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Or you can invent a new way of doing things where the user doesn’t need to know where things are and doesn’t have to decide where to put them, but only has to know WHAT they want to open. This is part of the reason iOS is engineered largely so that apps keep track of their own files. You can hide the physical file system from the user and do things a different way. That’s what Apple has been working on all along in iOS.
If hiding the file system from the user was a good thing we wouldn't be talking about why a new Files app is giving users more powers/options.
 
If hiding the file system from the user was a good thing we wouldn't be talking about why a new Files app is giving users more powers/options.

If you follow the thread to the beginning, you’ll see the point I’m making is that just because norton had a files-like app 20years ago doesn’t mean we can’t do better now. And that you shouldn’t expect Apple to clone finder for iOS. As files.app evolves it will evolve into something different and hopefully better.
 
Here's the thing, if people want to "dump everything on the desktop or into one folder" than that's what people want to do. It's not through lack of understanding they want to do that.

No, they do that because they deem amount of effort to use tools to make organization better not worth it. Better tools help with that.

The hierarchical file system isn't that great a tool. It requires a lot of manual effort on the user's side for relatively little gain. Some stuff like tagging is promising, but we're still not quite there.

Unless of course you believe people are wrong and the file system is yet to be solved (coming next year youall).

No, people are right. The tools are bad. And some point (probably not next year), the tools will get better.
 
If you follow the thread to the beginning, you’ll see the point I’m making is that just because norton had a files-like app 20years ago doesn’t mean we can’t do better now. And that you shouldn’t expect Apple to clone finder for iOS. As files.app evolves it will evolve into something different and hopefully better.
Look, fair play to you I wish you no malice. I can understant your point of view that Apple can do better and they can. I still take issue from them starting so far back that hey you can only do good but c'est la vie
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No, they do that because they deem amount of effort to use tools to make organization better not worth it. Better tools help with that.

The hierarchical file system isn't that great a tool. It requires a lot of manual effort on the user's side for relatively little gain. Some stuff like tagging is promising, but we're still not quite there.



No, people are right. The tools are bad. And some point (probably not next year), the tools will get better.
Not for a second; people do what they want, thery're not looking for anything better. "Hi I'm mr X or Mrs/Miss Z I'm happy to store things in a folder that I then know I should back up"
 
Look, fair play to you I wish you no malice. I can understant your point of view that Apple can do better and they can. I still take issue from them starting so far back that hey you can only do good but c'est la vie
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Not for a second; people do what they want, thery're not looking for anything better. "Hi I'm mr X or Mrs/Miss Z I'm happy to store things in a folder that I then know I should back up"

The fact that iOS is so much more popular than macOS tells me they leaps forward, not that they started far back. People appreciate not having to think about where their files are. Files.app is a recent change to allow more flexibility and finally address the issue of how you can share information BETWEEN apps and create more complicated workflows. Those are the problems to be solved. A file browser is not a problem to be solved, it is merely an aspect of the solutions to those other problems. As a result I expect things like system-wide workflow.app-like support to be much more important than a “more powerful” files.app, and I think Apple thinks the same way.
 
The fact that iOS is so much more popular than macOS tells me they leaps forward, not that they started far back. People appreciate not having to think about where their files are. Files.app is a recent change to allow more flexibility and finally address the issue of how you can share information BETWEEN apps and create more complicated workflows. Those are the problems to be solved. A file browser is not a problem to be solved, it is merely an aspect of the solutions to those other problems. As a result I expect things like system-wide workflow.app-like support to be much more important than a “more powerful” files.app, and I think Apple thinks the same way.
Really?, you think people are picking a computing device because of the file system as opposed to "Oh I need a phone, guess what this phone also does a bunch of computing stuff I guess I don't need a computer after all"
 
Count me in.

I'm switching my whole family to Android phone and Windows PC this year. will not look back till the day the legendary intuitive and fun user interface comes back.

