturer time to make enough to assemble enough PowerMacs to SELL in the store, then introduce them.

Just a thought...

 

[dongmin]

while the level of detail in this rumor is to be appreciated, it's one of those things where everything is vague enough that it'd be impossible to figure out whether this is for real or MacWhispers is just Making Shi+ Up. Really, has MacWhispers gotten one piece of rumor right? I don't think it's worth our time over-analyzing this and insisting that one time frame is more realistic than another.

Even if everything in the rumor is true, and new powermac motherboards are going into production at the end of June or July, we still don't know how long it'd take for the final assembled powermacs to make it to market. It could take six weeks or six months, for all we know.

To me, common sense dictates that Apple introduce the 970-based powermacs at a major event. It's probably the most significant new development for Apple since OS X was introduced. So I say the announcement will happen at the WWDC (late May) at the earliest and Seybold (late Sept) at the latest. Add another 2-3 months for the actual shipping of the machines.

 

[Frobozz]

Info

Originally posted by cr2sh
This little bit of gossip is very exciting. The leak though really makes me wonder... what do we know about the physical specs of the 970 if anything?

Go to www.ibm.com and start searching for "PowerPC 970." You will find a PDF with details of it's physical size, and will see actual pictures of the completed chip. One of the other threads about the 970 had a bunch of links to these docs.

 

[Computer_Phreak]

pretty much all of the "facts" that macwhispers has supplied are true, just not their "analysis" of them

also, since Stevo said this is the "year of the laptop," I don't see how he couldn't update the laptops with the powermacs.

So..

I'm saying:

PowerMac
Powerbook
1.8 Ghz "G5" on top end configurations
Possibly G4's on lower end configs
10.3 - including final Safari
New device [see plastic enclosure]
MWNY

 

[aethier]

Originally posted by Computer_Phreak
pretty much all of the "facts" that macwhispers has supplied are true, just not their "analysis" of them

also, since Stevo said this is the "year of the laptop," I don't see how he couldn't update the laptops with the powermacs.

Thats a good point. so since he said the year of laptops, how many powerbook/ibook updates should we see this year??? or do you think apple will introduce a totaly new laptop...??

aethier

 

[Computer_Phreak]

Originally posted by aethier
Thats a good point. so since he said the year of laptops, how many powerbook/ibook updates should we see this year??? or do you think apple will introduce a totaly new laptop...??

aethier

I don't know how many updates, but we will probably see 1 ghz G3 iBooks with the G5 PowerBooks