Next Generation iPhone Battery Only Marginally Higher Capacity

[AdonisSMU]

If you are in the USA, it doesn't make sense to buy a new generation iPhone without LTE. Everything else is just a software upgrade.

 

[dv8r]

um... righto...

Our own tests when testing our apps came in very similar. So dunno what you have done to screw up your phone... I know that I've always have battery sap issues from the Skype app on the iPhone. But unless you manage your apps carefully on the S3 you can half that easily.

Genuinely I don't have a problem at all. You might have a Dud - Sell millions something is going to be wrong with a percentage?

I know you only ever hear about people complaining about battery life, but psychologically people only moan, post or whatever when there is something wrong. You aren't going to see many post from people that are happy as they are busy, well, being happy. I know I am the first to complain if there is an issue!

I manage some apps - like Skype because it will suck your phone dry in no time. But again, a smartphone should be able to be used as such. It annoys me that I have to think about turning features on and off all the time to get my 4S through the day. A die shrink will solve some of that, and the S3 certainly has a edge on that point.

We currently have an iPhone only strategy at work, and the 4S is the worst performer in battery capacity. Roughly 50% uses iPhone 4 and the performance is better on those. I have tried swapping with newer 4S phones as they came in to see if it was any different but it isn't much.

Sure some people moan - but looking at these forums it seems a good portion also have learned the Apple-team song.

----------

If you are in the USA, it doesn't make sense to buy a new generation iPhone without LTE. Everything else is just a software upgrade.

...and knowing Apple... if you are outside the USA, LTE won't work...

 

[SteveyAppleSeed]

Camera

I was most concerned with:

1) battery life
2) cameras and optics. I'd like to see the 1.9 mp FFC in the SGS3 and a 28mm f/2 for the rear camera (currently f/2.4). If they hadn't made the body so thin, they would've been able to pull it off. I think the optics are the same as the 4S

I'd get the SGS3 if it wasn't crippled by that GPU; I wanted to see the S4 Pro with Adreno 320 or Exynos 5. And its camera is worse than the 4S in low light.

No manufacturer ever really nails it. There's always something to gripe about.

But shame on Apple if battery life isn't at least 20 hrs with moderate use. This would be evidence that Apple marketing was given more consideration (e.g. "thickness of phone") than engineering (more juice). We'll see.

 

[wizard]

The battery isn't the problem.

It is the power usage that the battery has to support that is the issue. At this point we simply don't have enough info to know what that power usage will be like. There is however enough info out there that we can hope for vastly improved performance based on reduced power draw from a number of new components. This is huge, if Apple cuts power usage in half and installs this larger battery then most likely we would see twice the lifetime.

As for those competitors they aren't doing it on the same generation of hardware as seen in iPhone 4S. Even with today's generation of hardware I really don't see significant advantage from other manufactures.

The battery is a very big concern of mine....If the phone doesn't last me an entire day comfortably, what's the damn point? Competitors are doing it....I don't care if the iPhone is a few mm thinner if it dies on me before I head home from work.

Yeah everybody say competitors are doing it yet we never see references to similar hardware actually doing all that well up against an iPhone.

In any event I just wanted to point out that it is a bit ignorant to look at a battery and say that won't do. Yes it is a common refrain in this thread but that doesn't make it a valid concern. A battery can only be evaluated in the context of where and how it operates, anything else is BS. So taking this to heart, wait for the new iPhone to arrive to see what sort of technology is supported in the device. It isn't a stretch to imagine real improvements in battery lifetimes.

 

[wizard]

No cell phone is going to run Skype all day long.

I manage some apps - like Skype because it will suck your phone dry in no time. But again, a smartphone should be able to be used as such.

No it shouldn't be used as such. Skype is an app, many of which can suck a battery dry in no time at all. Building a smart phone that can run any arbitrary app all day long is technically impossible at this point in time and likely will be for sometime. Your expectations here are a fantasy and likely will be for a few more years.

It annoys me that I have to think about turning features on and off all the time to get my 4S through the day. A die shrink will solve some of that, and the S3 certainly has a edge on that point.

Actually a die shrink wont help much at all. If you turn features off that usually means turning a radio of some sort off. Unless the new radios are designed to radiate less power, much of you batteries energy goes to pushing photons into the air.

