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New SSD Acting Funny After Install

S

steiney

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Nov 6, 2009
504
36
Hello all!

I posted the following in the Mac OS X forum this morning but haven't received any responses, so I figured I'd try my luck here. See below:

I am running 10.6.8 on a 2007 Macbook Pro Core 2 Duo and I just swapped out the original 5400 RPM HD for an SSD about a week ago. I cloned the original drive to the new SSD using Disk Utility, booted to the SSD externally to make sure it worked, and then installed it in the computer.

Everything runs much quicker, but since I installed the SSD, I get periodic hangs about once per 1-2 hours and each hang lasts about 15-25 seconds. I don't get the spinning beach ball except towards the end of the hang, and usually the mouse still moves, but the entire system freezes otherwise and I can do anything. Then, after 15-25 seconds has passed, everything goes back to normal and all the actions I had performed during the hang are carried out really quickly.

I'd had freezes in the past with the original drive but nothing like what I'm now experiencing. Sure, an app would freeze and I would immediately get the spinning beach ball, but only the app would be frozen and everything else still worked.

I used iDefrag to analyze the SSD and it seems like I have a large amount of bad blocks, assuming I'm interpreting the iDefrag display correctly.

My question is: does this sound like I got a bad SSD? What's the deal with bad blocks? I don't think I completely understand it. Is there anything I can do to remedy the situation and the hanging? It's getting pretty frustrating. Sure, everything is faster, but the hangs are getting maddening.

If anyone has any insight or suggestions, I would love to hear them!

Thanks in advance,

steiney
 
I never recommend cloning to anybody. It just isn't the cleanest way to do it. There are problems that could arise copy pasting a hard drive to another.

While it may not be an option I'd recommend backing up the data and formatting the SSD and installing OSX fresh. It could resolve the problem.
 
johnnnw said:
I never recommend cloning to anybody. It just isn't the cleanest way to do it. There are problems that could arise copy pasting a hard drive to another.

While it may not be an option I'd recommend backing up the data and formatting the SSD and installing OSX fresh. It could resolve the problem.
Click to expand...

I second this.
 
johnnnw said:
I never recommend cloning to anybody. It just isn't the cleanest way to do it. There are problems that could arise copy pasting a hard drive to another.

While it may not be an option I'd recommend backing up the data and formatting the SSD and installing OSX fresh. It could resolve the problem.
Click to expand...

agreed.
 
Thanks for the the replies everyone! I know the fresh install is the better way to go, but I was under the impression that cloning was a safe alternative. Would I possibly see better results from doing the clone again?

It's just that if I do a fresh install, it's going to take forever to get everything set up the way it is now, and I'm on 10.6.8, running some programs that I don't believe I can get another copy of. Oh well.

It seems like the hangs are getting more frequent, by the way.

Any thoughts on the bad blocks? Has anyone used iDefrag before? What's the probability of my troubles being from cloning vs. bad blocks?

Thanks again!
 
blueroom said:
Which SSD is it?
Do a Time Machine backup.
Fresh OSX install.
TM restore.
Do not defrag an SSD ever.
Click to expand...

Holy crap! I can't believe I didn't think to use Time Machine. Duh. Wow. And I use Time Machine. I probably back up every 60 days or so, but still.

To answer your question, I got a Verbatim 128GB. Only $85 with free shipping at Amazon with Prime membership!

How is defragging damaging to the operating system on an SSD?
 
You can also do a clean OS install, then when prompted migrate your entire environment from the "clone" disk ... it gives the choice of either a disk or a Time Machine Backup.
 
hfg said:
You can also do a clean OS install, then when prompted migrate your entire environment from the "clone" disk ... it gives the choice of either a disk or a Time Machine Backup.
Click to expand...

Hmm, I never noticed there is a migrate feature built into the OS installation/setup. So I just install the OS like normal and after it's done installing I'll be prompted for the option to migrate an existing environment or restore from Time Machine?
 
steiney said:
Hmm, I never noticed there is a migrate feature built into the OS installation/setup. So I just install the OS like normal and after it's done installing I'll be prompted for the option to migrate an existing environment or restore from Time Machine?
Click to expand...

