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James_C

macrumors 68030
Original poster
Sep 13, 2002
2,836
1,875
Bristol, UK
I joined this forum in 2002 so have been here a long while. On the whole the Macrumors team do a great job of posting relevant news articles, which I read on a daily basis.

I do understand that Apple has expanded its interests over time and it is important for the news articles to reflect what is going on around the products and services that Apple offers.

While I understand that some news articles may not interest everyone, and the team should rightly cater for different tastes I am not sure that articles like Mariah Carey Interviewed on 'The Oprah Conversation' for Apple TV+ really count as 'news' on a tech rumour site.

I notice that a number of negative comments suggesting that this was not really suitable for a news article where removed by moderators, including a comment that I had made. It felt like the moderators were trying to delete comments to hide the fact that a number of people did not view these types of articles news worthy.

It was pointed out to me that this was the correct place to give some feedback.

If I really wanted to know which celebrity was being interviewed I would read my wife's copy of 'Hello' magazine not a tech rumour website. Please can we keep the news articles relevant.
 

I7guy

macrumors Nehalem
Nov 30, 2013
34,453
24,263
Gotta be in it to win it
Agree 100%. Plenty of people voiced similar concerns about the news-worthiness of Apple Pay Promo Offers Free Drink With Purchase From Jimmy John's too, and all those comments were deleted by moderators.

IMO, if the editorial staff decides to post content like this, they shouldn't be silencing feedback about it.
The staff here seems to welcome all feedback and feedback never seems to be silenced. The feedback however, has to be given in the right forum and this is the forum. This type of feedback in the main news thread (would probably always be) is off-topic.

There may be readers who are interested in this type of celebrity interest articles as it relates to Apple. If an article doesn't interest you (the generic "you") based on the title, skip over it.

The opinion of those who don't want to see these types of articles shouldn't outweigh the opinions of those who are interested in these types of articles.
 

WildCowboy

Administrator/Editor
Staff member
Jan 20, 2005
18,432
2,907
Certainly appreciate the feedback. As accurately noted, as Apple has expanded the areas in which it's involved, we have followed. Any given person is unlikely to be interested in every single article we publish, and that's not a new phenomenon...I remember Mac fans grumbling about iPod (and later but more significantly iPhone) coverage.

Apple's expansion into content such as with Apple TV+ has generated a similar response, so that's a balance we're continuing to seek.
 

inket

macrumors regular
Dec 23, 2009
151
102
The feedback however, has to be given in the right forum and this is the forum. This type of feedback in the main news thread (would probably always be) is off-topic.
Sure, that's the rule, almost word-by-word. But at a certain point, you'd have to wonder how many readers would bother to go to the meta forum and create a post. The amount of feedback that is erased from the main news thread is definitely way higher than the amount of feedback that the site would get here.

At a company I worked at, we were getting too many support tickets so the "solution" they chose was to make it harder to create support tickets by hiding the links.

If an article doesn't interest you (the generic "you") based on the title, skip over it.
That's a cop-out. The point of the feedback here is so that the editorial team gets an idea about what content the readers aren't interested in. If the response is "just skip over it" with nothing being done about it despite the objections of many readers, those readers will soon be skipping 90% of the front page, if they even manage to remain on the website.

---

Anyway, since the feedback reached the proper team, my job here is done.
 
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I7guy

macrumors Nehalem
Nov 30, 2013
34,453
24,263
Gotta be in it to win it
Sure, that's the rule, almost word-by-word. But at a certain point, you'd have to wonder how many readers would bother to go to the meta forum and create a post. The amount of feedback that is erased from the main news thread is definitely way higher than the amount of feedback that the site would get here.

At a company I worked at, we were getting too many support tickets so the "solution" they chose was to make it harder to create support tickets by hiding the links.


That's a cop-out. The point of the feedback here is so that the editorial team gets an idea about what content the readers aren't interested in. If the response is "just skip over it" with nothing being done about it despite the objections of many readers, those readers will soon be skipping 90% of the front page, if they even manage to remain on the website.

---

Anyway, since the feedback reached the proper team, my job here is done.
Two posters left opinions on the types of articles being reported on in the main thread. That really doesn't say how many MR readers like those type of posts. It's entirely probable there is a constituency that outnumbers those that like those articles compared to those that don't.

I don't think suggesting to skip over news articles that don't interest one is a cop-out as one can take that to the nth degree in any forum, newspaper, etc, and be left with nothing to read. (yes, I know the point is exaggerated)

And as you posted, this is the right place for this type of feedback. We're all discussing our opinions.
 
