New Report Says Apple Was in Talks to Use BMW i3 as Basis for Electric Car Project

[Sill]

I live in the countryside and would be more than happy to have a wind farm near me, without renewable energy the countryside is going to be in a far worse state than a few graceful wind turbines.

A few turbines would be great, especially to supplement other technologies. I just can't stomach the idea of the huge turbine farms. Others have mentioned the dangers to wildlife, but there are also health concerns. There is a large segment of the population that feel ill near these things. These people are getting pilloried as malingerers by the press and online blogs, but these same blogs also have stories about research into infrasonic frequencies - similar to those produced by wind turbines - and how they cause anxiety, paranoia, and depression. Infrasonic weapons have been developed by the military and have been used on a small scale already. Yet people complaining of discomfort after being around turbine farms are ridiculed. Maybe it has something to do with the crony capitalist money getting thrown at wind harvesting?

The problem isn't being framed correctly. People are getting fixated on "renewable energy", but fail to see that renewables don't have the energy density of combustibles. As we add more and more tech to our lives daily, the energy requirements go up. Renewable energy production is limited by the amount of energy the goes in to them, minus the transfer loss, minus the transmission loss. Combustible fuels have a higher energy input, but eventually even that will be outstripped by our demand for more tech. Nuclear is the only thing at present that can exceed our demand, and at a very low cost.

Please read this article for a layman's explanation of energy density. Also, check out the Toshiba 4S reactor design, as well as Hyperion/Gen4 Energy for new reactor models that are completely safe and produce minimal waste.

Finally, one factor that most people are either unaware of or choose to forget, is transmission loss. The present system of electric current transmission dissipates an enormous percentage of power. Talk all you want about EV and how clean they can be and efficient, and how they can all be powered by renewable energy, misses that enormous obstacle. In order for the world to convert to "clean and green" and get rid of all those evil internal combustion engines, the transmission loss will have to be conquered. I would have rather seen all the money that has been dumped into wind turbines go instead into advancing metal technology to make more efficient power lines.

 

[KPandian1]

Why are you so sure about that? Batteries haven't improved much in the last 20+ years and the physics behind it lead me to believe this will not change any time soon. Am I missing something here?

See Musk's work at Tesla to know better batteries are on the way - from within the USA. Cheers!

 

[KPandian1]

And it would have be your fault - You always have to keep enough space to stop *IN ANY CASE*. Many driver forgetting this.

I agree - I drive a hybrid in Atlanta and its chaotic suburbs! I leave enough space, that is irritatingly exploited by people who cut-in without signalling, and so have made peace with such incidents and do not react in anger.

Still, the likes of other hybrids that focus more on energy saving/regenerating than on safe driving gets to me, when they slam the brakes! All hybrids regenerate as soon as the gas pedal is lifted even slightly.

View the Motor Week's review (Episode 3436) of the BMW i3 - they specifically mention the hard braking recommended, and how much sharply the car slows down when the gas/power pedal is lifted! Nice recipe for chain collisions in the near future. The car does not even stop at an expected deceleration for such a light car, so front collisions! And, the car is an ugly collage, with narrow tires (contact patch), is expensive and cramped inside for the +2!

BMW - be warned, other magazines have also report this on their tests.

 

[doelcm82]

The European Market is focused on small efficient cars. The American market is focused on thirsty, ugly nasty hummer types and SUV's like they are compensating for something. The middle East couldn't care less about electricity cars. And the East doesn't care about design.

You managed to insult nearly the entire world, especially those weird Europeans!

 

[SkippyThorson]

What would be very interesting if the Smart ForTwo pans out to be the car Apple has its eyes on. Rather than BMW, they go after Mercedes, which famously has ties to Steve in the form of the SL55 AMG.

The electric and convertible Smart 453 redesign are seeing a yet-to-be-explained year-later production delay over the standard gas coupe, so wouldn't it be fascinating to see a unique car known for design (it's one of 5 cars in the Museum of Modern Art; where many Apple products also sit) become a car branded in a way by Apple?

All single-colored; unlike the car is usually seen. I can picture it now. That Electric Drive version with a chrome Apple on the back.

 

[KPandian1]

I disagree.

Wind turbines are a blight ... incredibly ugly, ... destroy the beauty of the countryside and no-one wants to live near them ... despoiling the local neighbourhood.

