Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
New Thunderbolt Gigabit Ethernet adapter - custom/not TB?
- Thread starter Anonymous Freak
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
its possible this will start working once the 10.7.5 update is released. Aren't the new macbook's running a modified version of 10.7.4 anyway? (i know there is the TB update but who knows)
That is an absurd assumption.
There are so many reasons to use a hard cable over wireless. But obviously you don't know them, so let me mention a few.
1. You work with large files, probably on a server. If you work in video, engineering, photography, science, etc., you will be doing this.
2. You work in IT. At some point you will probably have to directly jack into a switch, router, etc., to either troubleshoot or configure. And FYI, you would most likely need a laptop to do this. Good luck lugging a desktop to a remote closet.
3. You have a clue about security, or your work does. Wireless networks are laughably easy to hack. If you work in any corporation with a clue, whatever wireless network they have, if they even have one, is sandboxed to hell. As in designed as the kiddie pool of the network.
Those are 3 reasons right there that would cause MILLIONS of people to need a hard ethernet port.
But let's go with your idea that the vast majority of people with a laptop never plug an ethernet cable in. I would argue that those people are using lower end consumer product because they are doing low end computing. Grandma stuff like facebooking and web browsing. Maybe some simple word processing.
So, assuming your argument is factual, the overriding problem is that you are talking about the top of the line "pro" laptop from Apple, with an very, very premium price. Everything about it is overkill for the basic computer user, except for the lack of an ethernet port. The user you are talking about doesn't need a $600, low capacity (relative to a HDD) SSD. They don't need an ultrathin enclosure, other than for aesthetic reasons. They don't need multiple thunderbolt ports. Because why would they need multiple (expensive) monitor setups? Or external mass storage?
So yeah, if a big day of computing consists of facebooking and tweeting, with maybe a game of Angry Birds mixed in, most likely you will NOT need a hard ethernet connection. Then again, you do not need a $3000 computer.
There is a vast difference between iPad usage and Macbook Pro usage. I have an iPad. Its a great little device for traveling. And VERY occasional work usage. A top of the line Macbook Pro, on the other hand, would be for work first, play second. Wireless is fine for the iPad, desirable even. But I need a lot more from a primary workhorse computer. Like ethernet.
haha
I appreciate your lame attempt at constructing a condescending post as if I'm clueless about the needs of power users. I'm sitting here next to my 3 25" monitors and Mac mini that is networked to my 29U rack that contains a ton of hardware including a link aggregated Mac server with over 12 TB of storage, a 26 port Cisco switch, etc.Despite that, everything you just said is pointless - the adapter exists. The RJ45 port took up too much space. If you need wired networking, you use a ~6" long adapter and it works perfectly fine. End of story. If you don't need wired networking, use wireless.
It just seems like you're stuck in the past. We don't need a bunch of proprietary ports built into computers to accommodate every possible situation. That's the beauty of daisy chaining ports, you give 1 port and multiple devices could use it. In this case, you could plug a massive display, a massive external disk, and a gigabit ethernet port all into 1 single Thunderbolt port.
Future, meet past.
there is also the issue of buildings what they are made of and new ones were wireless just a few feet away from the wireless point you have no signal do to wiring and isulation of the building especially if its metal backed my moms desktop cant get a wireless signal as our house is cinder block and brick so going into that room the signal goes to zero
Not to nitpick but if you take into account a TB cable that has two thunderbolt connectors on either end costing $49, this $29 dongle is relatively more expensive for what it is.
May need special drivers only supplied in teh version of Lion on those machines.
----------
As he said. MOST users don't fit those criteria.
My GF's MBA has plugged into ethernet ONCE. To netboot/install lion. Which can now be done over wifi.
I have gig-e on my MBP. It was used for 2 weeks at work.
Yes there are plenty of reasons gig-e is useful, but fact is most end users don't use it very often.