Yes, you will be given several choices for the source data while completing Setup Assistant. You can also use "Migration Assistant" in your Utilities folder at anytime after the completed install, but you can end up with 2 User Accounts if you initially create the startup account with the same name as in your migration data.
 
hfg said:
Yes, you will be given several choices for the source data while completing Setup Assistant. You can also use "Migration Assistant" in your Utilities folder at anytime after the completed install, but you can end up with 2 User Accounts if you initially create the startup account with the same name as in your migration data.
Click to expand...

Got it. Thanks for the info!
 
Besides the other advice given here, it is not advisable to clone an HDD to an SSD. With cloning there's the possibility of getting a wrong offset, resulting in misaligned clusters on the SSD. This could result in less than optimum performance, or other issues with the SSD. If you're going to install OS X from scratch, you should first delete all data and the existing partition, then let the SSD sit powered up with no data movement for 8 hours, or so. This will give the SSD time to do garbage collection to clear the space occupied by the previous OS X installation.
 
drambuie said:
Besides the other advice given here, it is not advisable to clone an HDD to an SSD. With cloning there's the possibility of getting a wrong offset, resulting in misaligned clusters on the SSD. This could result in less than optimum performance, or other issues with the SSD. If you're going to install OS X from scratch, you should first delete all data and the existing partition, then let the SSD sit powered up with no data movement for 8 hours, or so. This will give the SSD time to do garbage collection to clear the space occupied by the previous OS X installation.
Click to expand...

Okay, wow. I had no idea about that. Thanks for the info!
 
Just wanted to do a little follow up: You guys are going to think I'm an idiot, but instead of reinstalling the operating system on my new SSD, I tried cloning it again, and it's not any better than before.

It seems like the next step is to do the reinstall and then migrate from Time Machine, but it occurred to me, isn't there a feature in OS X where you put in the install CD (Snow Leopard in my case) and let it "repair" the operating system?

It seems like that would be easier that reinstalling the operating system and migrating data in respect to amount of time taken migrating and also difficulty of time machine not being stored on a FireWire drive.
 
steiney said:
Just wanted to do a little follow up: You guys are going to think I'm an idiot, but instead of reinstalling the operating system on my new SSD, I tried cloning it again, and it's not any better than before.
Click to expand...


At any point in time, have you first erased the SSD as others have suggested using Disk Utility? (Mac OS Journaled, no security options).

Does that Verbatim have the most recent firmware?
 
Yeah, I used Disk Utility to erase the SSD and to clone to it both times.

I don't know if the Verbatim has the latest firmware. I actually don't know how to find out or update it. I guess I can google for that answer though.

I'm really hoping I can just let the install CD repair the operating system instead of having to go through the whole reinstall process.
 
steiney said:
How is defragging damaging to the operating system on an SSD?
Click to expand...
There are two major reasons not to defrag a SSD.

The first is because it's pointless. Defragmenting a standard HDD places all data next to each other (and if I understand correctly, sorts it so that data that is often accessed together is clustered together) and all free space is with itself. With a mechanical hard drive a movable head must seek and find the data on the spinning platters, so shuffling the data together means less seek time since the head can move into position and stay there, reading all of the data in one track instead of bouncing all over the platter to find it. A SSD doesn't have any platters or seeking mechanical arms. Shuffling the data around isn't 100% pointless, but it's pretty close to being there.

The second reason is that SSDs have limited write cycles for each memory block. The exact number of write cycles varies depending on the drive and the type of memory in it. For most standard consumers this limitation isn't a big deal; for example, a 256 GB Samsung 840, which has some of the lowest write cycles due to its architecture (TLC, compared with MLC as used in most SSDs), is predicted to last around 7 years based on an average of 10 GB written per day. Defragmenting means that data is erased from one point and written to another. Suppose you have 64 GB of data, and defragmenting involves reshuffling 20 GB of it. That's 20 GB of write operations that you just performed on your drive, and all for nothing (see reason #1).
 
steiney said:
Hello all!