... to sea ... not visible from land.

Ever try telling the Dutch that "ugly" landscape concept!

The wind turbines are more elegant looking than the windmills of Holland, the power line towers of the last 70+ years, and the really ugly cell towers!

I can understand why you might not want it in your backyard - but it is a fine future option that is present now!

 

[KPandian1]

A little late to the party on this thread, and I'm sure I'm echoing many people's sentiments here. I just don't see why apple would be tempted to produce an electric car. The auto industry is old, profit margins are small, and regulations are stifling.

It seems they're struggling to find the next big thing, it seems they see the allure of Tesla and think they can do that. Yet Tesla isn't expected to turn a profit until 2020 (at least by this article)

Its like TV rumors that kept re-appearing, inserting themselves into a product that is beyond mature (read old), that is little chance of making a profit.

How long did Apple take to show a profit enough to issue dividends?

 

[KPandian1]

Renewables have been getting huge tax subsidies ...

The reality is that we'll need a combination of energy sources for a long time. How this factors into Apple's .

You do know that Exxon, BP, etc., get huge subsidies from their respective governments! That is just a sample of the Richie-rich subsidies. Let us not even get into the Agri, Pharma, Military moochers!

Apple is just a small player in this Eco-system - it is still a tech company that utilizes the renewable/efficient energy spectrum better than most companies, like using Chinese labor! Lots more companies, at a smaller scale contribute better to the reduction of pollution, and efficient use of available power sources!

 

[dacreativeguy]

I guess I'm the only one who likes the design of the BMW i3

The crazy design is intentional. If it is a success, great. If it is a failure, then it was just this kooky one-off design that won't reflect negatively on BMWs other models. Toyota did the same thing with the Prius.

 

[KPandian1]

Where is the problem? German cars at least work reliable - not like the junk american car companies sell.

You mean the tin-can cars the Germans build outside Germany - India, Mexico and Brazil are examples of poor unreliable death-trap cars built by the Germans because they do not care! Wait till the Chinese-German cars arrive!

 

[billy the fish]

Just buy Tesla, Give Elon control with a Board seat and call it a day. With Tesla's charging network already built and growing each year along with Apple's cash, the model 3 could easily become the best selling car of our generation.

What gumph... Best selling? , give over.. Folks spending 600 bucks on a phone ain't the same as 20k dollars in a car.. Be realistic here....

 

[Digital Skunk]

I think the idea of a car is a little . . . . . weird but meh.

I just hope that Apple at the very leasts considers that not everyone makes 6 figures. All of the talk of a battery powered car is nice but we'll never see the environment getting better if only the super rich minority can afford them.

 

[billy the fish]

not saying it will but your points to back up your claim are pretty weak



$25k profit in ten years is more profit than apple would make if they sold you a mbp every year for a decade.




what corporation is best in the world at selling premium priced technology?
.

True, those 17k Apple watches are flying off the shelf...

I repeat.. Selling a car is not the same as selling a phone...

 

[WelshDog]

Apple should not do a car. They should do the interior UI for a car.

I theory that could be what they are working on. The manufacturer would offer an Apple version of some of their cars - like an M3 or AMG. It would not be just cosmetic, but rather a full on Apple design covering both the technical and esthetic fitment of the interior. Might be cool.

 

[flat five]

True, those 17k Apple watches are flying off the shelf...

I repeat.. Selling a car is not the same as selling a phone...

not really sure what point you're trying to make or if it's meant to counter what I said.

but a 17k watch isn't premium priced technology.. that's the regular apple watches.. and I'm sure apple will sell very few luxury $200k+ cars if they decide to make such a model

 

[Jakexb]

This could be worse than the watch.

Do you have an Apple Watch? What do you not like about it?

I would be very happy to have a car that was thoughtfully designed as my Apple Watch.

 

[SoAnyway]

You seems to assume that the important (profit making) part of the electric car is the drive train and not the control/experience inside the habitable part. That part is right now basically a mess and nobody is close to having a solution, first of all because self driving electric cars don't really exist commercially right now...

Apple's MO is selling the experience, and by the time self driving electric cars really take off, the driving part will be accessory to whatever else is happening inside the car.

