New VW Passat is bigger and cheaper

[JoeG4]

Yea the last one was ridiculous, and crazy overpriced for what it was -the 4cyl was quoted around $30,000 and didn't have automatic *anything*, the seats felt like park benches, and it didn't have any of the nice interior features the 6cyl that cost 35+ did.

It had cool trunk hinges and tail lights, though. And that 2.0T is a neat engine (I'm sad they are launching the 2011 with a 2.5.. wtf?!)

 

[Lord Blackadder]

Yea the last one was ridiculous, and crazy overpriced for what it was -the 4cyl was quoted around $30,000 and didn't have automatic *anything*, the seats felt like park benches, and it didn't have any of the nice interior features the 6cyl that cost 35+ did.

It had cool trunk hinges and tail lights, though. And that 2.0T is a neat engine (I'm sad they are launching the 2011 with a 2.5.. wtf?!)

When you talk about the "4cyl" are you referring to the turbo? Because I think the 1.8/2.0 turbo is a good motor, not necessarily out of place on a $30k car.

I'd have to go back and look at the article again, but I'm sure the turbo will be available on the Passat, but the 2.5 will be the base engine. I think it's a good engine, if not great. It competes well enough with the base 4 cylinders in thr Japanese competition. Myself, if I were going for a Passat I'd opt for the diesel. I thought the 1.8 turbo was a great engine, especially in the Golf, and the 2.0 turbo carried on that tradition.

 

[R94N]

I like the new front end design on VW's cars.

 

[JoeG4]

The 2.0T engine is cool, since it effectively did about 230hp at the crank, very impressive for a 4cyl engine. It made the V6 look bad.

My qualm isn't the engine, it was the way they packaged it - and they DID fix this on the later runs (I think on the 2009 models you could get the I4s equipped every bit as well as the V6).

But in 2006, it led me to buying a 300C instead - and after hearing about stuff on vwvortex I really didn't feel bad about that decision. As for the 5cyl, it is competent but I don't see the point to it - people should be buying a TDI instead, and the 5cyl is a noisy odd engine. >>

 

[Lord Blackadder]

But in 2006, it led me to buying a 300C instead - and after hearing about stuff on vwvortex I really didn't feel bad about that decision. As for the 5cyl, it is competent but I don't see the point to it - people should be buying a TDI instead, and the 5cyl is a noisy odd engine. >>

I wonder how many people cross-shop the 300C and the Passat...two very different cars.

 

[Muscle Master]

I wonder how many people cross-shop the 300C and the Passat...two very different cars.

In tha quality department .. VW is Garbage!!! Chrysler has a better rating then they do.. I would have choose the 300C myself and the 2011's are nice

I won't knock the TDI though.. it's impressive but I don't like wrong wheel drive

 

[Lord Blackadder]

In tha quality department .. VW is Garbage!!! Chrysler has a better rating then they do.. I would have choose the 300C myself and the 2011's are nice

Hmm, garbage. A bit strong, maybe? Chrysler has made its fair share of substandard autos too. Most versions of the Neon apart from the early twincams were pretty awful. The Avenger, Stratus, Sebring? Not so much. The Nitro? eek. The 300C/Charger is not so great with the V6 IMO, but equipped with the Hemi (provided you can handle the horrific fuel economy) it does a fair impression of a musclecar. The Challenger is retro done well, but is a niche vehicle.

I would take the current Golf over any of Chrysler's smaller offerings.

I won't knock the TDI though.. it's impressive but I don't like wrong wheel drive

I used to be a RWD snob, but I'm over it now. FWD cars can be very fun to drive and in the right hands they can equal the performance of equivalent RWD vehicles. The quality of drivetrain and overal design of the car is more important than where the drive wheels are when you're talking compact cars.

 

[7thMac]

I agree that the new design is very bland. I think they know what they are doing. The car companies seem to believe that this type of design will sell the most cars in the U.S. The Hyundai Sonata is a slight break from this mold.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

I agree that the new design is very bland. I think they know what they are doing. The car companies seem to believe that this type of design will sell the most cars in the U.S. The Hyundai Sonata is a slight break from this mold.