I posted the following in the Mac OS X forum this morning but haven't received any responses, so I figured I'd try my luck here. See below:

I am running 10.6.8 on a 2007 Macbook Pro Core 2 Duo and I just swapped out the original 5400 RPM HD for an SSD about a week ago. I cloned the original drive to the new SSD using Disk Utility, booted to the SSD externally to make sure it worked, and then installed it in the computer.

Everything runs much quicker, but since I installed the SSD, I get periodic hangs about once per 1-2 hours and each hang lasts about 15-25 seconds. I don't get the spinning beach ball except towards the end of the hang, and usually the mouse still moves, but the entire system freezes otherwise and I can do anything. Then, after 15-25 seconds has passed, everything goes back to normal and all the actions I had performed during the hang are carried out really quickly.

I'd had freezes in the past with the original drive but nothing like what I'm now experiencing. Sure, an app would freeze and I would immediately get the spinning beach ball, but only the app would be frozen and everything else still worked.

I used iDefrag to analyze the SSD and it seems like I have a large amount of bad blocks, assuming I'm interpreting the iDefrag display correctly.

My question is: does this sound like I got a bad SSD? What's the deal with bad blocks? I don't think I completely understand it. Is there anything I can do to remedy the situation and the hanging? It's getting pretty frustrating. Sure, everything is faster, but the hangs are getting maddening.

If anyone has any insight or suggestions, I would love to hear them!

Thanks in advance,

steiney
Click to expand...

I recommend you to backup your files and do a clean install. I don't recom cloning drives at all. They usually create problems
 
Okay, thanks guys. So what do you think the chance is that letting the install CD repair the OS will work?
 
Just a little follow up: I installed the old combo update and it seems to have helped a lot. I still get occasional system hangs, probably more than when I had the HD, but definitely less than I was getting before I installed the update.

I'm still considering running the install disc to repair the system.
 
Sorry to bump this old thread, but I have an update. Another weird problem has developed since my last post here. Now, when I shut the computer down, it will not restart unless I unplug the power cord and anything else plugged into it. If anything is plugged in, it will start up and make the chime sound, then just sit there showing the grey screen forever. Seems like a weird problem, although it's been reported several times in forums, etc. It's just that no one has attributed it to cloning from an HD to SSD.

Well, just thought I'd mention that in case anyone has any insights they'd like to share.
 
steiney said:
No. Do you think that's the cause?
Click to expand...

Actually :eek: I misread your post and thought your were talking about a Mac Pro, I don't recall if the Macbook Pro has a battery like that since it has a power battery. You may probably ignore my errant post. :eek: Sorry.


But the actions you described are similar to a SMC reset procedure. I know the clock and PRAM information is stored in a non-volatile RAM, sometimes backed up by a small battery. The batteries should last 10 years or so, but I just replaced one from a 2008 Mac Pro that was showing signs of leakage. Apple recommends changing that battery if you notice the clock being off, or other unexpected system behavior such as boot issues.
 
steiney said:
Sorry to bump this old thread, but I have an update. Another weird problem has developed since my last post here. Now, when I shut the computer down, it will not restart unless I unplug the power cord and anything else plugged into it. If anything is plugged in, it will start up and make the chime sound, then just sit there showing the grey screen forever. Seems like a weird problem, although it's been reported several times in forums, etc. It's just that no one has attributed it to cloning from an HD to SSD.

Well, just thought I'd mention that in case anyone has any insights they'd like to share.
Click to expand...

Just another thought ...

Have you reset the PRAM and SMC since you did your upgrades. These are easily done and solve some unexplained problems. That is the first thing the Apple Care techs always ask me to do when I have had a problem.

PRAM reset:
http://support.apple.com/kb/TS1365

SMC reset:
http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1411
 
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