A die shrink of the A5 will help with apps that are bound to the SoC of course but few features that you can shut off dramatically impacts power usage there.

We currently have an iPhone only strategy at work, and the 4S is the worst performer in battery capacity. Roughly 50% uses iPhone 4 and the performance is better on those. I have tried swapping with newer 4S phones as they came in to see if it was any different but it isn't much.

Why would you expect better performance out of a newer 4S coming into your office? The performance of one 4S shouldn't vary dramatically from one variant to another.

Sure some people moan - but looking at these forums it seems a good portion also have learned the Apple-team song.

Nope! I'd rather think that we are a little smarter than many here that try to compare the old iPhone 4S to hardware just released. I also liked to think that we are smart enough to realize that you can't rationally look at a battery and say it won't do without know what it will be operating in.

----------

...and knowing Apple... if you are outside the USA, LTE won't work...

Who really gives a damn what happens outside the USA? Most of Europe is right on the verge of a major depression, which if it happens will impact Apple significantly. As to LTE working in more places, consider this every generation of LTE chip supports more "standards", so the so called world phones become more and more possible.

 

[Volvosonic]

Just a thought. What if they come up with a revolutionary new Palm/HP Touchstone device?

Why would the back be made out of 2 different materials other than for charging purposes?

 

[wizard]

Get a grip buddy.

well, thats the deal breaker. Was on board for the longer screen and smaller parts only if there was a huge battery inside. Will evaluate other options now.

First you dont even no for sure if this is an iPhone 5 battery. Second the size of the battery isn't important, it is run time that is important.

Since you have no idea how run time is impacted your position here is without merit.

 

[ConCat]

Wow, this thread is like bizarro-land.

More efficient SoC, IGZO screens that Sharp's saying could reduce consumption by 90%, a new generation of 4G chips that don't draw any more power than their 3G counterparts, and on top of all that, a bigger battery?!

Also consider that all of the iPhones have had best-in-class battery life, blowing away most other smartphones, so it's not like they're starting from a position of weakness.

Bravo Apple.

Exactly. I think people underestimate the power drain most displays are. It's a large part of the reason standby time is ridiculously longer than use time. If they're using IGZO, I firmly believe we may either see similar battery life, or greater. I do expect lower standby time though, unless the phone operates in 3G-only mode when in standby. Wouldn't be a bad idea tbh. It would actually mean longer standby time.

On the other hand, if apple is using those more efficient LTE chips, then there really is nothing to worry about at all. We'll just have to wait and see. I think this article is a little premature.

 

[Zunjine]

#MissingThePoint

Slimmer and lighter has absolutely nothing to do with being "more efficient." They're literally two different topics that are relatively unrelated.

You want more efficient? How about being able to efficiently manage power so that my phone can stay on for over a day? And I'd like more efficient speeds (like 4G LTE) without sacrificing battery life. I know that's a lot to ask (it's not), but don't tell me that a thinner phone is better than either of those. I fail to see a purpose for having a thinner phone at all, quite frankly. Apple opted out of 4G LTE for the 4S and that battery life still sucks, so I fail to see where the worthwhile tradeoff took place. Not to mention the Droid RAZR Maxx absolutely pummeling the 4S in terms of battery life and thinness. If they figured out a way to do it, and Apple procures only a marginally better battery this time around, people have a right to be upset. If you think Apple has revolutionized the 4G LTE chipsets, you're just wrong. It's still a battery hog, and that tiny battery being forced to power an even bigger Retina Display to boot has the potential to be disastrous.

And if you think that quad core processors have nothing to do with battery saving, then you literally don't know what you're talking about. While the results vary and experts agree and disagree on the implementation of quad core chips and their ability to save battery, the results aren't minimal at all. Quad core processors are more efficient, and can deliver an overall better experience when the OS is optimized to utilize them properly. So when you're playing Angry Birds or whatever fun games people play nowadays, your phone works even LESS than it did, saving you more battery. If you want efficiency, you should laud speed improvements that can slice load times in half.