Seriously. I spent 2 hours on the phone with parents to support their shiny new iMac because they were not able to see the address bar in safari. It’s extremely hard to know that plain white area on top is address bar, or at least an area where user can interact with, unless user has previous experience. This would never happen before ugly flatty OS X 10.10

And to be honest, the latest windows 10 release on Apr 30 looks just beautiful with glass effects and eye pleasing 3D elements. I’m sure it’s less confusing and much more intuitive than flatty macOS for elders like my parents.


Well that’s a knee-jerk reaction. And a massive downgrade. Just because I miss a design aesthetic doesn’t mean I’m switching to an inferior, insecure, battery guzzling operating system. Let alone inflicting that on my loved ones.

The only thing keeping me from switching my parents to Mac is the price. Unless my dad wants to pay for it, of course.
 
Really?, you think people are picking a computing device because of the file system as opposed to "Oh I need a phone, guess what this phone also does a bunch of computing stuff I guess I don't need a computer after all"
No. I think they are picking a device, in part, because they don’t have to deal with the file system.
 
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Now that iPads are 256 and 512GB a proper finder like file management system should be implemented. It would elevate the iPad Pro's usefulness significantly.
 
Given that iOS 11 still runs on iPad mini 2, I doubt they'll stop supporting the mini 4 any time soon.
The iPad mini 2 has an A7 just like the iPhone 5s. iOS 11 is expected to be the final version for the 5s and iPad mini 2. That could possibly mean iOS 12 will be the last version for devices with the A8, which includes the iPhone 6 and iPad mini 4. An exception will probably be made for the less demanding needs of the HomePod.
 
The iPad mini 2 has an A7 just like the iPhone 5s. iOS 11 is expected to be the final version for the 5s and iPad mini 2. That could possibly mean iOS 12 will be the last version for devices with the A8, which includes the iPhone 6 and iPad mini 4. An exception will probably be made for the less demanding needs of the HomePod.

Right, but the mini 4 shipped with 9.0. It’d be unusual to cut off support so soon.
 
So around the same time Apple celebrates 20 years of iMac, another part of Apple is trying to make iPad destroy the need for Macs at all.
 
The biggest updates really need to come for iPad. It has been far too stagnant and underutilized for far too long. When iPad was announced 8 years ago I was certain there would be much larger/more robust changes in the iPad softtware by now... It's a shame we have to wait another year...

I agree. Why does it have to look and act like an iPhone?
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Can we please get multiple profile support? I shouldn’t have to buy an iPad for every person in my family.

Nope, I like to keep my iPad screen booger and unidentified-crusty-things free -- unlike my kid's ones, or greasy makeup slime -- unlike my wife's.
 
I agree with your first point of quality software and bug fixes should be a focus at the meeting but that should not be all. Another year has passed with a number of products being deleted from the Apple catalog. I want and need to know a little about where Apple is headed as a user and stockholder. I need to have something to look forward too. We've had to change several systems this year including our Wi-Fi network away from Apple. Our automation plans have had to be completely changed because of Apple's disinterest. I don't agree that Tim Cook should skip this year's WWDC. He needs to be there and hear the "hall noise" as I'm hearing the "hall noise". Apple seems to be "skimming" and not innovating and I want Tim to show me I'm wrong. I need something from this year's meeting both as a developer and user.

I agree with the want, but Cook is not going to provide it. He is clueless and will continue on the the platitudes.
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You seem to behind the news curve quite a bit. If we are to believe the reported internal statements from Craig Federighi that have been consistently reported over the past five months, what you are pining for is exactly Apple's plan for this year's release.

Also, a developer, you should be bowing to Tim Cook and Apple. Since they started the App store they are closing in on having put a $100 BILLION dollars in developer's pockets.

This I know, part of the point is that we have to listen to the meaningless platitudes from Cook. They have $100 billion because of their successful marketing to fashion oriented kids, not because its a great platform any more. It started out as both but has devolved into what it is today. Fashion is fickle, and once it turns, Apple is done for, based on their lack of focus and performance on anything that is not an iPhone.
 
So... the homescreen redesign that was going to breathe fresh life into iOS... is iPad only. Super.



