New timetable for Mac Pro 2013

Discussion in 'Mac Pro' started by jbg232, Apr 10, 2013.

  1. jbg232 macrumors 65816

    jbg232

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2007
    #1
    Not sure why there isn't a thread on this already (or a macrumors story on it). Intel announced the release dates of the E5 and E7 Xeon processors today with those timeframes being Q3 and Q4 for the E5 and E7 respectively. You can check it out here. As these are the first ivy-bridge xeon platforms, they are one piece of what apple was probably waiting for before they upgraded the mac pro.
     
  2. wallysb01 macrumors 65816

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    Jun 30, 2011
    #2
    Its been disucessed on these pages quite a lot actually, just not under thread titles so clearly labeled.

    And I think the most popular opinion on these boards (well, at least mine) is now that this Ivy Bridge e5 release date is just to close for a Sandy Bridge Mac Pro. Rather, we will see an Ivy Bridge Mac Pro some time late Q3 or Q4, assuming we see it at all over course....
     
  3. jbg232 thread starter macrumors 65816

    jbg232

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    Oct 15, 2007
    #3
    Exactly, I too believe it will be Q3-Q4 instead of this month or even at WWDC.
     
  4. tamvly macrumors 6502a

    tamvly

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    Nov 11, 2007
    #4
    Perhaps off topic - Sandy Bridge, Ivy Bridge, E5, E6, Zeon, i7 ... frankly, IMHO, the jargon machine is way out of control. I don't think Intel is doing itself a favor with all the crazy ways they segment and name their products. I don't want to use the brain cells to keep track of all this.

    Hopefully on topic - My first boss in the computer biz taught me a lesson many years ago: don't confuse effort with results. I'll believe it when I see it.
     
  5. goMac macrumors 603

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2004
    #5
    WWDC was always a very optimistic timeframe. I never really saw it in the cards.

    Still thinking the E3's are looking like a more likely choice on a new Mac Pro. Those might line up better with a possible WWDC release.
     
  6. elvisizer macrumors 6502

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    May 29, 2003
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    San Jose
    #6
    if there's no major case redesign i'd be shocked if we didn't see something at WWDC. maybe not a shipping product, but i'd expect at least a mention or a demo. that would give them time to wait for the IB procs, too- intel will probably give apple early access to them anyway.
    if there's a new case, then I agree we're looking at the end of the year if we're lucky.
     
  7. wallysb01 macrumors 65816

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    #7
    I wouldn't be too surprised to see a little teaser of something mentioned at WWDC for the Mac Pro. They basically have nothing to lose and only something to gain at this point. They already let it slip, telling people they were going to do something in 2013. So, as 2013 reaches the half way point, you'd have to be desperate to buy a new Mac Pro to actually buy one regardless of what they do. But by reenforcing the notion that something is going to happen, you might save some people jumping ship to Dell/HP, especially as Ivy Bridge E5 workstations show up a little ahead of a Mac Pro. Some people might find it pretty hard to wait much longer at that point, if there is not even a rumor of a new Mac Pro coming from Apple yet.
     
  8. spaz8 macrumors 6502

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    Mar 3, 2007
    #8
    I have been thinking July'13 - Sept '13 is the earliest we'll see an new MP since last fall. Its nice to dream Apple gets some early batch of chips again, believe me I want to replace my 1,1 ASAP.


    I hope they don't go with the E3, one 4 core/8 thread chip, and only 8MB L3 is a pretty huge change in direction. Though a heck of a lot cheaper too. And the max of 32 GB of ram, that's what I would install today, let alone my needs in a couple years. I know many already with more installed in their MP's. The E5v2 probably with one 1600 series, and two 2600 series options is my guess.
     
  9. deconstruct60 macrumors 604

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    Mar 10, 2009
    #9
    I don't think that is accurate. What is out of control is how users do a mismash of talking about the product lines, brands, and future updates. People muddle contexts and product lines and wrong labels on the wrong things. That is primarily what causes the confusion.


    There is absolutely nothing crazy about how Intel labels the Xeon products.

    http://communities.intel.com/commun...n-processor-numbering-more-than-just-a-number

    Brand, Product Line , Product family version , "wayness" (number of sockets ) , socket type.

    It hasn't always been that way, but has been "fixed" for over 2 years.