I don't think the new Jetta and Passat are ugly, but the style is most definitely boring.

The new Sonata takes a few cues from the Mercedes Benz CLS. Some might all it a bit fussy but it is at least not boring.

 

[steve2112]

Hmm, garbage. A bit strong, maybe? Chrysler has made its fair share of substandard autos too. Most versions of the Neon apart from the early twincams were pretty awful. The Avenger, Stratus, Sebring? Not so much. The Nitro? eek. The 300C/Charger is not so great with the V6 IMO, but equipped with the Hemi (provided you can handle the horrific fuel economy) it does a fair impression of a musclecar. The Challenger is retro done well, but is a niche vehicle.

I would take the current Golf over any of Chrysler's smaller offerings.

VW has had some nasty problems, especially in the electronics dept. I believe they are getting better, though I haven't seen any recent news on it. Fiat seems to have been a blessing for Chrysler. Based on some stuff I have read, it's amazing they didn't go bankrupt earlier. Daimler and Cerebus really just let them wither. I heard one story about the Fiat people being shocked at how little money they had been allocated for interior design while under Cerebus. Fiat seems to have corrected this, as the redesigned interiors in the 300, 200, and others are greatly improved. They still have a long way to go, as the 200 is little more than a facelifted Sebring, but it is still an improvement. The new 3.6L Pentastar V6 is also a very nice engine. They have come a long way in a short time, but Chrysler still has a long way to go.

I agree that the new design is very bland. I think they know what they are doing. The car companies seem to believe that this type of design will sell the most cars in the U.S. The Hyundai Sonata is a slight break from this mold.

Of course bland sells in the mid-size market. The Accord and Camry are the largest selling cars in the US.

 

[MattA]

The Golf is going to remain the European version as far as I've heard. The Jetta is no longer the 'Golf with a trunk', but that's not necessarily a bad thing. It's getting it's own identity, even if it's a little dull for the time being. The new Passat basically looks like a larger Jetta.

I've had my Golf TDI for 10 years (bought new in 2/2001), and it's been a wonderful car for 215K miles. This last tank I got 47mpg. I would definitely buy another one.

 

[turtle777]

The 2012 Passat is good news. It will make the 2009/2010/2011 Passat's resale value drop.

Let the sheeple "upgrade" to the better, uhm, newer model.

-t

 

[Chip NoVaMac]

Think VW USA is missing the mark at what made VW a drivers car in the end.... this one looks cheap to me

 

[Abstract]

VW has always had conservative exterior designs, but this is a bit too much (or too little?).

 

[Lord Blackadder]

VW has had some nasty problems, especially in the electronics dept. I believe they are getting better, though I haven't seen any recent news on it. Fiat seems to have been a blessing for Chrysler.

Two points:

1. I agree about the electrics, to an extent. Years ago, my old man bought an '88 Jetta, and it had two main problems - the electrical systems were horrible, and the body was not properly galvanized. It rusted before our eyes (hole in the floor after just 5 years) and most of the major electrical subsystems needed replacement within 5 years. However, it's worth noting that the Mexican-built VWs and the German-made VWs are quite different in quality. I may be wrong, but I believe that US-market GTIs are still made in Germany, and are the most reliable of the bunch. Several other VW-owning friends of mine have experienced a couple electrical gremlins here or there, but in terms of quality I'd still put VW's cars over the American Big Three for the most part. The interiors especially were superior.

2. Funny that you point out FIAT as a bringer of quality to Chryselr...Chrysler must be pretty bad if that's the case, as FIAT has a reputation for making sensationally unrealiable cars. I'll concede that they have improved dramatically in the last ten years, but you know what I mean. For me, the best thing about FIAT's new relationship with Chrysler will be the arrival of FIATs in the USA and access to FIAT's small car (particularly diesel - fingers crossed) technology.

