Next Generation iPod (Video) Product?

[greenstork]

Re: Innovation means feature bloat?

Originally posted by splashman
Speaking of missing the point . . .

You're equating "innovation" with "feature bloat", a la MS. And you're equating "simplicity" with "sitting on their laurels." Jobs and Apple got it right with the iPod when they equated "innovation" with "simplicity". The iPod was meant to play music and allow easy access to a huge library, and it does that job wonderfully. (Yes, it has other features, but they're basically Easter eggs, not selling points.) With the exception of a few features such as voice recording, adding functionality that moves the iPod away from its core mission will doom it.

Dream on about a device that will do everything well. Personally, I'm hoping Apple will improve the iPod by:
- making it smaller and lighter
- increasing HD capacity
- increasing battery endurance
- adding codecs
- adding built-in voice recording

These are "innovations" that are compatible with its core purpose.

We're basically saying the same thing. You're assuming that I don't want all of the same innovations that you want. You're assuming I was some all in one loaded up device, which is an incorrect asumption I never said that.

If you read my edit to the post you quoted, I'm sure it will put things in context here.

Lastly, we're talking about Apple innovation, not Microsoft innovation. My experience to date with Apple products is that when they add features and innovate it usually creates a much cooler product. I wasn't aware that I need to qualify that I was looking at this issue through that lens.

edit: One other HUGE assumption that you are making is that I am advocating doing away with the current iPod as a simple audio device, which I am not. If a video pod came out, I see it as a separate device, albeit related.

 

[splashman]

Re: Innovation means feature bloat?

Originally posted by greenstork
We're basically saying the same thing. You're assuming that I don't want all of the same innovations that you want. You're assuming I was some all in one loaded up device, which is an incorrect asumption I never said that.

Correct, you never said that. In fact, you weren't very specific at all.

Given the original topic of this "rumor", and that the majority of the posts are advocating a "kitchen sink" approach to product design, I don't think my assumption was unreasonable.

However, now that you have qualified your assertion, it appears you and I are not in disagreement. Groovy.

 

[JoeRadar]

Re: Re: Re: Doesn't Really Mean Anything

Originally posted by idkew
Remember the 40GB iPod ALREADY costs $500. Adding all the hardware and new software may DOUBLE the price.
• Don't we already have an all-in-one deivce? It is called an iBook. Get one with all those features for around $1,000. Do everything you listed, plus, you can do MORE.

Remember, that $500 iPod configuration will cost about $250 next year. Apple will need something new on the high-end of the line.

I don't think simply growing the hard disk is the right solution. People are going to start having a lot of empty space on their iPods. Video will help sell it, and Apple's ownership of Quicktime will give them an advantage.

You are correct about the iBook as a souped up iPod. Today, an iPod AV with 12 inch screen costs $1100 (as you point out, it goes by the name iBook). [note: Dell's Inspiron 1100 has a 14" screen and DVD player for only $800] Bring the video screen down to 7" for portability, put in a cheaper CPU, less memory, and get rid of other unneccessary circuitry, and in about a year I think Apple could get the price down to $500-$600 -- in the same ball park as today's high-end iPod.

 

[JoeRadar]

Originally posted by greenstork
But I personally think that sitting on their laurels and going nowhere with the iPod is a poor business strategy.

I agree. I think the iPod is about to be commoditized. For example Creative has a very iPod-like music player with 50% more hard disk space than Apple's $399 model, and it cost 33% less. Dell has also entered the market with prices that are 1/3 or more less than Apple's.

I don't think there is going to be any profit margin left in a music-only iPod type device within a year's time. It is too easy to duplicate, and too many people are jumping into the market.

 

[FlamDrag]

Brainstorming...many kinks exist.

iPod as a digital wallet...
Add an RFID chip...

Before leaving home, drop your grocery list (and some tunes) onto your iPod. While at the grocery store, when you add items to your shopping cart, swipe them by your iPod and they're auto crossed off of your shopping list.

When checking out, choose your preferred credit card from the color screen, press OK, wave it over the card reader and voila! you just bought your groceries. Use it at the soda...er...Pepsi machine the same way.

Save coupons on your iPod as well, redeem them at the register before you pay. You might even pick up some coupons in-store as you shop. Maybe as you pass by items for which you have a coupon, a short sound is emitted by your iPod.

Same with the vending machine. Download some tunes and win a free soda. That coupon goes directly to the iPod and the next time you see a machine...ZAP the free soda is yours.

All while listening to your favorite tunes.

Just like a wallet, whip out your iPod and show your friends wallet sized images - but really short movies - of your kids. Instead of "here's little Billy in his baseball uniform" it's "here's little Billy hitting a home run."