BTW, if Apple has a 300B stash of money in 2020 (likely), 7 years and 6-10B dollars of R&D behind this project, the brand and distribution/marketing strength in the high end that they have now, they've never too late...

They had a lot less going for them in 2002 for the Ipod and 2007 for the Iphone and we all know how that went.

This especially true in the car market where nobody's getting 50% or even 20%.
If Apple gets 25% of the high end (not even the whole market) and collects 40% of all high end profits, it will be all fine with Apple.

The only question is how do you suppose Apple can improve on the habitable area of a car if that's such a mess? Simplify every control like acceleration, deceleration, and steering to a series of touch and voice commands? Will they make the car roomier so passengers are laying down instead of sitting down? How about a hover conversion and a Flux Capacitor?

 

[nikonsean]

Sorry, but you are inaccurate again. You are really out to disparage the i3. They did mention it has aggressive throttle lift regen braking but never mentioned 'hard braking recommended'. it's a great little car;. It's a bit pricy but otherwise fantastic. Oh and BTW, the i3 brake lights come on during region throttle lift.

Just give it up.

I agree - I drive a hybrid in Atlanta and its chaotic suburbs! I leave enough space, that is irritatingly exploited by people who cut-in without signalling, and so have made peace with such incidents and do not react in anger.

Still, the likes of other hybrids that focus more on energy saving/regenerating than on safe driving gets to me, when they slam the brakes! All hybrids regenerate as soon as the gas pedal is lifted even slightly.

View the Motor Week's review (Episode 3436) of the BMW i3 - they specifically mention the hard braking recommended, and how much sharply the car slows down when the gas/power pedal is lifted! Nice recipe for chain collisions in the near future. The car does not even stop at an expected deceleration for such a light car, so front collisions! And, the car is an ugly collage, with narrow tires (contact patch), is expensive and cramped inside for the +2!

BMW - be warned, other magazines have also report this on their tests.

 

[Sill]

You do know that Exxon, BP, etc., get huge subsidies from their respective governments! That is just a sample of the Richie-rich subsidies. Let us not even get into the Agri, Pharma, Military moochers!

This.

Crony-capitalism is a real sore spot with me. Government subsidies take care of insiders while distorting the market. Its nothing more than fascism with a faint sheen of surface respectability. If the citizenry ever absorb this and get over the polarizing arguments that they are so involved in, I believe we'd have a much better world.

Apple is just a small player in this Eco-system - it is still a tech company that utilizes the renewable/efficient energy spectrum better than most companies, like using Chinese labor! Lots more companies, at a smaller scale contribute better to the reduction of pollution, and efficient use of available power sources!

So true. Decentralization is not just possible but necessary now.

The economy of scale was a great thing that enabled society to build to this point but now its time to decentralize. With 3D printing maturing its now possible to produce nearly everything at the local level. As I mentioned earlier, a lot of energy produced has been wasted in transmission. Imagine if the power was produced locally through small scale reactors, and if that power was used to take raw materials to a finished state. The only thing that would need to be carried over distance would be those raw materials. By spreading the means of production across a cellular structure, we'd also insulate the national infrastructure against external threats, weather, geological disaster, whatever.

But who am I kidding? The US govt would never allow any part of this country control over their own existence.

 

[KPOM]

You do know that Exxon, BP, etc., get huge subsidies from their respective governments! That is just a sample of the Richie-rich subsidies. Let us not even get into the Agri, Pharma, Military moochers!

Apple is just a small player in this Eco-system - it is still a tech company that utilizes the renewable/efficient energy spectrum better than most companies, like using Chinese labor! Lots more companies, at a smaller scale contribute better to the reduction of pollution, and efficient use of available power sources!

As a percentage of revenue renewable energy sources are far more subsidized than oil or gas.

 

[Sill]

As a percentage of revenue renewable energy sources are far more subsidized than oil or gas.

Elon Musk and Tesla have been on the receiving end of quite a bit of subsidies. They lost $100million on sales of under 10,000 cars, but received a "carbon credit" from the bankrupt state of California to the tune of $130mill. A lot of people are under the impression that he's some kind of game changer out there that has put his personal fortune at risk. Hardly.