Of course bland sells in the mid-size market. The Accord and Camry are the largest selling cars in the US.

I consider myself a bit of an automotive enthusaist, and I distinguish between autos that are intended to be appliances(Camry/Accord/Corolla/Minivans/basic Pickups etc etc) versus autos that are intended to be driven by enthusiasts.

The Jetta was always kind of borderline between the two categories, but the VR6 and turbo models were definitely budget enthusiast cars. The same could be said about the Passat as a luxury car. With the new versions, I think they are decidely more "appliance" and less "driver's car".

Think VW USA is missing the mark at what made VW a drivers car in the end.... this one looks cheap to me

VW's core customer base is yuppies and budget driving enthusiasts (with a smattering of tuners thrown in for good measure). Most of those people will probably not like the new version as much as the old. But, to be fair, VW's stated goal is to sell this new Passat to new people, to expand the customer base. So that necessarily involved some dumbing-down. We'll see if the gamble pays off.

 

[codymac]

Volkswagen should bring the Polo to the US.

A diesel Polo would be great for my commute. I'd be all over that.

 

[snberk103]

I wanted to be bad, I would point out that VW seems to be betting a lot money that what Americans want in a car is bigger and cheaper (in both senses of the word)...

But that might be considered baiting an easy target....

 

[Lord Blackadder]

But that might be considered baiting an easy target....

Not at all - it's a well-established truism that Americans prefer sedans over hatchbacks and wagons, they prefer large, torquey engines (usually V6 or V8), and they prefer lots of car for cheap as opposed to a smaller, higher-quality car.

Though cars are being kept longer these days than in the past, Americans tend to dispose of their cars at a greater rate than, say, in Europe. So it makes sense that cheaper build quality is more viable when the car is not expected to last forever.

 

[iJohnHenry]

A diesel Polo would be great for my commute. I'd be all over that.

That's why you can't have it.

Millions would feel the same, and "we" can't have that, now can we?

 

[Chip NoVaMac]

Not at all - it's a well-established truism that Americans prefer sedans over hatchbacks and wagons, they prefer large, torquey engines (usually V6 or V8), and they prefer lots of car for cheap as opposed to a smaller, higher-quality car.

Though cars are being kept longer these days than in the past, Americans tend to dispose of their cars at a greater rate than, say, in Europe. So it makes sense that cheaper build quality is more viable when the car is not expected to last forever.

Will be interesting to see if VW survives the Americanization of their car line. One of the tings I saw last year was that they are going to make their new cars feel more like what Americans are used to driving. And that is a shame - since one of the few joys I had with my POC '99 New Beetle was how fun it was to drive. So much for fahrvergnügen - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fahrvergnügen

 

[Lord Blackadder]

One of the tings I saw last year was that they are going to make their new cars feel more like what Americans are used to driving.

Go test drive a Camry/Malibu/Accord to find out what that feels like.

And that is a shame - since one of the few joys I had with my POC '99 New Beetle was how fun it was to drive. So much for fahrvergnügen - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fahrvergnügen

I have to admit I always thought the Fahrvergnügen thing was a bit silly, but it did position the VWs as "different", something the new Jetta and Passat are emphatically not. They are intentionally more the same.

 

[steve2112]

Two points:

1. I agree about the electrics, to an extent. Years ago, my old man bought an '88 Jetta, and it had two main problems - the electrical systems were horrible, and the body was not properly galvanized. It rusted before our eyes (hole in the floor after just 5 years) and most of the major electrical subsystems needed replacement within 5 years. However, it's worth noting that the Mexican-built VWs and the German-made VWs are quite different in quality. I may be wrong, but I believe that US-market GTIs are still made in Germany, and are the most reliable of the bunch. Several other VW-owning friends of mine have experienced a couple electrical gremlins here or there, but in terms of quality I'd still put VW's cars over the American Big Three for the most part. The interiors especially were superior.