Pictures on the exact size screen that the iPod currently posesses is not a problem for me. In on-the-road digital imaging application, what I'd like the iPod to do is simply PREVIEW the video or digital photo. Hell, if you can put in some sort of basic iMovie editing in there so that I can make BASIC edits (easily done with the current controls) I'd be happy. I'll even pay $50 for that program.

Honestly, none of that is going to happen for awhile, but I wish it would happen sooner.

 

[captain kirk]

Originally posted by JoeRadar
I agree. I think the iPod is about to be commoditized. For example Creative has a very iPod-like music player with 50% more hard disk space than Apple's $399 model, and it cost 33% less. Dell has also entered the market with prices that are 1/3 or more less than Apple's.

I don't think there is going to be any profit margin left in a music-only iPod type device within a year's time. It is too easy to duplicate, and too many people are jumping into the market.

This is not the point. At present if a student, colleague, kid at school shows off a new mp3 player that ISN'T an iPod then they have the mickey taken out of them all week. You cannot put a price on the 'cool' factor that the iPOd has and companies like creative can only dream of.
the point about being easy to duplicate is also nonsense as Apple has around 25 patents relating to ipod.

 

[MediaBaron]

DVD Recorder-Video Camera?

Maybe an iPod that plays back video isn't so far-fetched. Check-out this Panasonic DVD Recorder. It can record TV programs in MPEG-4 and even record them to SD or PC Cards. So if you had an iPod with a CF Card slot it could be used to data-bank digital photos from cameras, plus playback movies from the Panasonic recorder.

Another thought might be adding a camera to the iPod itself. 40GB is a lot of space to store video movies. The iPod would become a digital videocamera.

 

[Mac User Canada]

iPod with a Superdrive

All you really need is to stretch the iPod so that it can contain a Superdrive.

Now you have a device that can still hold a decent music library and transfer files.

A 40GB harddrive can only hold a few movies so why bother taking the time to download them to it. Simply pop your favourite DVD into the Superdrive and connect it to a display using RCA Composite or S-Video connectors or maybe even HD Component video via an external adapter. And of course let's not rule out some nifty wireless connection to the display.

This really wouldn't be that hard to do either.

Hmmm... an iPod that can burn files to DVDs. Not a bad idea.

And you never know, in a few years display technology may let Apple drop a video screen on its surface for not much extra cost.

Any thoughts??

MUC

 

[splashman]

Re: iPod with a Superdrive

Originally posted by Mac User Canada
All you really need is to stretch the iPod so that it can contain a Superdrive.

Now you have a device that can still hold a decent music library and transfer files.

A 40GB harddrive can only hold a few movies so why bother taking the time to download them to it. Simply pop your favourite DVD into the Superdrive and connect it to a display using RCA Composite or S-Video connectors or maybe even HD Component video via an external adapter. And of course let's not rule out some nifty wireless connection to the display.

This really wouldn't be that hard to do either.

Hmmm... an iPod that can burn files to DVDs. Not a bad idea.

And you never know, in a few years display technology may let Apple drop a video screen on its surface for not much extra cost.

Any thoughts??

MUC

Yes. "Uggghh."

 

[marchawk]

Future video device

I attended a screening at the Laemmle Sunset 5 in Los Angeles of a new movie shot on HD 24P. The entire movie was stored and shown from a 30 Gig Firewire mini hard drive using the Windows Media 9 codec. The movie looked as sharp as any 35mm print I have seen. The bottom line is we have reached point with technology that incredible things can be done and there is only a lack of imagination as to where we are going next. "Cold Mountain" was edited on FinalCut Pro and it can be delivered to a theatre on 30-40 Gig iPod. This is the future. WM9 is only a codec and it is possible that the theatres could get equivalent or better results from QT 6.5.
All they need is Apple to make an effort to show them why QT should be the standard. Microsoft is dedicating very few dollars to this effort and the market is wide open.

 

[RidgyDidge]

viPod

Think TiVo.

Download last night's recordings. Watch it today when you're sitting on the bus or metro.

RD

 

[Mac User Canada]

Re: Re: iPod with a Superdrive

Originally posted by splashman
Yes. "Uggghh."

Why Uggghh?

Such a product wouldn't displace the existing iPod with its small size and audio only capability.

Before the advent of MP3 players portable CD players were found in abundance. Many are still used today.

What's wrong with a portable DVD player?

MUC

 

[Sol]

Re: re: Video and Xfer speeds

Originally posted by jeffmc425
...for viewing, a normal iPod screen is just two small (And being a 2 color screen doesn't help). Most likely this would be a 320x240 landscape device, with a pretty good hosrepower RISC chip that does not suck alot of power while going full bore. You want to get 30FPS at at least 500Kbit rate so there is no artifacts, etc in the playback. (Also depends on the transcoding process on the host).

There should be no set frame-rate for movies that would be stored and played back on the vPod but any video sygnals that come out of it should conform to PAL and/or NTSC standards. For example, if the vPod is used for downloadable films I think the frame-rates of the files should be 24 fps and converted on the fly to 25 fps if I connect it to my television (I live in PAL Australia).