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maflynn

macrumors Haswell
May 3, 2009
73,682
43,718
That's a cop-out.
Back in the day when printed newspapers and magazines were a thing people tended to skip articles that didn't interest them. The advice being offered is the same

Similarly we don't expect every member to participate in every forum here, there are news stories, threads and forums here that won't interest you and the simple solution is to skip over what doesn't interest you

When MacRumors started, Apple was a computer company, they are so much more. MacRumors also evolved and covers stories that are no longer Macintosh related
 

James_C

macrumors 68030
Original poster
Sep 13, 2002
2,836
1,875
Bristol, UK
Thank you all for your replies.

A couple of people have used a newspaper analogy to the news articles. I agree that people can just skip on a newspaper however, you can see the big picture on a page and focus on the articles that attract your interest. However this is not a newspaper, but a webpage and you can't see all the articles at once. I am sure you don't need me to tell you that often people don't keep scrolling down a page to find an article that interests them. They are more likely to flick to another website.

The point that I am making is if you have too many irrelevant articles then you may start to lose core users. All I am suggesting is I don't really want to see MacRumors turn into a EGP (Electronic Programme Guide). Mentioning new shows is perhaps ok, but going into episode specifics unless directly relevant to Apple, in my opinion should be restricted to a sub forum for Apple TV.

I do understand this is my opinion and I hope the feedback is useful. Keep up the good work guys and girls!
 
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rumorguy

macrumors member
Dec 26, 2009
74
80
maria carey is on apple music, her mention on apple news was a plug. apple is a business.
 

roland.g

macrumors 604
Apr 11, 2005
7,424
3,175
I have pointed out that the main page should be reserved for hardware and software and relevant news a d industry (Android etc type news) and that MR could put a section on Apple TV+ content on the right between Guides and Upcoming or above Guides. Just like there used to be a Page 2, that would be an excellent way to showcase Content related news without putting it in the main news feed, especially for those that allow notifications.

Deaf ears. They were not interested in that suggestion. I personally think Content articles which are quite frequent should be separate. I think many of us feel that way.
 

DipDog3

macrumors 65816
Sep 20, 2002
1,191
812
Thank you all for your replies.

A couple of people have used a newspaper analogy to the news articles. I agree that people can just skip on a newspaper however, you can see the big picture on a page and focus on the articles that attract your interest. However this is not a newspaper, but a webpage and you can't see all the articles at once. I am sure you don't need me to tell you that often people don't keep scrolling down a page to find an article that interests them. They are more likely to flick to another website.

The point that I am making is if you have too many irrelevant articles then you may start to lose core users.

Thank you for your comment. You are completely correct. I used to visit MacRumors on a daily basis, but the content has become less and less relevant over the years, and anytime I voiced my opinion about it, my thoughtful comments were deleted.

The articles on pillows finally did it in for me, and I rarely visit the site anymore.
 

tobefirst ⚽️

macrumors 601
Jan 24, 2005
4,612
2,335
St. Louis, MO
In hindsight, I think the consolidation of what used to be "Page 2" into the main feed (or just how it was implemented) was a misstep.

I can appreciate wanting to give more eyes to the articles that used to be in Page 2 (which I believe was the reason for the consolidation, if I recall correctly), but what seems to have happened is that even more stuff that would have been Page 2 is now being posted, and that stuff has nowhere to go but the main feed.

The review of novelty pillows, as @DipDog3 mentions, receives the same prominence as an article about the release of the new iPhone.

If this were a newspaper, for instance, every article is front page, above the fold news.
 

tobefirst ⚽️

macrumors 601
Jan 24, 2005
4,612
2,335
St. Louis, MO
Back in the day when printed newspapers and magazines were a thing people tended to skip articles that didn't interest them. The advice being offered is the same
True, buuuuut...

Newspapers have sections. If you don't care anything about sports, for instance, you can just pitch that whole section. MacRumors is a newspaper without sections, everything is all lumped in together, and it makes it harder to find news that one is interested in and easily dismiss news that one is not. Imagine if there weren't separate forums for each interest and being told to just skip over what you aren't interested in. Yikes!
 
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macintoshmac

Suspended
May 13, 2010
6,089
6,992
I'd like to know if people are satisfied with the quality of this piece (and such pieces): https://www.macrumors.com/2021/06/11/macos-monterey-animated-memoji/

When you read about the features mentioned in the article, do any questions pop into your mind? If so, what are they? And, does the article seem to help you with answers to those questions?