Pro notebooks don't spend their lives on desks plugged into cables. If you want a desktop, you get a mac pro, for pro level work. Those that do spend a lot of time at a desk will/should invest in a dock (pulling ethernet cables back out from having fallen behind desks sucks, as does plugging in a bunch of cables into your machine.
Like a TB display or one of the other thunderbolt docks out there. Plug in power and TB, everything else is already there - including gig-e, thunderbolt boxes, USB peripherals, etc.
For road use, if you need it, there is an adapter. For the 2% of users who need it.
if you're in the retina MBP market, this sort of thing is not much more to buy, if you need it.
----------
As he said. MOST users don't fit those criteria.
My GF's MBA has plugged into ethernet ONCE. To netboot/install lion. Which can now be done over wifi.
I have gig-e on my MBP. It was used for 2 weeks at work.
Yes there are plenty of reasons gig-e is useful, but fact is most end users don't use it very often.
Pro notebooks don't spend their lives on desks plugged into cables. If you want a desktop, you get a mac pro, for pro level work. Those that do spend a lot of time at a desk will/should invest in a dock (pulling ethernet cables back out from having fallen behind desks sucks, as does plugging in a bunch of cables into your machine.
Like a TB display or one of the other thunderbolt docks out there. Plug in power and TB, everything else is already there - including gig-e, thunderbolt boxes, USB peripherals, etc.
For road use, if you need it, there is an adapter. For the 2% of users who need it.
if you're in the retina MBP market, this sort of thing is not much more to buy, if you need it.
Last edited:
have you ever tried to use a hotels wireless most are bad you get barley any signal and its slow cause of the guest bandwidth on wireless drops more than hardwired ethernet some hotels do offer ethernet jacks in their rooms i would rather go that way myself
haha
Despite that, everything you just said is pointless - the adapter exists. The RJ45 port took up too much space. If you need wired networking, you use a ~6" long adapter and it works perfectly fine. End of story. If you don't need wired networking, use wireless.
It just seems like you're stuck in the past. We don't need a bunch of proprietary ports built into computers to accommodate every possible situation. That's the beauty of daisy chaining ports, you give 1 port and multiple devices could use it. In this case, you could plug a massive display, a massive external disk, and a gigabit ethernet port all into 1 single Thunderbolt port.
Future, meet past.
lol. You basically described a SOHO set up. If you think that is a power user set up, more power to you. I have a 6TB server for home use with an additional 1TB of nearline storage. bfd. But to be fair, my needs are probably different from most users. And to be fair, I have no idea what you do for a living or what your computing needs are. But making a blanket comment about wifi being fine for everyone is the statement of a consumer client or novice.
Tell me, how well does that adapter work when booting into Windows or using Fusion or Parallels?
I already have to carry a dongle. A usb to rs-232 adapter for connecting to Cisco equipment. It's not a big deal, and have no desire for a real serial port on a laptop. But it's one more thing I have to carry around and have configured. Now I guess I have to carry another one just for ethernet.
I am hardly stuck in the past. I just, like millions of users, prefer or need a hard ethernet connections. While I like good design, and actually demand it for many things, I need functionality first. I could care less about having a .2in thinner laptop if it means sacrificing functionality. I am no slave to fashion when it comes to getting work done. Sorry.
Note that I haven't said anything about the lack of a superdrive. If I was stuck in the past, I'd be harping on that. If I was stuck in the past, I'd be harping about SSDs. If I was stuck in the past, I'd be harping about the lack of a serial port. Please.
But whatever. I was simply commenting on your silly idea that no one needs ethernet and that wifi is the way to go. FYI, if I wanted a laptop with less functionality, a la what a client needs, I'd have gotten a macbook air a long time ago. And no, I don't think the MBA is a bad machine. I think its great for a lot of people. It is just too limited for me.
And I find it amusing that you talk about one port and daisy chaining as if its some kind of leap into the future. It sounds like your future means having an ultrathin and light laptop and then carrying around an additional pile of adapters and accessories in your bag. Net weight and space savings in said bag? Zero.