I would be more excited about the idea of an iPod that plays video if Apple were to release an application that does for DVDs what iTunes did for Audio CDs. No matter what the geeks say, ripping DVDs is not as easy as it should be yet.

 

[juancarloz]

iPod + iSight = QuickTake

It would be soooo cool if Apple made a Digital camera with a hard drive.
All they have to do is add a camera lens on the back side of the iPod a color screen on the front and wuala! an iCam.
iPod + iSight + PDA + Game + Cell Phone = iWalk

 

[idkew]

Re: iPod + iSight = QuickTake

Originally posted by juancarloz
It would be soooo cool if Apple made a Digital camera with a hard drive.
All they have to do is add a camera lens on the back side of the iPod a color screen on the front and wuala! an iCam.
iPod + iSight + PDA + Game + Cell Phone = iWalk

Why not add a kitchen sink? ATM? 4 Wheels and a Steering Wheel?

The iPod is where it is at b/c of its simplicity, as is Apple. Overcomplicated devices are not part of Apple mission.

Ever notice that Apple has not allowed the average user to use the FULL power of UNIX? There is a simple reason. SIMPLICITY. Apple does not want to burden every user with so many options that they can not make sense of them.

 

[idkew]

Re: Re: re: Video and Xfer speeds

Originally posted by Sol
I would be more excited about the idea of an iPod that plays video if Apple were to release an application that does for DVDs what iTunes did for Audio CDs. No matter what the geeks say, ripping DVDs is not as easy as it should be yet.

That would be cool. I could set it to shrink a dvd to maybe 500mb-1gb w/o special features. That way I could fly on a jet, and have access to all my dvds, not in the best of quality, but it would suffice, and since the HD could cache lage amounts at a time (i have a gig of ram...), battery life would improve dramatically.

I think the MPAA might have a problem with it though... but i doubt they could stop Apple, afaik it is legal.

 

[iLilana]

mentioned this b4

Originally posted by Toe
Oh yeah. A Mobile IP Video Phone. Now that would be killer.

Combine in a roving User Data storage device and an MP3 player and hopefully a PDA, and I dunno who wouldn't wanna buy that thingy.

And knowing Apple, they'll call it "iPod."

I sure would

 

[JoeRadar]

Originally posted by captain kirk
You cannot put a price on the 'cool' factor that the iPOd has and companies like creative can only dream of.

"Coolness" is a fleeting thing. From my perspective, I agree with your position on iPod's coolness right now, but I have been around too long and have seen too many leaders slip. If Apple stagnates with the iPod, it won't be the cool thing for long.

the point about being easy to duplicate is also nonsense as Apple has around 25 patents relating to ipod.

You better tell Creative, Samsung, RCA, Philips, Dell, Toshiba, Rio, Archos, and others about the patents, as they all have disk-based jukeboxes that pretty much do the same thing as the iPod. The music player business is getting very crowded.

I still think Apple's iPod has a comfortable lead, but devices like the NOMAD Jukebox Zen Xtra are getting closer.

By the way, if anyone wants to look at a iPod-like device with video capability, check out the Archos AV300. I don't like the form factor, but they are trying to push the envelope.

 

[juancarloz]

Re: Re: iPod + iSight = QuickTake

Originally posted by idkew
Why not add a kitchen sink? ATM? 4 Wheels and a Steering Wheel?

The iPod is where it is at b/c of its simplicity, as is Apple. Overcomplicated devices are not part of Apple mission.

Ever notice that Apple has not allowed the average user to use the FULL power of UNIX? There is a simple reason. SIMPLICITY. Apple does not want to burden every user with so many options that they can not make sense of them.

Whell the iPod right now is an
MP3 Player
Portable Drive
PDA of a sort Calendar, Contacs
Games

Apple wants to add video Hmmmmm
you will need a color screen Hmmmmm
How about a camera lens an you have Apples QuickTake

So maybe they won't add an iPhone

as for UNIX it is BSD
Have you seen this site?
http://www.macosxhints.com/

 

[idkew]

Re: Re: Re: iPod + iSight = QuickTake

Originally posted by juancarloz
Whell the iPod right now is an
MP3 Player
Portable Drive
PDA of a sort Calendar, Contacs
Games

Apple wants to add video Hmmmmm
you will need a color screen Hmmmmm
How about a camera lens an you have Apples QuickTake

So maybe they won't add an iPhone

as for UNIX it is BSD
Have you seen this site?
http://www.macosxhints.com/

i think we are looking at this differently. out of the box, changing no prefs, the ipod only plays audio.

you CAN add on functionality, which I am not against. I am against it being built in, by default. The games are useless in my view, the calendar is also. I use the drive space, but only as a 3rd backup, as I do not carry my cord with me. who does?

if apple (or a thrid party) wanted to make the ability to dock a large screen with a hardware decoder and such to the ipod, i would see no problem. i just don't want frivilous crap getting in the way of the ipods number one task; to play music. same goes for anything else. the iTrip is a great example of this idea.

besides, a lense would have to be quite large to get any quality from it. this is one reason camera phones suck. it takes a lot of glass to capture light in a quality way. if someone made a digicam that docked an ipod as its media, cool, just don't build it in.

and yes, i know OS X is BSD UNIX. I don't see your point? Gettting a hint from that site means it is not built in (aka a button in a pref file). you must open terminal and change stuff. something the average joe does not do.