For me, the first question that always comes to my mind is does this work on my device? I have two ways to know about it. Either the article can tell me about supported devices, or I can check that feature on my device. But, how do I check when I do not know the location of the feature?

Do we see where this is going?


Here is a screen grab from a user with a question, that I feel could ideally have been answered in the article itself:

Screenshot 2021-06-11 at 11.59.31 PM.png



I understand that people might be under pressure to dole out content within some timeframes, but I feel such articles are not rounded nearly enough for any meaningful interaction with them save for the buzz of it. I am talking of such articles, not all articles. There are a lot of articles on MR that provide all necessary information right there - devices supported, how to check the feature out, etc. and the writers and team are not spoken of when the job is so well done. I am at fault too, I haven't done that. A couple of members sometimes do, and I feel proud of them for that.
 
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macintoshmac

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May 13, 2010
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I'd like to know if people are satisfied with the quality of this piece (and such pieces): https://www.macrumors.com/2021/06/11/macos-monterey-animated-memoji/

When you read about the features mentioned in the article, do any questions pop into your mind? If so, what are they? And, does the article seem to help you with answers to those questions?


For me, the first question that always comes to my mind is does this work on my device? I have two ways to know about it. Either the article can tell me about supported devices, or I can check that feature on my device. But, how do I check when I do not know the location of the feature?

Do we see where this is going?


Here is a screen grab from a user with a question, that I feel could ideally have been answered in the article itself:

View attachment 1791421


I understand that people might be under pressure to dole out content within some timeframes, but I feel such articles are not rounded nearly enough for any meaningful interaction with them save for the buzz of it. I am talking of such articles, not all articles. There are a lot of articles on MR that provide all necessary information right there - devices supported, how to check the feature out, etc. and the writers and team are not spoken of when the job is so well done. I am at fault too, I haven't done that. A couple of members sometimes do, and I feel proud of them for that.

@Weaselboy you had deleted my post in the thread mentioned in the quote, rather immediately at that, citing rules of engagement and had directed me to the Site and Forum Feedback as the appropriate place for discussing issues. I agree. This is the place for it. The very day I posted in the appropriate place. But, do I have any response from anyone about it? The answer is no.

So, pray tell, is this how this works? How does one get some feedback back and forth with the team without getting posts deleted, without waiting 11 days for any response from anyone concerned with the matter?

11 days without a response from anyone suggests that either my post was not read or my post was not considered worthy of response. If it was not read, I hope now you see why people (me included) tend to talk in the actually relevant threads rather than the designated threads. At least that gets attention, even if for removal. My remarks did not need 11 days for a response from the MR team when placed in the concerned thread rather than here.

I do not even know what to think or say if my post was not considered worthy of response.
 

WildCowboy

Administrator/Editor
Staff member
Jan 20, 2005
18,432
2,907
The simplest answer is that we try to include details like you suggest when we have them, but they aren't always available.
 
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chown33

Moderator
Staff member
Aug 9, 2009
10,830
8,594
A sea of green
I'd like to know if people are satisfied with the quality of this piece (and such pieces): https://www.macrumors.com/2021/06/11/macos-monterey-animated-memoji/

When you read about the features mentioned in the article, do any questions pop into your mind? If so, what are they? And, does the article seem to help you with answers to those questions?
The first sentence of the article you mentioned contains several links.
The first link in that sentence leads to the following overview:
There's also a Related Roundup link below the article body at the link you provided. So I guess I should call that page a Roundup instead of an overview.


Since the title of the article you asked about begins "macOS Monterey Tidbits: ...", I would not conclude that it was in any way comprehensive. Rather, I would expect it to focus on the elements named after the word "Tidbits", such as animated memoji, mouse pointer color, etc.

If I go to the Roundup, the right-hand side has a table of Contents. One of the listed items is "Compatibility". When I click it, I see a list of what Macs it runs on. I assume this is what you were looking for.

Could "Compatibility" be listed as item #1 instead of #14 in the ToC? Maybe so. You could have linked to the Roundup and mentioned that you'd like "Compatibility" moved higher in the list.


On the question of asking about why a post may have been deleted:

If you received a Reminder or Warning in a Private Conversation, as distinct from a simple Notification/Alert, then you should have seen the following in the body of the Private Conversation:
For further information and instructions, see the Reminders section of the Moderation FAQ. Do not reply to (or report) a moderation message like this one. If you have questions, comments, or complaints about moderation, use the Contact Form.
As far as I know, every Reminder, Warning, Suspension, Ban etc. contains either this exact wording, or something very similar to it.