I've got plenty of friends, and I'll still run benchmarks on a phone, donk. It's called following up on company claims and ensuring that what I've paid for is worth the price I'm paying for it. If the performance sucks, then why the hell would I buy the phone when there are viable options out there with better battery life, bigger screens, faster processors and yes, thinner bodies? Those same "losers" who run those scores actually protect you and plenty of other blind, ill-informed, zombie-like consumers from getting duped out of your money. You should be thanking them, not bashing them.

I do work on my phone all day, and I'm constantly on the move, so why wouldn't I want better battery life? Because let me tell you, sending off lots of emails and writing articles throughout the day with the screen on constantly kills the battery. And it's frustrating having to carry around a connector just in case the phone dies. Who wants to do that?

The company DID design a phone with terrible battery life, and it's the 4S. And plenty of other phones do it too, but to think Apple is exempt from the rule is stupid.

I wonder if Missing the Point was the title of your post - you couldn't have done a much better job. Let's see...

1) slimmer and lighter are about efficiency. If you can design a phone that is very efficient you don't need to put a massive battery in the phone and thus you can have a slimmer, lighter phone.

2) your second paragraph is a bit of a jumble so I'm afraid I'm not even sure what point you're trying to make. Try again.

3) my points about the importance of quad core batteries were in reference to the relative importance of such items on smartphones. I don't know why you're getting so upset about it.

4) Sense of humour failure. I guess I should expect that from someone who goes on about benchmarking

5) when have I said you shouldn't want a better battery life? I'm not even sure you know whether you're coming or going with this diatribe.

6) my 4S holds up fine. What can I tell ya.

Summary:

C - must try harder.

 

[petsounds]

apple's attitude is, "who cares, millions will buy it anyways. our loyal fans got suckered with the 4s. they will buy anything from us."

Huh? I'm quite satisfied with the 4s and didn't feel 'suckered' when I purchased it. Not sure what you're talking about.

 

[wizard]

Bizarro land is right!

There has been so much technical ignorance displayed in this tread that you have to wonder if everybody in this thread was educated in a public school in Mississippi. Seriously guys the battery by itself says nothing about battery life.

Wow, this thread is like bizarro-land.

More efficient SoC, IGZO screens that Sharp's saying could reduce consumption by 90%,

I don't believe the 90% figure myself but let's say for arguement it is 50%. That power used to drive the screen comes mostly from the backlight a serious power draw issue on all iOS devices. Just a 50% cut in power usage here can impact battery life significantly. Like wise the move to 22/28nm for he SoC could impact battery life significantly. I say could because Apple could burn up that power savings in extra performance.

a new generation of 4G chips that don't draw any more power than their 3G counterparts, and on top of all that, a bigger battery?!

Doesn't make sense does it. Almost every single component in the next iPhone could actually be saving energy over their older counterparts. How much is unknown of course but for people to automatically assume the worst is just so stupid.

Also consider that all of the iPhones have had best-in-class battery life, blowing away most other smartphones, so it's not like they're starting from a position of weakness.

Bravo Apple.

Exactly. More so the design of the iPhone 4S is a year old now and covers a year where the industry is or has transitioned to smaller nodes for just about everything in an iPhone or have implemented other power saving techniques.

People need to wait and see what is coming!

 

[Boxcar Edit]

Note to Apple designers: it's thin enough. If you can make the phone guts any thinner, then make the battery bigger to keep it the same overall size of the 4S. I have heard no complaints that any of the iPhones are too thick -- ever, really.

Agreed!! Apple, we'd like a phone that rarely needs charging. Thin's nice but they're already thin enough without being something you would even more easily lose or crunch.

I've been using a different, non-iPhone with a larger capacity, aftermarket battery (and a slightly modified back that accommodates it). I love being able to go many days without thinking about charging my phone. It also gives me plenty of hours of use once I notice the charge status getting low.

Apple: More battery life, please. Low battery life has been one of my hesitation points about making the iPhone switch.

 

[krigsmakten]

And how does that Treo 650 compare to a modern iPhone in terms of CPU, Graphics, Screen, Radios, and overall capability? That's like getting upset that your dad's Timex gets better battery life than a Garmin GPS watch.

Dude - always someone like you commenting - learn to read...

I wrote that the Treo is 10 years old - duh! - but it has better reception, and better battery life - and a user-replaceable battery. Should I add that it is also easy to move files to and from the phone and a computer?