It's like off-loading laptop weight and space to a power brick. You still need to carry it around with you in your bag.It seems like you are looking to create arguments. Everyone, Apple included, sees the utility of an ethernet port. However, hopefully everyone can also see why it was nixed from the retina Macbook Pro. When you can meet all of your design and performance objectives at a slim form factor, you are not going to increase the bulk of the device unless it is absolutely 100% crucial and there is no workaround. With the adapter there is a workaround now, so Apple made the choice to make ethernet an option via adapter.And I find it amusing that you talk about one port and daisy chaining as if its some kind of leap into the future. It sounds like your future means having an ultrathin and light laptop and then carrying around an additional pile of adapters and accessories in your bag. Net weight and space savings in said bag? Zero.
Everyone also, I believe can see that the ethernet port is a poorly designed port. Would you agree with that? There's no reason for it being that size and if everyone just sits around saying, "well that's how it's always been and so we need to support that legacy port format because otherwise it's an inconvenience." Horsecrap. If the standard changed and smaller form factor port was created I think there's a really good chance it would be in the next-gen Macbook Pros.
So for now you have to carry around a cable. This has pros and cons. The con is if you didn't bring it and you need/want it, you're SOL. The benefit is that you can choose to bring it only when you need it. Thereby dismantling your "net 0" claim.
Lastly, you are not bitching about the superdrive because you don't use the superdrive regularly. It's not the vital component to your workflow. If it was I have no doubt that you would be raving here about the injustice of taking it out of the laptop.
I'm one of the 10's of millions of mac users that rarely use an ethernet port. If I got a retina Macbook Pro I would get the adapter. I would include it as the overall cost of the laptop in my mind and I would bring it with me when I thought I would need it. It's not the end of the world. It's barely even an inconvenience. ****.
Nobody made a blanket statement. I, and others, said the vast majority. That does not include everyone.
Boohoo.
If you don't like the laptop, don't buy it. I'm always amazed how people bitch about these things. If you don't want it, don't get it.
Serial ports? Bah, I miss my 25 pin LPT ports!
And I find it amusing that you talk about one port and daisy chaining as if its some kind of leap into the future. It sounds like your future means having an ultrathin and light laptop and then carrying around an additional pile of adapters and accessories in your bag. Net weight and space savings in said bag? Zero.
I think you've misunderstood the point of laptops.
---
Hey, we both agree that sometimes ethernet is needed, but for a lot (most?) people WiFi is just fine. If the computer doesn't suit your needs, don't buy it. There really isn't any disagreement between us.
----------
You know, that's a fantastic point that I've never considered. The RJ45 port is just ridiculously big and it doesn't need it. Does anyone know why the size is the way it is? Is it just legacy?
My Thunderbolt cable is capable of 10 times the speed of gigabit ethernet, and yet the port is smaller and more manageable.
Again, I was just pointing out the foolishness of stating that an ethernet port is worthless legacy tech. I was pointing out that many, many people, including myself have need of one. And obviously, Apple thought so too, since they did NOT eliminate the existing Macbook Pro. Shame you can't get a retina display for it. I'd have happily paid 2500 or whatever for a old-style Macbook pro with a retina display. And happily lived with the humongous world-changing .2in extra thickness.
The ethernet port isn't the greatest physical form factor anymore, yes. But performance-wise, there is nothing wrong with it. Personally, I would have liked a switch to fiber based connections years ago. But that's just me. For obvious reasons, ethernet has stuck around. I'm not going to discuss why the port is the way it is. If you don't know, I'd suggest reading up on the history of computer networks.
I get what you are saying regarding form factor. But I think that Apple addressed a problem that didn't exist. I don't think I heard a lot of people complaining that the Macbook Pro was too thick. And they could have made it thinner and lighter by simply removing the HDD and optical drive. And I'd suggest that the ethernet port was NOT the limiting factor. But that is another discussion.
