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New Report Delves Into Inner Workings of Foxconn's Zhengzhou iPhone Plant
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"We must do away with the absolutely specious notion that everybody has to earn a living. It is a fact today that one in ten thousand of us can make a technological breakthrough capable of supporting all the rest. The youth of today are absolutely right in recognizing this nonsense of earning a living. We keep inventing jobs because of this false idea that everybody has to be employed at some kind of drudgery because, according to Malthusian-Darwinian theory, he must justify his right to exist. So we have inspectors of inspectors and people making instruments for inspectors to inspect inspectors. The true business of people should be to go back to school and think about whatever it was they were thinking about before somebody came along and told them they had to earn a living." - Buckminster Fuller
Oh yeah, Donald Trump the President of China now as well? These perks were negotiated between Foxconn (a chinese company) and the Chinese government which means Trump has zero control. Especially, if he wants them to build a factory here.
1) There're cheaper labors from other country than China.
2) The robots are made by human.
3) The Robots need to be renewed. The cost of maintaining and renewing Robots could be more expensive than the cheap labor.
Cheaper labor but CapEx is a barrier to entry. Robots can be made by other robots and so can maintenance of said robots. When all is said and done, the robot revolution will be swift and unending.
So China nearly literally gave up the farm to be Apple's sole source for Apple's manufacturing, and that desire to take risks and 'move mountains', coupled with their destitute population made the deal possible. I heard Trump's Department of Labor head wants to kill the Federal Minimum Wage. China in the states?
I see it happening around here. A major multinational corporation has polluted the neighborhoods and the water under our feet, and they use the fact that they are the 'largest employer' as a threat to keep both wages, and complaints down. Oh, and their cash pays for hundreds of local politicians to remind the rubes that they are biting the hand that feeds them if they start thinking of making them accountable for the standard of living, environmental quality, or even think of forming a union. Environmental quality is something the republican governor holds in such low regard anyway.
But screw the young, apparently, because all of the politicians are on the dole, and over 50 so they have to hustle to 'grab the brass ring' before pushing up daisies. I cough at the smell of capitalism in the morning...
Interesting to that the willingness to exploit their societal norms for manufacturing all kinds of products helped put America out of business, and its neck in China's noose. Trump pissing off China is going to cost a hell of a lot for people that already can't afford a lot. And worse after healthcare reverts to the 'if you don't have insurance, there's the door'...
But look at the Japanese. They ate American auto companies lunch for years, and are still doing a good job even now.
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And very troubling to Stephen Hawking. I somehow found that interesting...
I see it happening around here. A major multinational corporation has polluted the neighborhoods and the water under our feet, and they use the fact that they are the 'largest employer' as a threat to keep both wages, and complaints down. Oh, and their cash pays for hundreds of local politicians to remind the rubes that they are biting the hand that feeds them if they start thinking of making them accountable for the standard of living, environmental quality, or even think of forming a union. Environmental quality is something the republican governor holds in such low regard anyway.
But screw the young, apparently, because all of the politicians are on the dole, and over 50 so they have to hustle to 'grab the brass ring' before pushing up daisies. I cough at the smell of capitalism in the morning...
Interesting to that the willingness to exploit their societal norms for manufacturing all kinds of products helped put America out of business, and its neck in China's noose. Trump pissing off China is going to cost a hell of a lot for people that already can't afford a lot. And worse after healthcare reverts to the 'if you don't have insurance, there's the door'...
But look at the Japanese. They ate American auto companies lunch for years, and are still doing a good job even now.
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And very troubling to Stephen Hawking. I somehow found that interesting...
Excellent point. An increasing number of lower skilled jobs are being automated right out of existence. And a lot of moderately skilled jobs will be next. Rather than yearning for 'the good old days', people need to turn the page and try to find out how we quickly retool a workforce for the future. And frankly, some people don't have the skills, interest or aptitude to do it.
The country needs more scientists and engineers. It also needs more pipefitters and welders. It doesn't need more generic customer servicer reps, retail clerks or unskilled labor. The number of jobs you can 'raise a family on' are dwindling. Unfortunately there's a big glut of people who frankly don't have the education or skills to do the job we need. It's a failure of the school system...and largely a failure of our society to stay ahead of the curve as moved from the industrial to the informational age.
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It's not subsidies they will probably lead with. It concerns me that his pick for Labor Dept wants to eliminate the minimum wage, and a lot of the safeguards for workers, and his Ed Department head sees nothing wrong with eliminating child labor laws.
I thought we tried that centuries ago and it was ruled inhumane and cruel.
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Most wages now seem to be at a level to make sure that the employee is hovering just above the poverty line. In many parts of this country, it's dipped under that level. The 'working poor'. It is getting epidemic, and as healthcare crumbles, again, the effects will devastate small towns and big cities. The suffering is going to get a whole lot worse...
I can imagine the French resistance fighters popping up here and being shocked that the people elected a man who has considered government a competitor and governor on what his businesses can extract, and has filled his cabinet with people that wouldn't pee on a poor person if they were on fire. Welcome to the new aristocracy.
I would agree fully except that trump has already told them they will pay hefty fines if they don't bring their production back to the US
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what an educated reply.
Interesting to see how much Chinese cities were fighting for the factory. That is a kind of enthusiasm does not exist in US. Tax incentive and tariff might not be enough to bring factories back to US.
Imagine acting like Chinese.
The local government can relocate residents to build a mega industrial park with designated power supply, highway, port and airport. Then, about half a million of working age lower middle to upper lower income people are invited to the area.
People there might be, in fact, happy. People who graduate from high school can find jobs, and they can eat out, ride own car, pay bills without outstanding credit card balance. Oh, there is no student loans.