    The core i and especially the i7 are more nuanced in differences, but the server/workstation naming is quite clear. i7 should probably be split into i7 and perhaps i9 to more clearly label the two product lines that currently share that label.


    Where the tracking gets messed up is where users start use labels on the wrong thing and to make broad sweeping assumptions that have nothing to do with Intel's naming.

    One problem is that folks try to use the microarchitecture code names to peg a group of processors to a year or short period of time. It has uses for a group of future processors, but once the products are out it generally lacks clarity.

    The other hugely flawed at this point assumption is that Intel is releasing updates to the whole spectrum of products on the same microarchitecture at the same time. So that if a Haswell Core i5 is coming in june then a Haswell E7 much be coming in this year (or so) also. That isn't true.

    The other huge flaw with the microarchtecture is that people use it to reference both CPU and the associated chipsets. The microarchitecture revisions are not necessary one-to-one mapped to the chipsets.

    The "v2", "v3" , etc labels that should start to be more consistently used should get rid of the special microarchitecture code names that float around. Again Intel has cleaned it up. It is the usage in forums like this that is way behind the curve.


    Finally, the other aspect that folks are drifting on is that the CPU is just were the x86 cores live. That is increasing not true. There are multiple aspects of functionality inside of that package now. Different product lines have different groupings. While it is more complicated to keep track of which product line does which grouping there aren't that many product lines.


    Folks are often lazy when talking about topics. They say "There is a Haswell Xeon being released in Q3". That is like saying "there is a blue Ford" in the parking lot of a large mall. It is not as specific as saying "There is a blue Ford Thunderbird" in the parking lot. There are lots of times where folks say something like "Haswell Xeon" where what is more needed is "Haswell Xeon E3".

    In the Mac Pro context the other user generated problem is that folks keep dragging Core iX issues , names , and developments into discussions about the Mac Pro which do NOT use those products. Probably is not going to use those products. Again that isn't Intel's fault. Or Apple's.
     
  10. deconstruct60 macrumors 604

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    Mar 10, 2009
    #10
    That is one of the reasons why they should have been targeting this first half of the year. Q4 leaves users in desperate state for a quarter. Long term that isn't gong to do the Mac Pro product line any favors. Apple has already put folks in the EU markets into that state for a couple of months.

    Releasing with the current Xeon E5 would be OK if the v2 (next gen Ivy Bridge) models are really only going to be available in volume close to start of Q4 (sept-oct ).

    Apple doesn't necessarily have to upgrade to the v2 models as soon as possible. If that was an absolute necessity the Mac Pro is "dead" already because it has been almost 12 months since Apple didn't ship with the new Xeon E5 . Apple could do the current E5 now and the E5 v2 in January-March 2014.

    The largely unmotivated notion is what is E5 v2's in Oct-December or Oct-January going to do to offset all the damage that is being done from now till the end of that extended delay.

    Apple is not going to be releasing something that is revolutionary faster , cheaper , etc than everything else on the market so that there will be a tidal wave of folks rushing into Apple's market that never would have come before. There is no "silver bullet" in waiting for E5 v2.
     
  11. MacsRgr8 macrumors 604

    MacsRgr8

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    The Netherlands
    #11
    Indeed. Especially as over here in Europe we cannot even buy a Mac Pro. No matter how desperate we are! :eek:
     
  12. deconstruct60, Apr 11, 2013
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2013

    deconstruct60 macrumors 604

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    Mar 10, 2009
    #12
    I would because it would be just a "the dog ate my homework" excuse. The broader mainstream press is not paying attention to the Mac Pro. Outside of tech blogs and rumors sites looking for a quick hit ad view generator from agitiated Mac Pro users, the Mac Pro is non news story.

    Apple getting up on stage with millions of viewers tuning in, including press that doesn't normally spend much time paying attention to products like the Mac Pro, and then effectively saying "we couldn't manage to get a machine out 12 months after our competitors did" is now big time news. That would quickly be turned into at least a sentence, if not a paragraph, of " Steve Jobs is dead and Apple cannot seem to get products out the door on time anymore" story fragment. ( delayed iMac would be used to support this. )

    Apple is going to go onto stage at WWDC and pitch winners, not loosers. "The dog ate my homework" is a looser. Big time looser. Apple's product management of the Mac Pro over the last 2 years is a looser; not a winner. It isn't going to get a prime time spotlight.


    If Apple did anything around WWDC timeframe would be another one of these controlled leaks through either another one/two Tim Cook emails or one of these 'short list' trusted leak paths (e.g., Dalrymple ( http://www.loopinsight.com/ ) or Gruber ( http://daringfireball.net/ ) ) . Something like :

    User42 email : "Tim, Dude it has been a year since you said some Mac Pro in 2013. 2013 is is half over, the Mac Pro is barred from EU Markets , and the Mac Pro is generally in SNAFU status. Got any actions to back up the words"

    Tim: "Just wait, we are working on something insanely great due before the year is over."
     
  13. Tesselator macrumors 601

    Tesselator

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    Jan 9, 2008
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    Japan
    #13
    Yup, all indications are that we will indeed get some tidbits. It'll be interesting to see/hear what they are. :)
     
  14. tamvly macrumors 6502a

    tamvly

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    Nov 11, 2007
    #14
    I think you made my point rather eloquently ...
     
  15. deconstruct60 macrumors 604

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    Mar 10, 2009
    #15
    Not really because the essence of your point was

    "... I don't want to use the brain cells to keep track of all this. ... "

    but

    " ... I don't think Intel is doing itself a favor with all the crazy ways they segment and name their products. ... "

    The primary root cause issue of the jargon problem is the first, not the second aspect.

    When people don't want to understand the details but the details are a necessary part of a discussion there is typically a problem no matter what language encoding is used.

    Intel doesn't sell end user oriented processor products so there isn't going to be to "we just sell these 6 processors" level of complexity to the breadth of the product line up. Intel sells 100's of different processors that go into 100,000's of different products. If you don't want to acknowledge that reality that isn't primarily Intel's failure.
     
  16. wallysb01 macrumors 65816

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    Jun 30, 2011
    #16
    I don't see it so much as "the dog ate my homework," but rather as damage control. I understand Apple wants to push the "winners" and they absolutely should. However, if they do plan to introduce a new Mac Pro in 2013, especially if it is going to be during the summer or early fall with Sandy Bridge, they would be well served to make potential custumers want to wait for it. That is because these potential custumers, in my mind anyway, are much more likely to defect to Dell/HP than to buy that 3 year old machine they sell now.

    The end goal is what behavior helps make them the most money, not avoids the most bad press. Even if they do get some bad press from a half hearted Mac Pro slide or two, Apple likely wouldn't care if they think it will help them make more money. And I think it would help them make more money on the Pro.
     
  17. deconstruct60 macrumors 604

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    Mar 10, 2009
    #17
    Apple didn't wait for WWDC to do damage control for Antennagate. Damage control doesn't involve waiting extended periods of time until the timetable for a big 'dog and pony show' rolls around. If something requires damage control, do it. Create a laser focused meeting with the media/public about the issue and outline the immediate means going to use to address it. That is "best practices" damage control.

    All Apple events are focused on a fixed, relatively small set of topics. Piling on more divergent topics onto the WWDC agenda isn't likely going to pass muster. Unless there is some significant new OS X feature that only primarily works on a Mac Pro ( unlikely) there not much motivation to put the Mac Pro front and center at WWDC (even if there wasn't this lengthy wait.)


    I know Mac Pro fans want to make it a bigger deal to a wider audience. Perhaps wider customer pressure will grease the wheels. But there is no way Apple is going to amplify that on purpose. It really doesn't help the long term cause for Mac Pro users to whip other Mac users into a FUD frenzy either.


    The problem is that factor has been in place since June 2012. HP has been selling Xeon E5 alternatives for 10 months now. They can actually import and sell new boxes in the EU markets for the last two months and will have able to do so for the last four months by June's WWDC.

    Apple has already invoked the Osborne Effect last June. They increased the implosion this Feb-March. There is very little they can get up on stage and say ( without being to directly back up with action) to stop the implosion that is already built up this much inertia if they wait until June. The only thing that is going to significantly stop that is actually shipping a new box. Apple talked last June. Apple talked in January when announced EU withdrawal deadline. They have already talked alot more than any other future product on their roster.

    As for potential customers in the short term between June and late Q3/early Q4 talking likely has little real impact. Anyone who has pressing short term needs a machine with higher/faster capabilities for projects is going to buy. Few, if any, are going to defer work now so that can purchase a Mac Pro later. And the people who will probably do purchases later, will still purchase something in the future. There is only a much smaller subset who are angry/upset/pissed-off and just buying "something else" even though sticking with a Mac Pro would have been the much more inexpensive move.

    The subset of folks for whom the migration would actually show an positive ROI in 3-12 months were probably leaving whether or not shipped a new Mac Pro or not. They are a non issue with respect to damage control.

    Apple ( and 3rd party vendors) have already done more damage control than a WWDC dog and pony dance by getting 10.8.3 out the door along with the 3 new, much faster GPU cards that are available. Positioning more users to get by without doing any major migrations at all for a much longer timespan and a much smaller purchase than a new system. That will retain more real candidates for future Mac Pros than any dog and pony show will. It is real action which matters even if it is a "finger in the dike".


    If Apple really wanted to do better damage control they should have made sure to release a scoped down 10.8.3 in December/January timeframe weeks before they announced the EU market withdrawal. There was zero good reason to tightly couple the rest of 10.8.3 to getting those drivers out. That tight coupling was a dubious move from a Mac Pro perspective. That would have done far more to freeze users in place than WWDC can by June 2013 context.


    Apple would have made more money with the Mac Pro over the last 10 months if they had released a E5 model last June. The amount of money wasn't and isn't the primary issue on the table here. That is one of the primary reasons the press isn't paying attention to it if Apple doesn't bring up the topic.

    For example, Look at Kuo's revised roadmap that is the front page article now.

    http://www.macrumors.com/2013/04/11...phone-5s-lower-cost-iphone-and-new-ipad-mini/

    even in his original mapping for 2013 the Mac Pro isn't even present at all. If holistically looking at Apple Inc., it is a non factor. The keynote speech at WWDC is about Apple as a whole. Then the relation to developers. Then some products they are going to ship that directly related to the new developer APIs just talked about.


    Another example is how Apple sandwiched the EU Market withdrawal story between two much wider impact stories a day on either side of that press release.
     
  18. WardC macrumors 68030

    WardC

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    Oct 17, 2007
    Location:
    Fort Worth, TX
    #18
    I am really enjoying reading all of this...

    I also have a feeling that Apple will NOT release/introduce the "new" Mac Pro at WWDC this year. The announcement may come earlier, as early as late April or early May, that is my best guess.

    I do not think Apple will wait until after WWDC to introduce this new Mac Pro. There are several reasons, but the main one is that Apple cannot leave the EU market in the dark for 4+ months with no professional computing solution. Secondly, this 1000+ days cannot stretch to 1200+ days...I just don't see it happening.

    Apple may keep the same case design and redesign the hardware inside, adding Thunderbolt, SATA-III, and either Sandy Bridge E5 or Ivy Bridge E5 if they can get those chips on time. The optical drives may or may not be present in the new Mac Pro, given the direction Apple has been going, eliminating the optical drives.

    Flash storage may come standard as well.

    These are just a few of the things that have been on my mind about the new Mac Pro, and what I think is likely.
     
  19. steveOooo macrumors 6502a

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    UK
    #19
    I think a new apple display similar to the new iMac will also launch at the same time as the new MacPro - with a matte finish!
     
  20. thekev macrumors 604

    thekev

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    #20
    If for some reason they wanted to use E3s, there was no reason to wait this long. Those are based on mainstream designs and launch on a completely different and more regular schedule. Haswell E3s should be out this year.
     
  21. RoastingPig macrumors 68000

    RoastingPig

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    #21
    has apple ever gotten chips early on any mac's across the board?
     
  22. bsbeamer macrumors 6502

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    #22
  23. VirtualRain, Apr 11, 2013
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2013

    VirtualRain macrumors 603

    VirtualRain

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    #23
    They were shipping the Nehalem Xeons in 2009 about a month before anyone else... And that was back when the Xeons were released before the desktop and mobile parts. Now Intel seems to release the mobile/desktop parts well before the Xeon equivalents, negating any real marketing advantage that might come from exlusive early access to these parts. Oh, and I recall the original Mac Air also debuted with an exclusive low power CPU at the time.

    For what little its worth (FWLIW), Apple must be waiting for Ivy Bridge Xeons its the only thing that makes any sense.
     

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