new wireless standards and current iBooks

ironMonkey

macrumors member
Original poster
Jul 9, 2005
39
0
so when the IEEE rolls out 802.11n, am i going to be able to install a new chip in my iBook which will allow it to fully use the new speed? Because that would be nice. A PC laptop would allow me to just slap in a new wireless card. Do Apple laptops allow you to upgrade this chip?
thanks.
 

grapes911

Moderator emeritus
Jul 28, 2003
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You most likely won't be able to put in the new standard (whenever it comes out). A PC laptop with internal wireless will not let you put in a new card either. The only way for a laptop to upgrade it to use pcmcia cards or usb adapters.
 

ITASOR

macrumors 601
Mar 20, 2005
4,398
3
See I don't get this either. If they left the airport design alone with the card under the keyboard like the 1.2Ghz iBooks and all previous had, this would be no problem, just design the new card to fit there too. But NO! Let's make it built in to the mobo!
 

Applespider

macrumors G4
To be honest, this isn't going to be an issue for a while since most hotspots still run at 802.11b to make them compatible for those folks without g cards.
There are so many b/g cards out there that they're not going to convert all those hotspots overnight. There will be a relatively long changeover period.

And if you should still be using your iBook when it's n only, then there will probably be external USB 'n' cards/dongles just as there are currently for b/g-less computers.
 

Mitthrawnuruodo

Moderator emeritus
Mar 10, 2004
13,817
186
Bergen, Norway
It's not that big a deal.

Remember Apple changed the design from the AirPort cards to the AirPort Extreme cards, too, so you cannot "upgrade" from 802.11b to 802.11g by just changing cards even if both were on user changeable cards.

I will also guess that most 802.11n routers support some sort of backwards compatibility with b and g. The widespread use of these to standards are just too large to ignore.

So you should be fine for YEARS with the AirPort Express module in the new iBooks. ;)
 

TheMonarch

macrumors 65816
May 6, 2005
1,467
1
Bay Area
I don't get why Apple does this either. Why not make all AP card connect through an internal usb connection or something (If this sounds dumb, you should know that you keyboard and trackpad, and I think bluetooth are all connected through an internal usb in your Apple laptop) so you can modify it using standard interfaces. Thereby saving a whole new motherboard design...

:confused:
 

ironMonkey

macrumors member
Original poster
Jul 9, 2005
39
0
unfortunately i assumed this was the case.
i just happened to be looking into buying a Belkin pre-n router and the site says it supports network speeds of much higher than 54Mbitps. i was hoping that my new computer wouldn't bottle neck me from enjoying all that speed. and then when the n comes out...
oh well.
 

Applespider

macrumors G4
ironMonkey said:
unfortunately i assumed this was the case.
i just happened to be looking into buying a Belkin pre-n router and the site says it supports network speeds of much higher than 54Mbitps.
Incidentally, if it's just a couple of clients on a router and primarily communicating with the web, you don't need 54Mbps. Your outgoing connection is going to be a fraction of that. And unless you're constantly transferring massive files between computers, you're really not going to notice any difference in speed. It's one of those flashy stats that don't mean very much in real life to the average consumer.
 

ITASOR

macrumors 601
Mar 20, 2005
4,398
3
Applespider said:
To be honest, this isn't going to be an issue for a while since most hotspots still run at 802.11b to make them compatible for those folks without g cards.
G networks will allow B cards on with no problems.
 

grapes911

Moderator emeritus
Jul 28, 2003
6,994
3
Citizens Bank Park
ironMonkey said:
unfortunately i assumed this was the case.
i just happened to be looking into buying a Belkin pre-n router and the site says it supports network speeds of much higher than 54Mbitps. i was hoping that my new computer wouldn't bottle neck me from enjoying all that speed. and then when the n comes out...
oh well.
I highly advise you to stay away from pre-n. There is no guarantee that your pre-n router will work with the N standard with it is announced. Manufactures usually try to give firmware updates to make everything compatible, but they don't always do so because they don't care or it's not possible. You could be stuck with a useless piece of crap.

Plus it's only local network speed. If you really transfer that much on your local network, you may what to use plug in a wire. I use my wireless all the time, but I have an extra cat-5 cable on my router incase I want to transfer a lot of data to/from my laptop.
 

tdhurst

macrumors 601
Dec 27, 2003
4,258
340
Phoenix, AZ
Uh...

ITASOR said:
See I don't get this either. If they left the airport design alone with the card under the keyboard like the 1.2Ghz iBooks and all previous had, this would be no problem, just design the new card to fit there too. But NO! Let's make it built in to the mobo!
Since when was the airport card hardwired in? Did they completely revamp the internal hardware of the iBooks?
 

ITASOR

macrumors 601
Mar 20, 2005
4,398
3
grapes911 said:
But the network is as slow as its weakest link. It is a waste of money to upgrade to G when many of your users are going to slow down your network.
Well, it really makes no sense for a hotspot to be more than B right now because the internet connection is less than 11mps. No clients on the network need to or should be creating computer-->computer transfers which would take advantage of the 54mps.
 