 

[juancarloz]

Re: Re: Re: Re: iPod + iSight = QuickTake

Originally posted by idkew
i think we are looking at this differently. out of the box, changing no prefs, the ipod only plays audio.

you CAN add on functionality, which I am not against. I am against it being built in, by default. The games are useless in my view, the calendar is also. I use the drive space, but only as a 3rd backup, as I do not carry my cord with me. who does?

if apple (or a thrid party) wanted to make the ability to dock a large screen with a hardware decoder and such to the ipod, i would see no problem. i just don't want frivilous crap getting in the way of the ipods number one task; to play music. same goes for anything else. the iTrip is a great example of this idea.

besides, a lense would have to be quite large to get any quality from it. this is one reason camera phones suck. it takes a lot of glass to capture light in a quality way. if someone made a digicam that docked an ipod as its media, cool, just don't build it in.

and yes, i know OS X is BSD UNIX. I don't see your point? Gettting a hint from that site means it is not built in (aka a button in a pref file). you must open terminal and change stuff. something the average joe does not do.

OK I agree on simplicity
there will be an iPod
and also an icam
and an iphone

 

[ITR 81]

Re: Re: Re: iPod with a Superdrive

Originally posted by Mac User Canada
Why Uggghh?

Such a product wouldn't displace the existing iPod with its small size and audio only capability.

Before the advent of MP3 players portable CD players were found in abundance. Many are still used today.

What's wrong with a portable DVD player?

MUC

I could see this too but the superdrive would have to be miniaturized and the DVD-R's would have to be 3inch variety.
This means the discs could only store about 3GB per disc. Also a ESP like shocking absorbing would also have to be added to keep the disc from skipping.

This basically what the Sony video MP3 player does. But it uses it's own special media discs.

More then likely the next iPods will have 50 or 60GB HD's and by end of the yr they will be nearing 80GB probably.

By 05' will probably see the iPod hit 100GB if not over that mark.
I simiply doubt by this time anyone would could fill a 100GB HD with just music.
This would be a good time to release a video iPod.

I have 40GB iPod now and I've only so far filled up 11GB's of it with music.

 

[iChan]

Originally posted by byamabe
I don't think download speed is the only barrier to an online movie store similar to iTMS (I would guess the RIAA counterpart in the TV/Film industry is pretty cold blooded), but doubling speeds isn't going to solve any problems.

DVD = 7~9 GB of data
Download today = 1.5 Mbps ~ 540 MB / hour
Download DVD ~ 13 hours for a 7GB DVD

If you want this store to work, better get downloads to around 30 minutes. So you need downloads speeds at least 26x faster.

I think if apple actually make this store, they should pre-compress these movies for us, s Divx nowadays is probably 95% as good as DVD in terms of quality...

my cousin, who is quite a videophile was really impressed with the video quality when he showed some compression he did... using Divx, you could get a movies down to about 1GB, 700MB maybe with further improvement to the codecs...

download today, 1.5Mbps, Download Movie, 1 hour for 1GB movie.

30 minutes if speed is doubled...

if you read my post again, which wasn't very long, I didn't say anything about downloading DVDs... that would be silly, you don't see many people downloading unconcompressed CD from the iTMS do you?...

the reason for us having DVDs in the first place is that when it comes to traditional consumer electronics, standards are needed, without standards, there will be loads of incompatible formats floating around...

anyway, in an iTMovieS situation, there is no reason whatsoever to stick with the DVD, what, with computers being the adaptable beasts they are...

 

[yuri_koval]

Next generation cell-phones ?

 

[Jacknusa]

I didn't wade through all the posts, so maybe this has been covered...

I think what really makes iPod work, is iTunes... so... any development leading up to a video iPod should also bring a new iApp. Someting perhaps like a software Tivo...

And this brings up another point, I don't think a video iPod really would be meant to watch "DVD movies", but think if, by simply docking your video iPod every evening to your "tvTunes" equipped Mac you would have Letterman, Leno, Conan, and that sucky forurth guy + the first two hours of the Today show, loaded and ready for your Morning commute.

To enjoy this type of programming you don't need full screen glory.

that's my 2cents

Jack