2. Funny that you point out FIAT as a bringer of quality to Chryselr...Chrysler must be pretty bad if that's the case, as FIAT has a reputation for making sensationally unrealiable cars. I'll concede that they have improved dramatically in the last ten years, but you know what I mean. For me, the best thing about FIAT's new relationship with Chrysler will be the arrival of FIATs in the USA and access to FIAT's small car (particularly diesel - fingers crossed) technology.



I consider myself a bit of an automotive enthusaist, and I distinguish between autos that are intended to be appliances(Camry/Accord/Corolla/Minivans/basic Pickups etc etc) versus autos that are intended to be driven by enthusiasts.

The Jetta was always kind of borderline between the two categories, but the VR6 and turbo models were definitely budget enthusiast cars. The same could be said about the Passat as a luxury car. With the new versions, I think they are decidely more "appliance" and less "driver's car".

I had a coworker a couple of years ago who had a Jetta with similar problems. She cursed it every day. There does seem to be a big difference think you are correct about the GTI. I think all the recent problems have shocked the American brands into action, but I wonder if it will stick. Ford has especially been on a roll. They finally wised up and decided to bring their European models to the US.

As for Fiat/Chrysler: I realize Fiat has had issues in the past (Fix It Again, Tony!) but they have improved. The 500 did win European car of the year a couple of years ago, after all. I think more than anything, they have given an influx of cash and permission to upgrade products. Like I said, under Daimler and Cerebus, they were ignored and neglected. The new V6 and current redesigns were already in the works, but Fiat just gave some money to speed up things. They seem to be headed in the right direction, but then again, Chrysler has the most up and down history in the business. Fiat CEO Sergio Marchionne seems to be a good car exec and seems to be making good decisions.

I'm an enthusiast as well. I've had 3 straight Mazdas because they have been reliable, affordable, but still fun to drive. The first gen Mazda 6 is probably the most fun I have had driving a FWD car. Sadly, like VW, they seem to have lost their way chasing the mainstream. The second gen 6 got much bigger and heavier, and seems to have lost its sporting nature. And I can no longer get it with a V6 and manual transmission. I may have bought my last Mazda.

 

[Chip NoVaMac]

Go test drive a Camry/Malibu/Accord to find out what that feels like.

If it is anything like my Subaru Baja... then I already know LOL

I have to admit I always thought the Fahrvergnügen thing was a bit silly, but it did position the VWs as "different", something the new Jetta and Passat are emphatically not. They are intentionally more the same.

Never understood that ad campaign - till my ex and I bought our VW's. Me the New Beetle and him the Cabrio just months apart. That was a very happy salesman that day! LOL

In the end it was just how fun the Cabrio was fun to drive that made me jump to the New Beetle. Reliability was the reason I dumped my New Beetle... made in Mexico. While the ex's Cabrio was made in Germany with no major problems. Go figure....

 

[Lord Blackadder]

If it is anything like my Subaru Baja... then I already know LOL

I have a Subaru myself, and while their interiors are pretty average at best, they are mechanically very reliable in my experience. Not as boring as a Camry either, though (apart from the turbo models) they aren't "performance" cars either, but more like SUV substitutes.

In the end it was just how fun the Cabrio was fun to drive that made me jump to the New Beetle. Reliability was the reason I dumped my New Beetle... made in Mexico. While the ex's Cabrio was made in Germany with no major problems. Go figure....

There is plenty of anecdotal evidence I've come accross indicating that the German-made VWs hold up quite a bit better than the Mexican-sourced models. I don't have any "official" info on whether that is true though.

I suppose reliability is one thing that might improve in the new models.

 

[takao]

in the german breakdown statistics from the ADAC the Fiat Panda is the second most reliable small car only being beaten by the toyota aygo by a fraction of a percent
comparing the breakdown statistics the Panda (and the toyota) is trouncing the competition from luxury or middle class brands all the way

i somehow suspect this passat is just a counter to the us tastes of camry etc. just like that rebadged minivan or that hideous pick up truck.. but hey the americans even bought the older jettas ... which had such a bad reputation in germany that they had to rename it ... twice