I miss skeuomorphism.
Why? When iOS 6 was the newest, everyone was complaining that it looked too stupid, with the green Game Center, and the yellow legal pad for Notes, and the calendar. So they changed it, and now you want it back? Why not something new? Not what we have now, but don't go backwards 6 years.
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I think it’s a good thing that Apple is finally getting serious about all the bugs that plague iOS. It has really gotten bad since they gave Forstall the boot. At the same time, it’s somewhat embarrassing that a company with Apple’s immense wealth and resources can’t figure out how to walk and chew gum at the same time by also delivering new features.
This is not new for apple at all. Even when Steve jobs was there, there was bugs and problems. Mac OS X 10.0 was so buggy that 10.1 Puma was released for free 6 months later. And even that was not good enough for all users, so 10.2 was released 11 months after that. It took almost 18 months to make Mac OS X stable enough for 100% of Mac users. Mac OS X Leopard introduced a new, 3D, spacey design, and it wasn't horrible, but it wasn't as stable as it should have been, so 2 years later, Snow Leopard was released, with 0 new features. This all actually happened. The early 2008 MBP had so many graphics card fails that they had to start recalling them. Then Mac OS X Lion and Mountain Lion, same as before. And apple delaying things is not new either. The white iPhone 4 was supposed to be released on June 24, 2010, at the same time as the black one. It was actually released on April 28, 2011, 10.5 months after it was announced. And that was just a color. So PLEASE STOP WITH THE Tim Cook BASHING
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The biggest updates really need to come for iPad. It has been far too stagnant and underutilized for far too long. When iPad was announced 8 years ago I was certain there would be much larger/more robust changes in the iPad softtware by now... It's a shame we have to wait another year...
Completely agree. And why is there Pages, Numbers, Keynote, iMovie and Garage Band, but not Logic Pro, Final Cut Pro, Motion, Compresser, MainStage for iPad? These pro apps should really be available. It has been proven that the iPad can support it, so whats the hold up Apple? That A10X processer is really not being utilized correctly. It can do so much more, but its not.
 
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I agree with the want, but Cook is not going to provide it. He is clueless and will continue on the the platitudes.
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This I know, part of the point is that we have to listen to the meaningless platitudes from Cook. They have $100 billion because of their successful marketing to fashion oriented kids, not because its a great platform any more. It started out as both but has devolved into what it is today. Fashion is fickle, and once it turns, Apple is done for, based on their lack of focus and performance on anything that is not an iPhone.


"Lack of performance on anything that is not an iPhone?" Again, you must not follow Apple very closely. In nearly every market they enter they dominate. Services, for example. Apple is so successful that their services revenue alone dwarfs
I agree with the want, but Cook is not going to provide it. He is clueless and will continue on the the platitudes.
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This I know, part of the point is that we have to listen to the meaningless platitudes from Cook. They have $100 billion because of their successful marketing to fashion oriented kids, not because its a great platform any more. It started out as both but has devolved into what it is today. Fashion is fickle, and once it turns, Apple is done for, based on their lack of focus and performance on anything that is not an iPhone.


Again, you must not do much reading about Apple. Far from being just an iPhone success, in nearly every market they enter they dominate. Services, for example, has been exploding and now Apple's Services revenue alone is greater than all of Facebook's revenue combined. Then there are the other markets that Apple owns: number one in the world and owns almost the entire market for smart watches, number one in all in one computers, number one in the world in wireless headphone sales, number one in premium headphones, number one in tablets, number one in contactless payments, number two in music streaming, number one in music sales, by far the most regulary used digital assistant in the world, etc.

As Apple the most valuable company in the world, and the most profitable company in the history of the world, nears being the first TRILLION dollar company, your prediction of doom.
 