FireArse

macrumors 6502a
Oct 29, 2004
893
102
Bottlenecks

I use various wireless setups at work and home - and make sure that when I am using Wireless - its for low bandwidth applications like HTTP and email.

When I want to transfer large files, I simple plug in the ethernet cable at my desk to the same wireless Router I have setup at home and enjoy 1Gb ethernet!

Some people enjoy the idea of wireless and use it to its capacity - but i start seeing errors and worry about the quality of the data despite the error correction algorithms (sp??)

I use wireless as a bonus to be honest - not my main connection for my laptop :)

As for pre-n routers - i will stay away till the industry has standardised it. Until I see large manufacturers like Apple, Intel or 3Com bring out domestic products I'll stay away and use 802.11g

FireArse
 

mkrishnan

Moderator emeritus
Jan 9, 2004
29,776
12
Grand Rapids, MI, USA
blaskillet4 said:
I don't get why Apple does this either.
I think the cost-save drivers in manufacturing to integrate it on the motherboard trump the inconvenience... I think there's a reason why Intel integrated wireless spread so well too....
 

greatdevourer

macrumors 68000
Aug 5, 2005
1,996
0
Mitthrawnuruodo said:
It's not that big a deal.

Remember Apple changed the design from the AirPort cards to the AirPort Extreme cards, too, so you cannot "upgrade" from 802.11b to 802.11g by just changing cards even if both were on user changeable cards.

I will also guess that most 802.11n routers support some sort of backwards compatibility with b and g. The widespread use of these to standards are just too large to ignore.

So you should be fine for YEARS with the AirPort Express module in the new iBooks. ;)
Exactly. Anyway, it might be a 540n chip, but it'd still go at 54g speeds, due to the speed of the APE bus. Remember, it only goes at the speed of the slowest

grapes911 said:
But does that actually mean hardwired to the MoBo? It could just as easily means "comes with it"

grapes911 said:
But the network is as slow as its weakest link. It is a waste of money to upgrade to G when many of your users are going to slow down your network.
That's not how a wireless network works. It's not a ring, but a star network, so on a 108Mbps network, 1 user would get his 54, 4 would get 11 and 1 would get 10, or summat like that.
 

zeeko

macrumors member
Jul 15, 2005
44
0
I'm going to have to say NO it isn't hardwired in as i looked at the powerbook section and it says " Built-in AirPort Extreme and Bluetooth 2.0+EDR
Built into every configuration of the new PowerBook G4 family is fast AirPort Extreme technology. Based on the 802.11g standard," so there you go.
 

Mitthrawnuruodo

Moderator emeritus
Mar 10, 2004
13,817
186
Bergen, Norway
greatdevourer said:
That's not how a wireless network works. It's not a ring, but a star network, so on a 108Mbps network, 1 user would get his 54, 4 would get 11 and 1 would get 10, or summat like that.
Not entirely accurate when i comes to 802.11g and 802.11b compatibility. If only a single b-device connects to a g-basestation that basestation will scale down all it's connections to b-speed... :(
 

Mitthrawnuruodo

Moderator emeritus
Mar 10, 2004
13,817
186
Bergen, Norway
zeeko said:
I'm going to have to say NO it isn't hardwired in as i looked at the powerbook section and it says " Built-in AirPort Extreme and Bluetooth 2.0+EDR
Built into every configuration of the new PowerBook G4 family is fast AirPort Extreme technology. Based on the 802.11g standard," so there you go.
The new iBooks have hardwired AirPort Extreme, not the current PowerBooks. But I guess the next rev of PowerBooks will use the same modules the new iBooks are using...
 

grapes911

Moderator emeritus
Jul 28, 2003
6,994
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Citizens Bank Park
punkbass25 said:
yeah but just cause it comes built in doesnt mean its hardwired in... last time i popped off an ibook keyboard the airport card was just sitting there with a little clip over it.... don't know if thats changed tho (as it was a 1st rev, of the current generation)
Built-in means Built-in. Airport ready means it has a slot for a card.
 

grapes911

Moderator emeritus
Jul 28, 2003
6,994
3
Citizens Bank Park
greatdevourer said:
That's not how a wireless network works. It's not a ring, but a star network, so on a 108Mbps network, 1 user would get his 54, 4 would get 11 and 1 would get 10, or summat like that.
Where did you get this info? That's not how is works at all. The whole network slows down to 11 is just one B device is on it.
 

mkrishnan

Moderator emeritus
Jan 9, 2004
29,776
12
Grand Rapids, MI, USA
grapes911 said:
Where did you get this info? That's not how is works at all. The whole network slows down to 11 is just one B device is on it.
I think he's talking about network speed when multiple clients are connected to the same wireless device using the same protocol level, not b/g shared networks.
 
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