And regarding the superdrive. Yes, I actually have need for one. So no, its not just a question of if I care about it or not. Nice try. But I'm not talking about it because the argument to remove it is valid. It adds weight and size. It is slow. It is relatively low capacity. It is a source of heat. It is a point of failure. There is virtually no downside to an external drive (other than added cost and having to lug it around). The writing is on the wall that it optical media is going away. For all of the same reasons, I didn't care a bit that the floppy drives were dropped by Apple back in the day.
None of those things, other than taking up a little space, applies to ethernet. Ethernet is ubiquitous and superior to wifi in just about every way but convenience. There is a difference between removing something that is obviously becoming legacy (like floppies or optical drive, a POTS modem, or even a HDD) and removing something that is still a widely used current standard. But whatever.
If it turns out the thunderbolt ethernet adapter is fully transparent and works seamlessly in every instance, including boot camp, emulation, vm's, and anything tied to a MAC address, then I might have no argument with it as a solution. I have actually been looking for information on that, and how it works in conjunction with other non-networking devices, which lead me to this thread. I have no love for the ethernet port. I just need to have one. If the adapter is truly transparent, then I'll most likely be fine with it. But if that is the case, they should have included 3 thunderbolt ports. I have no desire to spend $400 for a thunderbolt hub.
And ultimately, I get it. YOU don't need ethernet, so you don't care if it is there. And obviously, since you don't need it, no one does. I'm sure if you personally didn't need a keyboard you'd be dismissing anyone that needed anything more than an iPad. All a keyboard does is add size and weight, right? Besides, you can always buy an external keyboard for the iPad anyway. And yeah, this is a pointless discussion.
one reason its the size it is. it helps keep interference down it keeps the twisted pairs at the plug from cross talking each other
Well, not really. I think we would all agree that WiFi is more readily available than ethernet. I've never seen ethernet cables available at Starbucks, nor have I seen them in airports or on airplanes. I'm sure there are some airports with kiosks set up to provide ethernet access, but every airport in America has WiFi (perhaps at a cost.) Almost every hotel room has Wifi, and a good portion of those have ethernet too. Hospitals have WiFi, etc. Ethernet is much, much more readily available than ethernet.
Why would you need a thunderbolt hub? You just put the ethernet adapter at the end of the daisy chain.
And ultimately, I get it. YOU need ethernet, so you care if it is there. And obviously, since you need it, everyone does. I'm sure if you personally need a keyboard you'd be dismissing anyone that didn't need anything more than an iPad. All a keyboard does is add size and weight, right? Besides, you can always buy an external keyboard for the iPad anyway.
macidiot said:
Agreed.
There will always be edge cases you can mention - and I agree if there was ZERO ways of getting gigabit ethernet on the machine, it would be a tragedy. For pro users, 100 meg is a joke. 1gig isn't even fast enough. Luckily, that ISN'T the case.
I maintain: for most people who use the machine at home or in a small office, they don't need ethernet very often, if ever. They certainly don't need ethernet when they're outside, or on the road - so why carry it all the time when it could be battery.
IF and WHEN you need it, the dongle is available.
edit:
if we're e-peen measuring on what server gear we maintain, i've got 2 vsphere clusters one with a usable 30tb of RAID-DP / RAID50, and another with 6tb of RAID10. I have bundled 10gig-e on my network. Maintaining cisco network gear and enterprise storage is part of my job.
It doesn't make any difference, for a portable machine, replacing a gig-e port with a more versatile port (your gig-e turned into additional TB, which you could plug a 10-gig ethernet adapter into in future - 10 gig is already out there and has been for years - its only a matter of time before it filters down to consumer level gear) less weight or more battery is a fair trade-off.
Last edited:
Apple, meet orange. There's a big difference between having it and not needing it and needing it and not having it. I'd take 20 things on any electronics appliance or car I own and never need them, than the reverse.
I NEED a lightweight notebook with minimal thickness and maximum battery life.
/circular argument
if the MBP-R doesn't suit you, buy an MBP.