In particular, note the last sentence:
If you have questions, comments, or complaints about moderation, use the Contact Form.
Since you seem to have questions or complaints about the moderation, the Contact Form is the designated way to contact the site's admins.

On the other hand, if you were making an editorial comment about the quality or content of an article, then this forum is the proper place to discuss things. Moderators may not see posts in this forum in a timely way, or even feel the need to comment. It's up to each moderator, and may depend on their available free time.

For myself, for example, if someone expresses dissatisfaction with editorial content, I rarely comment on such threads here in Site & Forum Feedback. On the other hand, if someone asks a question about moderation here, such as how to question or complain about moderation, or asks about how to do something like delete their account or delete some posts, then I will typically answer.
 
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nicho

macrumors 601
Feb 15, 2008
4,225
3,215
I joined this forum in 2002 so have been here a long while. On the whole the Macrumors team do a great job of posting relevant news articles, which I read on a daily basis.

I do understand that Apple has expanded its interests over time and it is important for the news articles to reflect what is going on around the products and services that Apple offers.

While I understand that some news articles may not interest everyone, and the team should rightly cater for different tastes I am not sure that articles like Mariah Carey Interviewed on 'The Oprah Conversation' for Apple TV+ really count as 'news' on a tech rumour site.

I notice that a number of negative comments suggesting that this was not really suitable for a news article where removed by moderators, including a comment that I had made. It felt like the moderators were trying to delete comments to hide the fact that a number of people did not view these types of articles news worthy.

It was pointed out to me that this was the correct place to give some feedback.

If I really wanted to know which celebrity was being interviewed I would read my wife's copy of 'Hello' magazine not a tech rumour website. Please can we keep the news articles relevant.

Same applies to today's tenuously-linked 'news' (political statement) about the London Mayor announcing that mobile coverage will be in place across the London Underground network in 3 years' time.

London Underground to Gain Full Mobile Phone Coverage by 2024

Yes, Apple has 50% market share (in a small island nation of 65 million...) but is something so non-specific really newsworthy? Why no love for Blackpool Transport introducing contactless ticketing a few months back - it is compatible with the UK implementation of Apple Pay after all.


Or the city of Shenzhen in China (a far bigger market for Apple than the UK...) having full 5G coverage. That's at least of direct relevance to new features in the most recent iPhone release.



It kinda feels like someone is just pumping out articles for the sake of it.
 

macintoshmac

Suspended
May 13, 2010
6,089
6,992
The first sentence of the article you mentioned contains several links.
The first link in that sentence leads to the following overview:
There's also a Related Roundup link below the article body at the link you provided. So I guess I should call that page a Roundup instead of an overview.


Since the title of the article you asked about begins "macOS Monterey Tidbits: ...", I would not conclude that it was in any way comprehensive. Rather, I would expect it to focus on the elements named after the word "Tidbits", such as animated memoji, mouse pointer color, etc.

If I go to the Roundup, the right-hand side has a table of Contents. One of the listed items is "Compatibility". When I click it, I see a list of what Macs it runs on. I assume this is what you were looking for.

Could "Compatibility" be listed as item #1 instead of #14 in the ToC? Maybe so. You could have linked to the Roundup and mentioned that you'd like "Compatibility" moved higher in the list.


On the question of asking about why a post may have been deleted:

If you received a Reminder or Warning in a Private Conversation, as distinct from a simple Notification/Alert, then you should have seen the following in the body of the Private Conversation:

As far as I know, every Reminder, Warning, Suspension, Ban etc. contains either this exact wording, or something very similar to it.

In particular, note the last sentence:

Since you seem to have questions or complaints about the moderation, the Contact Form is the designated way to contact the site's admins.

On the other hand, if you were making an editorial comment about the quality or content of an article, then this forum is the proper place to discuss things. Moderators may not see posts in this forum in a timely way, or even feel the need to comment. It's up to each moderator, and may depend on their available free time.

For myself, for example, if someone expresses dissatisfaction with editorial content, I rarely comment on such threads here in Site & Forum Feedback. On the other hand, if someone asks a question about moderation here, such as how to question or complain about moderation, or asks about how to do something like delete their account or delete some posts, then I will typically answer.

Thank you for that elaborate clarification. I understand your approach towards the content published and how I could voice my thoughts better when it comes to things like that. Thank you!

It occurs to me that discussion about content and articles put up on the site is like dropping feedback in a suggestion box in terms of response or resolution. :D
 
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