Apple has taken several steps forward with their R&D - but they have also reduced functionality.

Would you buy a car with tires that are glued on? Sorry buddy, you need to buy a new car - those tires can't be replaced. Not an improvement.

 

[wizard]

Sorry to hear you feel this way!

Further I think it is totally irrational.

There are reasons why I love apple products: solid build quality, excellent battery life...etc

of which Apple is still the benchmark by which things like this are judged.

Ever since last year, I feel like these things are all falling apart

There is an old child's tale about the sky falling. It is very possible you learned nothing from that.

(lion screwing up mbp battery life, 4S with a horrible battery,

So there was a glitch with Lion and battery life. Maybe Apple can correct that maybe not but I will take the much better performance of Lion any day. As to the 4S there is nothing truly horrible about its battery life and frankly is outstanding when compared to similar hardware debuting at the same time.

thicker iPad that takes 8 hours to charge)

This comment is just stupid, I'm sorry I have to say that but facts are facts. IPad takes a long time to recharge off a USB port because it has a massive battery to five you extended run time while driving a high performance processor. The reality is USB can't supply the iPad with a huge amount of power so you get a slower charge to fill that high capacity battery.

Frankly you put Apple into a cant win situation here. If iPad had a smaller, quicker to recharge battery you would complain about battery lifetimes. As it is I like my iPads battery just the way it is thank you. It just so happens that I sleep 8 hours or so a day so a recharge that lasts me all day with LTE access isn't anything to complain about.

...etc

I hate to say this but you need to sit back and determine why you are all wound up about nothing. You seem to go out of your way to pull the negative out of what should otherwise be positives. I'm not sure if that is a lack of education or something else but you certainly dwell in darkness.

 

[Born Again]

Note to Apple designers: it's thin enough. If you can make the phone guts any thinner, then make the battery bigger to keep it the same overall size of the 4S. I have heard no complaints that any of the iPhones are too thick -- ever, really.

Thank u - nobody is asking for thin!

Make the battery bigger so we can then complain how heavy the iPhone now is!!!!!!

 

[wizard]

I agree 100%, Steve is gone unfortunately so we don't need such comments.

No kidding...stop saying Steve this and Steve that. The man is gone, obviously we know he may/would of done things differently. But for **** sakes let the man RIP. Glad to see theres a few people in here who still have positivity towards the phone. I mean hell, Apple hasn't even officially announced it.

So much of this thread is filled with complete ignorance. As you say, hasnt even been announced yet nor do we really know anything about the internal hardware.

Everyone relax and just wait one more month. And as always, if you don't like it when it is announced, go find another phone. Plenty of them out there.

Actually I don't think finding another cell phone would solve the issues many of the posters here have. Maybe finding a new mental health guide is what is really needed by some of these guys. A bit of a mind shrink to allow them to grasp reality and reduce the desire to jump to unwarranted conclusions.

 

[AlexJaye]

Do people realize that a revolutionary design is not possible every year, let alone very few years??

Design??! I'm talking software & features in comparison to Android phones I'm now looking at.

----------

Beyond that the whole point of iPhone and it's impression upon people is in the software. To that end you can't yet find better software running on a cell phone and iOS 6 just takes the lead farther away from the pack.

By the way I'm also an iPhone 4 owner and frankly don't feel the need to upgrade at the moment. If you look at iPhone as a tool, the need to upgrade only become compelling when the technology has advanced significantly to offer real advantages over the one you are currently using. If iPhone is in your possession to prop up your vanity then you have other issues to address. In all likely hood, if half the leaks are true, this coming iPhone will be ground breaking technology wise. If that doesn't impress you then just keep your current iPhone.

Lol. iOS isn't the best software anymore. Maybe for older people wanting a phone that dictates to them how it should be used and what features they need/don't need to keep things simple.

Android has massively surpassed iOS and that makes me pretty sad. I love my other Apple products but iPhone is now playing catch-up, and probably will continue to for a long time.

I think I'll be upgrading to an S3 instead of this "new" iPhone/iOS6.

 

[iRumored]

I wouldn't think that Apple is this stupid. Everything that comes through this site is rumor until proven factual.