Never mind that you can potentially have 10 gig ethernet an MBP-R as you have a second thunderbolt port, which is far more versatile, moving forward.
Sounds like a 13" Air to me.
And I've ordered the RMBP. I'm willing to make the compromise. Doesn't mean I disagree with those who aren't.
Everything is a compromise. Everything. Not one thing is so perfect that everyone who finds fault is wrong.
Wait a minute.... Can a "network connection" be established between two TB macs with a Thundebolt cable? Or do you mean target disk mode?
Isn't the argument a bit moot, as the ethernet port is simply too big to fit?
If it did fit, then I think we could complain at Apple. But it won't, and do we really want them to make the whole thing bigger just for a single port? I don't think so. Adapter is a reasonable compromise in my book, but it wouldn't have done them too much harm to chuck one in, or offer a discount if bought with the device, might have resolved some of these complaints.
If it did fit, then I think we could complain at Apple. But it won't, and do we really want them to make the whole thing bigger just for a single port? I don't think so. Adapter is a reasonable compromise in my book, but it wouldn't have done them too much harm to chuck one in, or offer a discount if bought with the device, might have resolved some of these complaints.
i dont mind wireless and i dont mind an adapter but my problem is that alot of people on this site think wireless perfect and you will never have problems with it. my house is one of the problems with wireless were my moms computer is you can only have ethernet hardline going to it even thou the wireless adapter is built into it. ive been to a hotel and decided to play world of warcraft that was joke as the wireless i was using i could not get enough bandwidth to play it hate to see a massive data transfer then. i do have good luck at a friends house as i set his wireless up so its near perfect
Not sure, but 10 gigabit ethernet already exists (i'm using it in my servers). When there's a dongle made for TB, you can have it. You can't do that with a 1 gig ethernet port.
So, smaller port, more versatile, can have 1 gig ethernet today and 10 gig in the future.
What's not to like?
I think macidiot's point was why did Apple need to slim down the MacBook Pro Retina so much that a port wouldn't fit in the first place. Ie, he wouldn't mind if it was .2" thicker if he didn't have to use a dongle. It's a valid point. But, it definitely highlights that RJ45 ports are too big and perhaps one day they'll work on making them smaller, etc.
Someone posted about the history of the RJ45 port, I don't know anything about that. But, If we have technology that is so much faster than gigabit ethernet, then why can't networks migrate that way? I imagine cost is a factor - a Cat6 cable is like less than a dollar a foot, and a 6 foot thunderbolt cable is $50. And I'm sure the length of cable runs has something to do with it too. I don't know.
One neat thing about Apple is that they aren't scared to say "Eh, we see things moving away from that technology, we can go ahead and leave that off, and if you really want it, we'll make a dongle for you." (Kinda validates our points that the majority of laptop uses probably use WiFi most of the time.)
----------
How does 10 gigabit work? Is it still twisted pair? Or is it fiber?
That's a great point about how you can upgrade the dongle!
At the moment i believe it is 10gb over copper up to 5m maybe a little more (I have some 5m copper 10gb cables from my Cisco switch to my SAN). Fibre for further than that. The cables aren't currently cheap. From memory they were about $150 each (SFP+ port on each end)
But then, gigabit over copper took a while to come out (after it was initially running over fibre only) too.
Of course apple haven't put out a 10 gig ethernet dongle yet, but the bandwidth is there for it in that port.
edit:
the "expensive" part on thunderbolt cables is the transceivers at each end of the cable. same as for my copper cisco twinax cables for 10 gig ethernet. when you compare thunderbolt cable price to cisco Twinax cable price (both 10 gig over copper) the thunderbolt option is cheap.
The price will eventually come down. 10 gig is still pretty damn quick for external connectivity, unless you're playing at the very high end of town, its all you'll get in enterprise network gear. as in, big cisco core switches that cost a quarter of your typical house. getting more than 10 gig is currently usually a case of teaming multiple 10 gig ports.
Last edited: