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New to Consoles and Need an answer

G

galganog

macrumors member
Original poster
So I was thinking to myself that I may want to finally cave in and by a console but I tried to play some games on them, FPS games and found that I tottally suck with aiming with the control pad.

Are there a mouse and keyboard type control pad that i could by to give me the control of a pc game without having to revert to the stupid joystick?

Any links or name brands would be appreciated.
 
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there are, but I really can't think of name, at lest u know now
 
You may well improve... I was a hardened PC gamer who thought that I'd never cut it with a game pad, but I don't suck anymore and can definitely hold my own (and then some!) in games like Rainbow Six: Vegas/GRAW etc...

But I do still wish (a little) that the 360 would have keyboard and mouse control, as much as that would change online play for the worse...
 
I too was a hardcore gamer on my Mac, I refused to play FPS games on a console for a long time... but then i started to drift from my mac for gaming, but i love FPS's so much, so i caved... the analog sticks take some getting used to, but if you stick to your guns (no pun intended) you will get it... it just takes some practice.

I don't know if you are old enough to remember, but up until the first rainbow six on PC back in 1998, there was no mouse control... and that obviously took some getting used to, but now it is the standard... i think it is worthwhile for you to try and adapt, instead of stagnating.... i also hear that those peripherals are a little unresponsive (compared to the actual controller that is)
 
You get used to it. People here go on and on like you can't really game with a pad and you can't "twitch" with a pad. I've seen people that can smoke almost any mouse and keyboard gamer with a pad. Some folks grew up with pads or adapt well to them. Some like keyboards...some can do both. I'm mediocre with all of them, but actually do a bit better with a pad after lots of Halo play....and I was mouse looking from the Quake 1 days...still remember the first time my friend showed me how to set up a text file to quick load settings and added in a +mlook command to the line 🙂

Paul
 
Yep, and I'm one of those people that go on an on about thumb-aiming, because of comments like yours, where as you've seen people using gimppads smoke almost any k+m peep makes me wonder about the skill level of the peeps you hang out with. 😱 I know it's plausible, some of my LAN friends SUCK at FPS games in general and were always easy to pick off no matter what input I was using, but for the rest of us that have always been better at them, we will tear any thumb-twiddler a new one -- even on an unfamiliar map. Using a thumb-stick to aim is just an inferior means to move a pointer. It's slower than a mouse and it's not even in the same galaxy when it comes to precision. When the game calls for this, being required to do so with one's thumb on a tiny pivot is by no means the best option.

The reason I go on about thumb-twiddlers -- to be a broken record -- isn't solely because of the above aspects, but because console games and their popularity have had an adverse effect on the PC games I've always liked, where as developers have been dumbing things down for this cumbersome control setup. Games that were once challenging and more complicated, have now been simplified for console TARDs.

Analogue sticks are good for movement, not aiming. This isn't really debatable since the overall consensus of long time gamers aren't willingly ignorant about the subject. Most peeps that have questioned the k+m setup were of the 3D console generation and simply didn't know any better -- I've encountered these weirdoes at the game store my friend used to manage. Play Halo on hard on a PC with a k+M and you'll see how ridiculously easy the game is. But if comfort is your thing, than sitting on a couch with a gamepad does have an edge. BLAH!!!

The sooner MS takes heed of Sony's optional mouse support and Nintendo's dedicated pointer, the sooner games will start to once again ramp up in their sophistication, not just their visual appeal.

And to ramble further:
I do have a joystick-type-device on my desk that rivals a mouse when it comes to speed and presicion, which could probably be adapted for gamepads, but it's to pricey at the moment and it's not meant to be moved with just the thumb. It's a 6-axis input that I use for moving around my 3D models. I have the earlier SpaceTraveler which was $160 at the time.

<]=)
 
I've seen people running and sniping people just fine with a gamepad...as good as any km combo. I'm not saying it's a perfect solution but to dismiss all gamepad players as "lesser" players is stupid at best. Some people prefer certain types of movements and others prefer playing another way.

I used a wooden bat in Little League while everyone else used super fancy alluminum bats with huge heads at the end that were space engineered. I hit more homers at the end of the season than anyone else...some people grew up with different and are perfectly capable with the limitations others can't cope with.

To me the km combo really sucks in certain situations and it's more of a liability for me than a help...but my hand fits an Xbox controller so well so maybe that's it (talking the big old one, not this tiny new one)...

FPS's can be played equally as well regardless of the setup with practice...games like RTS on the other hand are still WAY behind...

Paul
 
Its simple.

Think of where your playing the games. That context means everything.

When playing a console your generally on your couch and sat relaxing. Therefore a keyboard and mouse is quite an impractical solution in that scenario.

Yes there will be people who are willing to bring in a table, sit hunched up like some John Merrick hybrid, but generally the majority of players in their living room really do not wish to use keyboards and mice.

The fact that keyboard and mice are the defacto standard on PC shooters is a no brainer seeing as though every PC pretty much uses a keyboard and mouse, and the computer is perched on a table and is in the perfect position for that input type. It's a different experience yes, but thats because the context is different.

Yes there are now crossovers, the fact that both ps3 & 360 hook up to your monitor and therefore could be next to your pc instead of in the living room, and yes it would be 'nice' if keyboard and mouse support was more widly offered to players, but we will have to just wait and see if developers use it.