I'm still on board with the notion that nobody truly knows what the new iPhone will contain. Personally, I don't care about processors and how big they are. The original iPhone 4 was nothing special as far as processor went compared to other phones but was way faster an way snappier than others.

I'm sure they realize bigger screen + LTE + bigger processor = way more battery drainage.

Maybe this is for the next generation iPod's? (I haven't done any homework, I don't even know the battery set up in the latest iPod, just a pure guess) Before the 4S came out, there was a lot "leaked" things that were thought to be going in to the new iPhone and they went in to the new iPod.

Who knows. It literally just might not be worth upgrading to.. In that case, cool. I'll save the 200-300 on a new upgrade/case/etc and keep my 4S. Which is plenty fast, plenty capable, and plenty modern.

I enjoy reading the submissions here at macrumors, but you always have to keep in mind.. These are RUMORS. Nobody really knows until they mention it at the conference.

 

[Geckotek]

Design??! I'm talking software & features in comparison to Android phones I'm now looking at.

What software and features? We are discussing an article about a battery. We don't know the full software and feature set just yet. And what we know is pretty good. What exactly does Android offer that is so revolutionary that it blows away iOS? I don't see anything but complaints from my friends, esp when they can't upgrade to the latest version of "insert stupid dessert name here".

Have fun with your S3.

I wouldn't think that Apple is this stupid. Everything that comes through this site is rumor until proven factual.

If this is true, what about it would make Apple stupid? You yourself are jumping to conclusions on the power needs of this device. You need to take your own advice re: rumors. The battery described here could be perfectly fine if Apple is able to find power efficiencies elsewhere (which is VERY probable).

 

[Karma*Police]

From my own POV it's thin enough, but I heard from people around me for several times that the iPhone is "thick" (when compared to larger Samsung devices). Samsung has done a very good job as flattening and expanding the phone's size to make the phone thinner.

But in the process, they've also made it less usable for some folks and less appealing for others. Not everyone wants a huge smartphone that is less portable and can't be operated by one hand. In fact, they look downright clumsy and awkward next to the diminutive and sleek iPhone. The user's needs defines their perspective, and Apple's job is to find the sweet spot between users like yourself and I. If the rumors are true, I think they did a great job of that with the next gen iPhone. It's possible that in the future, they may offer 2 or 3 screen sizes, but that has consequences as well for developers and the ecosystem which eventually hurts users.

I'd also mention that seeing a phone with a large screen in a store and using it daily are two very different experiences. This is coming from a former Android user who often cursed at his HTC when walking his dog.

 

[dv8r]

No it shouldn't be used as such. Skype is an app, many of which can suck a battery dry in no time at all. Building a smart phone that can run any arbitrary app all day long is technically impossible at this point in time and likely will be for sometime. Your expectations here are a fantasy and likely will be for a few more years.

You're going full retard - most of my smartphone usage is covered by the default apps. I mention Skype because it's an example of a badly designed app and that should not be the measure. I stick to my point - a smartphone should be able to run as such, something other phones manages without problems.

Actually a die shrink wont help much at all. If you turn features off that usually means turning a radio of some sort off. Unless the new radios are designed to radiate less power, much of you batteries energy goes to pushing photons into the air.

Or stopping apps, checking for mail less frequently, not using Siri etc.

A die shrink of the A5 will help with apps that are bound to the SoC of course but few features that you can shut off dramatically impacts power usage there.

Agree.

Why would you expect better performance out of a newer 4S coming into your office? The performance of one 4S shouldn't vary dramatically from one variant to another.

To see if this is a one (or two) off. But it does not vary - 4S have a crappy battery and that's it.

Nope! I'd rather think that we are a little smarter than many here that try to compare the old iPhone 4S to hardware just released. I also liked to think that we are smart enough to realize that you can't rationally look at a battery and say it won't do without know what it will be operating in.

The 9 months old iPhone model compared with the 4 months old S3 - yeah that's preposterous... so how about the Razr Maxx or is 3 months several generations in Your world?

And I didn't say that it won't do this and that... so there's that.

Who really gives a damn what happens outside the USA? Most of Europe is right on the verge of a major depression, which if it happens will impact Apple significantly. As to LTE working in more places, consider this every generation of LTE chip supports more "standards", so the so called world phones become more and more possible.