MORE Animoji? :eek: I think they are cute. But how many does Apple think we need? Are they really that popular?
Yes they are. Maybe not for people like you and me, but fore the average people, they love them. My mom has never used an iPhone, never wanted one, thought they were overpriced, etc. But when I showed her the iPhone X, she wanted one with in the first 30 seconds. For most people, its a huge celling feature, and one of her complaints while using my phone is "theres not enough." So yes, it is a huge thing
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Perhaps an iPad version...finally? (Along with Health, Weather, Phone, Calculator, etc...) Would be nice for the iPad to have the entire iOS suite of apps available to it.
Stocks is the first app I delete from every iOS device I get. It literally doesn't need to be on a consumer device. If my sisters, mother, grandmother, etc go get an iPhone, I don't think they are getting it to check stocks. Sure, there are some people who like it, somewhere, but it should not come built in. It is so forgotten, that the design of that app looks the same it did in iPhone OS 3.0, the last time they even mentioned it at a keynote.
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You lost me on "next year"
They can release an incomplete version this year, that runs worse than iOS 11, and is completely unstable, that just doesn't work correctly at all. Whats more important to you, reliability or a new iMessage icon. Come on now, the current home screen is fine for now. But I do agree that the iPad needs some major upgrades
 
Why? When iOS 6 was the newest, everyone was complaining that it looked too stupid, with the green Game Center, and the yellow legal pad for Notes, and the calendar. So they changed it, and now you want it back? Why not something new? Not what we have now, but don't go backwards 6 years.

I'm not everyone. I complained when 7 came. I even have Hipstamatic set to use it's original icon. Not because I particularly liked it, but because it harkens back to a simpler time.

Now, I will say that things like settings and back buttons and such, they're better now on 11. But Game Center? Notes? And especially iBooks? They all died with iOS 6.
 
… so 2 years later, Snow Leopard was released, with 0 new features.
Why do people keep claiming that? Snow Leopard had a couple of massive new features, like a 64 bit kernel, OpenCL, and Grand Central Dispatch. Just because these features weren't immediately visible to end users doesn't mean there weren't any.

And why is there Pages, Numbers, Keynote, iMovie and Garage Band, but not Logic Pro, Final Cut Pro, Motion, Compresser, MainStage for iPad?
Three things: interfaces, memory, mass storage. That's why.
 
I'm not everyone. I complained when 7 came. I even have Hipstamatic set to use it's original icon. Not because I particularly liked it, but because it harkens back to a simpler time.

Now, I will say that things like settings and back buttons and such, they're better now on 11. But Game Center? Notes? And especially iBooks? They all died with iOS 6.
So basically, you want it back, just because of nostalgia? Apple will not do that, sorry.
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Why do people keep claiming that? Snow Leopard had a couple of massive new features, like a 64 bit kernel, OpenCL, and Grand Central Dispatch. Just because these features weren't immediately visible to end users doesn't mean there weren't any.


Three things: interfaces, memory, mass storage. That's why.
Let me restate, Snow Leopard did not have any new user features. Users don't care about 64 bit support. I'm sorry, but thats just the truth. All those features were for speed and stability. If you put a computer running Leopard, and one running Snow Leopard in front of anyone, and ask them to tell you which is which, they wouldn't be able to tell you. Unless they went in to System Profiler, of course
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Why do people keep claiming that? Snow Leopard had a couple of massive new features, like a 64 bit kernel, OpenCL, and Grand Central Dispatch. Just because these features weren't immediately visible to end users doesn't mean there weren't any.


Three things: interfaces, memory, mass storage. That's why.
d if a 2009 white MacBook with a 9 year old processor can run all those apps, with only 4 gigs of ram, my iPad Pro 2017 should be able to run it.
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ios has got so boring
They all have. Android, macOS, iOS, tvOS... PCs and phones are so advanced, that theres not much more they can do. Faster processors, HD screens, better cameras... Thats all thats been done. Eventually, the only new things in phones will be a new processor. Just like how the recent Mac upgrades have been. People are waiting for a new MBP... where the only difference is a slightly faster processor and faster ram. Thats it. They won't "see" any difference in the way the computer works. I say again, put a 2016 MBP next to a 2017 MBP, and it will be quite the challenge to figure out one from another. Phones are trending the same way.
 