 

[flat five]

The only question is how do you suppose Apple can improve on the habitable area of a car if that's such a mess? Simplify every control like acceleration, deceleration, and steering to a series of touch and voice commands? Will they make the car roomier so passengers are laying down instead of sitting down? How about a hover conversion and a Flux Capacitor?

you haven't seen minority report?
all future tech questions are answered in that movie.

 

[AustinIllini]

Do you have an Apple Watch? What do you not like about it?

I would be very happy to have a car that was thoughtfully designed as my Apple Watch.

I had one. Sold it before it crashed on eBay. It's a gadget. A toy. Something that your phone is better suited to use. I have made my opinions clear on that board. The Watch lacks the power of a smartphone, is inelegant when compared to a real timepiece, and is too expensive.

I fully expect whatever car Apple comes out with to completely miss the point of what makes people love their cars.

 

[edvj]

A few turbines would be great, especially to supplement other technologies. I just can't stomach the idea of the huge turbine farms. Others have mentioned the dangers to wildlife, but there are also health concerns. There is a large segment of the population that feel ill near these things. These people are getting pilloried as malingerers by the press and online blogs, but these same blogs also have stories about research into infrasonic frequencies - similar to those produced by wind turbines - and how they cause anxiety, paranoia, and depression. Infrasonic weapons have been developed by the military and have been used on a small scale already. Yet people complaining of discomfort after being around turbine farms are ridiculed. Maybe it has something to do with the crony capitalist money getting thrown at wind harvesting?

The problem isn't being framed correctly. People are getting fixated on "renewable energy", but fail to see that renewables don't have the energy density of combustibles. As we add more and more tech to our lives daily, the energy requirements go up. Renewable energy production is limited by the amount of energy the goes in to them, minus the transfer loss, minus the transmission loss. Combustible fuels have a higher energy input, but eventually even that will be outstripped by our demand for more tech. Nuclear is the only thing at present that can exceed our demand, and at a very low cost.

Please read this article for a layman's explanation of energy density. Also, check out the Toshiba 4S reactor design, as well as Hyperion/Gen4 Energy for new reactor models that are completely safe and produce minimal waste.

Finally, one factor that most people are either unaware of or choose to forget, is transmission loss. The present system of electric current transmission dissipates an enormous percentage of power. Talk all you want about EV and how clean they can be and efficient, and how they can all be powered by renewable energy, misses that enormous obstacle. In order for the world to convert to "clean and green" and get rid of all those evil internal combustion engines, the transmission loss will have to be conquered. I would have rather seen all the money that has been dumped into wind turbines go instead into advancing metal technology to make more efficient power lines.

In 2014 wind power produced the equivalent of 39% of Denmarks total electricity consumption ,from offshore wind farms like the Middelgrunden wind farm just outside Copenhagen
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wind_power_in_Denmark

 

[doelcm82]

A few turbines would be great, especially to supplement other technologies. I just can't stomach the idea of the huge turbine farms. Others have mentioned the dangers to wildlife, but there are also health concerns. There is a large segment of the population that feel ill near these things. These people are getting pilloried as malingerers by the press and online blogs, but these same blogs also have stories about research into infrasonic frequencies - similar to those produced by wind turbines - and how they cause anxiety, paranoia, and depression. Infrasonic weapons have been developed by the military and have been used on a small scale already. Yet people complaining of discomfort after being around turbine farms are ridiculed. Maybe it has something to do with the crony capitalist money getting thrown at wind harvesting?

Interesting. We know that combustibles cause health problems also. Environmental regulation has reduced the effects of people burning coal to heat their homes, or industries burning coal to run factories, or operate railroads. Automobiles' exhaust is far less troublesome than it once was. Fifty years ago, many cities were virtually unlivable. Gasoline no longer contains heavy metals that they had when I was younger. Every change has met with resistance, but I doubt anyone really wants to go back to smoggy cities or leaded gasoline.
Health problems from renewable energy sources will be addressed. Maybe not as quickly as activists like you would prefer, but they will be addressed, and the idea of breathing in gasoline vapors while fueling your car will seem as unthinkable as getting weekly deliveries of coal to your coal cellar.

I fully expect whatever car Apple comes out with to completely miss the point of what makes people love their cars.

I fully expect Apple's car to be very popular, and loved by its buyers. But a vocal group of people who "love their cars" will not be among Apple's fans.