For me it's not a deal breaker. I'm quite happy to snipe you with GRAW anytime with my control pad 🙂
 
I agree on the couch and relaxing comments, I even mentioned it in me rambles. 🙂

--- ---

I really don't care if anyone prefers a thumb-stick over a K+M -- that's not my point. Once again, "I only care that it has had an effect on the 'PC' games I like." And never did I state gamepad players were lesser players, I've only commented on their controls, which are in fact lesser when it comest to most PC derived games, FPSs being one of them. Well I did call them console Tards, but that also applies to me. 😱

Yes, people when given limited options will generally find a way to do something. For most peeps the thumb-stick has been their only experience with FPS games, so they really don't know any better, so of course they'll do fine with it, but fine doesn't cut it when developers are required to lessen a game's experience to accommodated this OK way of playing FPS games. It's not the guy that only knows the way of the thumb that's going to care, it's peeps like me that have grown accustom a certain level of play that will take notice.

Sniping is one thing, that's just squatting. Any monkey can sit in an area and wait -- it really doesn't require much movement, but this is still better executed on a dedicated pointer like a mouse. Throw that same peep into a small area where there's players coming from all angles and this is where the analogue stick falls short -- of course if every player is twiddling their thumbs, than that's an exception.

And the analogy of the baseball bat works, but then again it doesn't. It would only work if the aluminum bat were first, then came the wooden bat. The thumb-stick wasn't a step up from the k+m for any game that required a pointer, it was a step backwards. If I had moved from the keyboard for aiming, the thumb-stick approach would have been a great upgrade, but this was not the case. I used to play Wolfenstein 3D on my Gravis gamepad btw, that era of shooters were well suited for even digital pads.

To throw out my own analogy: I can draw with a mouse and I got quite good with it back in the early days, but since buying my first Wacom... Well I really don't need to go further, but needless to say I'm quite greatful that programs like Painter or Photoshop will never end up, nor become popular on a console. The level of gimping would be painful.

I've been thumb-twiddling as long as the rest. I've been playing FPS games on PCs since their inception, moving to the mouse was tough at first, but taking a huge step back to the thumb-stick after the k+M had been so well established, isn't a question of wether I or others can cope with this setup, it's just that it's inferior option for PC derived games. So the sooner thumb-sticks are no longer used as a "crutch" to play games that were honed around a dedicated pointer, the sooner I can look forward to games that are a challenge again, not dumbed-down games I can beat in one sitting.

I rant, I ramble, but hey I don't want "PC" developers to loose site of what really made "PC" games fun to play all of these years, only to be forced into the choice of how complicated they should build a game, because some of their end users might be aiming with their thumb. Bleh.

<]=)
 
I went from Prime 3 to Halo 3, I felt like I was moving through mud.
I need a good online multiplayer FPS for the Wii, with controls like Prime 3. So nice.
 
pcypert said:
I've seen people running and sniping people just fine with a gamepad...as good as any km combo. I'm not saying it's a perfect solution but to dismiss all gamepad players as "lesser" players is stupid at best. Some people prefer certain types of movements and others prefer playing another way.

I used a wooden bat in Little League while everyone else used super fancy alluminum bats with huge heads at the end that were space engineered. I hit more homers at the end of the season than anyone else...some people grew up with different and are perfectly capable with the limitations others can't cope with.

To me the km combo really sucks in certain situations and it's more of a liability for me than a help...but my hand fits an Xbox controller so well so maybe that's it (talking the big old one, not this tiny new one)...

FPS's can be played equally as well regardless of the setup with practice...games like RTS on the other hand are still WAY behind...

Paul
Click to expand...

K+M will always have an advantage over controllers.

Even on the highest setting it isn't possible to get the twitch that good PC gamers can get. PC gamers can near instantly turn around and fire while in midair before they land. On a PC you can also strafe, jump, change weapons and fire in half a second. Try that in halo.

And if a gamepad and K+M were equal you'd see more people using gamepads in professional-level tournaments.
 
Some games may support a keyboard and mouse (look online because it is a feature not published) - I actually have some Dreamcast games that support the DC Mouse and Keyboard that didn't say anything on the package.

You can also try before you buy - just get an older console used and some used games and see how you like them...
 
'Course keyboards are better. Anyone played Team Fortress 2 and ticked the "use controller" option? The interface changes and the buttons are mapped out like a standard 360 game (at least with my 360 controller). It's terrible. Slow, unresponsive and generally a pain to use.

Then you have games like Gears of War and Halo 3, they're more or less fine with a controller due to the slow nature of the game.

Way I see it there is no argument at all over the control methods (especially for FPS). K&M is clearly better, but it's also down to comfort whilst playing a game. Want to be sat in a computer chair playing or sat back on a sofa?
 
galganog said:
So I was thinking to myself that I may want to finally cave in and by a console but I tried to play some games on them, FPS games and found that I tottally suck with aiming with the control pad.

Are there a mouse and keyboard type control pad that i could by to give me the control of a pc game without having to revert to the stupid joystick?

Any links or name brands would be appreciated.
Click to expand...

Totally in the same boat; I'm as good with an analog stick as the next guy, but I'm 10x better with a mouse (I usually use sniper rifles like regular guns and am accurate enough on Q3-based games I've been banned for being accused of using auto-aim hacks).

The best control scheme I've ever seen on a console was Metroid Prime 3 on the Wii IMHO. Also, the PS3 lets you use a keyboard and mouse in some games, and will support PS3/PC online play in Unreal Tournament 2007 IIRC.
 
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