And if a 2009 white MacBook with a 9 year old processor can run all those apps, with only 4 gigs of ram, my iPad Pro 2017 should be able to run it.
Good luck trying to hook up your audio interfaces, MIDI instruments, jog shuttles, and multi-TB RAIDs to your iPad Pro.
 
I think that iOS 12 is going to be a transitional update, much like iOS 6 was. A smaller update, focusing on refining the current design, just so the people who wouldn't like iOS 7 would have a solid, stable OS to remain on. Then, iOS 7 has a completely new design. Its the same here I think. iOS 12 will perfect the design that has been used since iOS 7, and next year, we will get a major design overhaul. But I may be wrong.
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Good luck trying to hook up your audio interfaces, MIDI instruments, jog shuttles, and multi-TB RAIDs to your iPad Pro.
They could find a way, adapters maybe? IDK but you don't need any of that for Final Cut to work.
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I think that iOS 12 is going to be a transitional update, much like iOS 6 was. A smaller update, focusing on refining the current design, just so the people who wouldn't like iOS 7 would have a solid, stable OS to remain on. Then, iOS 7 has a completely new design. Its the same here I think. iOS 12 will perfect the design that has been used since iOS 7, and next year, we will get a major design overhaul. But I may be wrong.
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They could find a way, adapters maybe? IDK but you don't need any of that for Final Cut to work.
And the new 12 inch MacBook can run both, and it only has one port. The iPad can run it, apple just won't develop it for some reason.
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The best Apple software update was Snow Leopard (10.6) because there was little hype or new user-visible features. Instead, right out of the gate Apple said they would concentrate on optimization, bug fixes, and other under the hood improvements (new SW but not visible to user). And that is exactly what they did. It was SOLID!!!
Have not seen any Apple software release since then that wasn't mostly glitz, hype, half-baked new features, and Emoji engineering.
That being said, this does sound like the right sort of focus for the iPad. Fingers crossed....
Mountain Lion was meh, Maverick's was great. El Capitan as well. extremely stable.
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I am still convinced iOS has out lived it purpose. This was originally an OS made to compete against Nokia and Blackberries, it was not designed for tablets to replace desktops.

Its time to release the next big thing and to move on just like how Apple moved from OS 9 -> X and Windows 3.1 ->'95 . No amount of additional features plugged into this Frankenstein os is going to cut it.

that being said, as someone who has been following the tech industry for a long time, people are always waiting for the next big thing. I learned to enjoy whatever is available.
I was actually hoping apple would completely restart with iOS 10, because Mac OS 9 and Mac OS X were completely different, so iOS 9 and iOS 10 "X" might be the same. Sadly that didn't happen, but... You know
 
They could find a way, adapters maybe? IDK but you don't need any of that for Final Cut to work.
If you don't need any of these when working with Logic or Final Cut, you don't need Logic or Final Cut.

And an adapter? To hook these up to the iPad's Lightning port? You are seriously overestimating Lightning.
 
If you don't need any of these when working with Logic or Final Cut, you don't need Logic or Final Cut.

And an adapter? To hook these up to the iPad's Lightning port? You are seriously overestimating Lightning.

Can't use Lightning for a RAID setup, but other than that, most audio stuff should work OK.

You're also making a lot of assumptions about others' needs.
 
Right, but the mini 4 shipped with 9.0. It’d be unusual to cut off support so soon.
Since upgrading my iPad mini 4 to iOS 11, the lag time has noticeably increased. I’m not sure if I should upgrade to iOS 12, let alone iOS 13 which mostly likely will render it nearly useless. I think Apple will cap it at iOS 12 due to increasing performance issues with the A8. Those iPad focused enhancements that supposedly iOS 13 will introduce will no doubt be impossible to implement on an A8-powered iPad with only 2GB of RAM without significant performance degradation. In other words, please Apple, give me an iPad mini replacement that’s very close in size to what I got now with an iPhone X body/FaceID/A11 or 12 with 4GB of RAM. I’m ready to open my wallet.
 
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