Yeah I know right - why bother.

 

[nuckinfutz]

I'm sure they realize bigger screen + LTE + bigger processor = way more battery drainage.

.

Unlike conjecture they actually have working prototypes. I have no idea why people here who are not electrical engineers suddenly think they know all about power consumption in embedded devices.

Whether the leaks are real or not will be revealed soon enough there is simply not enough evidence that can accurately support battery life claims at this point.

 

[nicwalmsley]

Used my girlfriend's 4 last night. Feels awful to hold in your hand. Form factor of the 3GS is perfect for me. I want weather sealing, longer battery, shock resistance.

Apple, don't drink the kool aid.

 

[strausd]

You think it will need/have room for that huge chip with massive GPU to support only a small increase in resolution? I guess there will be a die shrink which will save size and power but I wouldn't be surprised if it is not an A5X but something newer in the SoC department (A6? A5Z?).

If they do bring it down in size, they aren't going to change the name. But a twice as powerful GPU is not needed for a small increase in screen size, but when did technology ever stop at what was needed?

There is no way the new iPhone gets the A5X. It's too big, too tall and uses too much power, creating too much heat as a result. Underclocking is like limiting a V8 to 4k RPMs. It's still the wrong engine for the car.

The next iPhone will be a little taller, making for more room. Also, underclocking will bring down the power and heat.

Not sure why you don't think Apple will underclock it when they did the exact same thing to the A4 and the A5. Why change now? Apple is starting to become a predictable company in certain areas, this is one of them.

The phrase "underclocked A5X" is garbage. ARM processors have always had the ability to operate over a range of frequencies. Designers often select clock rates for different reasons but managing power usage is a common one. In the case of the iPhone the chip isn't under clocked it is rather running at the design frequency.

A4 on iPad: 1 GHz
A4 on iPhone 4: 800 MHz
A4 was underclocked on the iPhone 4 compared to the iPad.

A5 on iPad 2: 1 GHz
A5 on iPhone 4S: 800 MHz
A5 was underclocked on the iPhone 4S compared to the iPad 2.

A5X on iPad 2: 1 GHz
A5 on new iPhone: ?

It is only safe to assume that it will be underclocked. Have you not been paying attention to how Apple implements their CPUs the past few years?

You are grasping here, no body knows what the clock rate of the next iPhone will be.

Read above.

So tell me, why would anyone want 8 cores in an iPhone? An iPad maybe but how much of an advantage would that be in an iPhone? Not much really. I see Apple going in a different direction with its transistor budgets in the future. That includes even higher integration pulling more, even all of the IP in the iPhone, onto the SoC.

Oh ya, because nobody ever buys a computer with more cores than only what is *NEEDED*. Oh wait...

If history has taught us anything, it is that Apple will continue to upgrade their CPUs in their iPads and iPhones. Starting with the iPad, then using the same one, but underclocked, in the iPhone. They have not yet deviated from that pattern. Why stop now?

And back before the new iPad came out, people found strings in 5.1 referring to a quad-core A6. Note, I am talking about the CPU right now, not the GPU, so don't get confused like you just did.

When I was talking about possible 8 cores, that is for the GPU. And the reason that is not a ridiculous idea is because if you look at the Tegra 3, it is a quad-core CPU with a 12-core GPU. And when Apple bumps their CPU to quad-core, it would make sense for them to bump their GPU as well.

And by the way, when did people start getting so anal when they see someone offer speculation on a site dedicated for rumors?

 

[prezasti]

Unlike conjecture they actually have working prototypes. I have no idea why people here who are not electrical engineers suddenly think they know all about power consumption in embedded devices.

Whether the leaks are real or not will be revealed soon enough there is simply not enough evidence that can accurately support battery life claims at this point.

I agree with this. The Screen is already rumored to be thinner, so who is to say the new technology going into it doesn't drain less power and the LTE chip could be new technology that drains less power and the new processors may drain less power, etc. Each year Apple engineers have been able to slowly shrink components and get better power consumption out from designing and using new technology. Even the iOS software can be designed to run more efficiently to drain less power. So I think it is a little early to judge the new iPhone's power consumption, until we see the released phone.