Imagine acting like Chinese.
The local government can relocate residents to build a mega industrial park with designated power supply, highway, port and airport. Then, about half a million of working age lower middle to upper lower income people are invited to the area.
People there might be, in fact, happy. People who graduate from high school can find jobs, and they can eat out, ride own car, pay bills without outstanding credit card balance. Oh, there is no student loans.
What are you talking about? It's the Chinese government and their own subsidies and tax brakes. Trump will have zero chance effecting this. If you think Trump will or more like can give billions and billions of worth of tax brakes to Apple in order to "Make them in U.S.A." then you are hallucinating. This and the lack of qualified work force is the reason why there will never be any meaningful Apple manufacturing in US. Trump knows that too but his followers just fail to see the bigger picture.
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Trump has said many things which turn out to be half truths or outright lies. I'll bet there will be zero fines and some random low volume item manufactured in US to call it a day.
I hope you are correct due to the raised costs of bringing it back to US or charing a tariff. But, as much as trump is a little weird I hope he figures out how to get production back to the states.
Seconded. I love Michio Kaku and he's always willing to explore more than just the surface in any discussion without assuming the listener is dumb.
I'm talking about Tim outsourcing jobs to China and India for manufacturing. Trump vowed to tax 45 percent if apple does this.
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If the forum is filled with political warriors, it can't be helped.
I know I just wish people could control the urge, at least here it will be more entertaining.
I believe you are simply misinformed.
Many cities competed for Foxconn's business, it wasn't some national communist party conspiracy to undermine the US. Foxconn is right, the deal they received is no different than deals many corporations receive for large expansions. Tesla/Nevada is a great example.
Production always goes where labor is cheaper and China just happened to have the right policies, infrastructure, and will to be the world's manufacturer. Great Britain did it first, America did it second and both environments suffered for it. China loosened their strict communist/isolationist policies to bring wealth to the country and it happened.
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Nobody is forced to work there.
Shocker: many counties with no access to jobs are willing to work odd jobs for lower wages under harsher conditions. In many countries, you also see children working because there is no other way to earn money for the family to survive. In poor countries, the entire family is working and some knowingly go into prostitution because it brings in the most money.
So what exactly is "exploitative" or "inhumane" about Foxconn? The fact that any worker can walk out any time they wish?
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So it's not that labor is cheaper. It's massive subsidies to a "supplier" used to tip the playing field away from non-Chinese manufacturing.
The only reason FoxConn need 300,000 seasonal workers is because they are cheaper than robots. iPhones could be built in other places with fewer workers if the subsidies to Foxconn were ruled illegal. The argument that the US doesn't have enough people to build them is bunk. The US would need 1/10 the number of people max, for quality control, tooling, and maintenance. They are all click and glue together and could be mostly automated (watch "How it's made" to see how most things formerly made with cheap labor are made now if you don't believe me). It's just that in China it's cheaper to use people as long as there are billions in subsidies to build the infrastructure.
The only reason FoxConn need 300,000 seasonal workers is because they are cheaper than robots. iPhones could be built in other places with fewer workers if the subsidies to Foxconn were ruled illegal. The argument that the US doesn't have enough people to build them is bunk. The US would need 1/10 the number of people max, for quality control, tooling, and maintenance. They are all click and glue together and could be mostly automated (watch "How it's made" to see how most things formerly made with cheap labor are made now if you don't believe me). It's just that in China it's cheaper to use people as long as there are billions in subsidies to build the infrastructure.
Impossible, you need a PhD in engineering to glue an iPhone screen into place, we don't have enough engineers to do this work in the US!!??!!
Now, that's a good way to get to and from work..
If the reason of extending to U.S is to increase supply & demand, then the problem s maybe China should hire more workers... It's not for lower price that's for sure... so that only leaves us the only reason.
Apple probably reckon they an do in U.S just as good as China can..... well..,. its like coming alog with Apple maps after Google.... Google is miles ahead, and Apple came along afterwards so u'd expect it to not be perfect. Although that gap is closing..
If China does extend to U.S, i can trouble happening.
If the reason of extending to U.S is to increase supply & demand, then the problem s maybe China should hire more workers... It's not for lower price that's for sure... so that only leaves us the only reason.
Apple probably reckon they an do in U.S just as good as China can..... well..,. its like coming alog with Apple maps after Google.... Google is miles ahead, and Apple came along afterwards so u'd expect it to not be perfect. Although that gap is closing..
If China does extend to U.S, i can trouble happening.
Its a VERY simple equation.
The US as a market is saturated, there is effectively no growth potential left in the US markets.
Asia however has MASSIVE growth potential.
Trump could see US firms locked out of that market, Asian countries are already working on trade agreements between themselves, the US is excluded (just like the US excluded China from the TPPA).
After WW2 the US accounted for 60% of the worlds GDP, so it was critical for other countries trying to grow their economies to trade with the USA. Today the US accounts for about 20% of the worlds GDP, trading with the US while still important is no longer critical.
Likewise the US's ability to bully other countries, force certain trade practices has dropped too, we see this particularly in the EU with all the anti-competitive etc actions being taken by the EU against US firms. Likewise the tax being paid by US firms is being investigated, this would not have happened 20 years ago.
Trump is a moron, he somehow thinks that short changing smaller contractors who can not afford to fight him in court make him a "great negotiator", that behaviour does not work internationally. Short change a country and he may suddenly see US interests confiscated by that country as compensation, and I would even suggest that Trumps family/friends/business parters would be particularly targeted.
The world has changed, it is no longer 1950.
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The US is already using prisoners as slave labour, because that is what it is.
Blacklisting US companies/products because they use slave labour will follow soon enough.