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Whether if it's the cloud a SD card a computer a hard drive etc the user has to initiate a backup or the whatever the steps to backup are for that device.
If you lose data for lack of backing up lesson learned.

Years ago you couldn't back up photos kept in a Album or shoe box. If they were damaged of lost due to fire or flood they were lost and unrecoverable.

So now we have technology where you can save photos to whatever the cloud etc and users don't take the steps to use the technology to their advantage and it's so easy now days you don't have to think about it.
 
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Did you seriously tell me to get real? If anyone needs to get real it's you. It's a huge security vulnerability. Your Mac harderive can be cloned and then you have unlimited attempts. You just keep accessing clones.
That's not how any of this works. The computer would just send pin input to the phone, which handles the PIN input internally. You're over-complicating how this is supposed to work.

Oh damn, I just realized it's you haha. It's almost romantic how we almost end up doing this dance again.

A simple and basic question here: what's an eight-year-old kid doing with a cell phone in the first place?
That's not really any of your business.
 
He's good at writing and blaming others for everything. But unfortunately his long posts aren't convincing enough. Maybe he needs to cite some sources for his argument ;)

Haha. I am in no way defending the OP, just PhD holders as a whole. I plan on going back to school and getting one after Law School. Its just more than reading and memorizing. Thats all!
 
Haha. I am in no way defending the OP, just PhD holders as a whole. I plan on going back to school and getting one after Law School. Its just more than reading and memorizing. Thats all!

I know I was obviously making an exaggeration.

Good luck with school!
 
Okay, listen...
All of you.

After having heard of my son's mishap today (and yes, he cried for a couple of hours), I did my research (having a PhD in Information Systems Science, I am able to do my homework, thank you) and tried to find out what ways there are to access a phone, when the touch screen is broken. Those boiled down to two alternatives as far as I could tell.

This, I felt (and still feel) is a design flaw (and yes, even if Apple does not know how to implement the feature in a secure way, I'd know, but that's not the point).
I also enquired whether there'd be some wisdom among the usually helpful macrumors -users. During the years, this is a forum where I've got a lot of help, and where I've tried to help.

I apologize if the original thread title was seen as unnecessarily provocative. I'm just appalled that Apple can have transitioned from the IT company which champions usability to a company which seems to have forgotten usability (remember usability is more than ease of use).

While I've received some responses which have been honest attempts at helpfulness, I've also gotten "haha, blame yourself for not doing backups..." -responses (Shame on you, it's a kid who is in pain. I'm just the father trying to help.)

In any case. I thank you for all pertinent comments, and will refrain from fuelling the fire of flamethrowers.

RGDS,
Honestly you did nothing out of order. A lot of these replies were ridiculous and were based on the (inaccurate) assumption that PIN input through iTunes was insecure (it isn't, because Apple could very easily implement it in a manner where the input is simply handed through wire to the phone, and the phone handles the PIN checking internally. It's practically the same as plugging in a lightning keyboard at that point). A lot of these replies were also ultra-sarcastic and not really helping at all. Do not apologize.
 
That's not how any of this works. The computer would just send pin input to the phone, which handles the PIN input internally. You're over-complicating how this is supposed to work.

But if you had multiple copies of your hard drive, you could theoretically send more than 5-10 attempts before the phone was locked. I seriously believe being able to unlock your phone via iTunes is a huge security vulnerability. I don't believe it would take long for someone to be able to bypass the 'failed attempts' failsafe.
[doublepost=1484623201][/doublepost]
I know I was obviously making an exaggeration.

Good luck with school!

Thanks! Much appreciated.
 
But if you had multiple copies of your hard drive, you could theoretically send more than 5-10 attempts before the phone was locked. I seriously believe being able to unlock your phone via iTunes is a huge security vulnerability. I don't believe it would take long for someone to be able to bypass the 'failed attempts' failsafe.

Why does having copies of the hard drive change anything? Try to think of your computer in this case as a glorified keyboard - all it has to do is send a n-digit PIN over a cable to the phone. The phone is still the one that's handling all of the processing, and it gets to say "No" whenever it wants. Changing computers/hard drives won't affect the phone's internal processing.
 
Why does having copies of the hard drive change anything? Try to think of your computer in this case as a glorified keyboard - all it has to do is send a n-digit PIN over a cable to the phone. The phone is still the one that's handling all of the processing, and it gets to say "No" whenever it wants. Changing computers/hard drives won't affect the phone's internal processing.

I understand what you are saying. The pass-through method. But I think that can easily be exploited. I don't see any way that could be implemented without putting in a failsafe in iTunes directly. But if someone had multiple clones of your HD, then the failsafe in iTunes could be bypassed.

I guess my point comes down to this. More code equals more security vulnerability and more room for exploitation. Keeping iTunes out of it increases security. using iTunes is literally just giving another way to access the device. It opens up for 3rd party software to run algorithms.
 
I understand what you are saying. The pass-through method. But I think that can easily be exploited. I don't see any way that could be implemented without putting in a failsafe in iTunes directly. But if someone had multiple clones of your HD, then the failsafe in iTunes could be bypassed.

I guess my point comes down to this. More code equals more security vulnerability and more room for exploitation. Keeping iTunes out of it increases security. using iTunes is literally just giving another way to access the device. It opens up for 3rd party software to run algorithms.
Well..it can't.. because the failsafe isn't in iTunes, it's in the iPhone. iTunes does no further processing than literally "here's some text" to the iPhone.

The only case I can imagine that this may be a security issue is if an application on the computer is somehow "sniffing" traffic over the USB, figuring out what iTunes is sending to the iPhone, and taking an unlocked phone state as "This PIN attempt was correct." So yes, it is a security thing after all, but it only takes place when the legitimate owner is entering their PIN on an infected computer. Otherwise, a thief for example would never be able to exploit this.

Always a pleasure to have these chats, Mlrollin91. :D
 
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Well..it can't.. because the failsafe isn't in iTunes, it's in the iPhone. iTunes does no further processing than literally "here's some text" to the iPhone.

The only case I can imagine that this may be a security issue is if an application on the computer is somehow "sniffing" traffic over the USB, figuring out what iTunes is sending to the iPhone, and taking an unlocked phone state as "This PIN attempt was correct." So yes, it is a security thing after all, but it only takes place when the legitimate owner is entering their PIN on an infected computer. Otherwise, a thief for example would never be able to exploit this.

Always a pleasure to have these chats, Mlrollin91. :D

Likewise! Lol.

I see what you are saying. So an infected computer would compromise the pass-through PIN that is being sent to the phone. So though it may be unlikely your computer is infected and being monitor, it still does leave that possibility open. I guess if someone is targeting you and wants to unlock your phone, you would have to avoid entering your PIN via iTunes, but you would also be open to other possible attacks. When it comes to computer/phone security, I personally believe less options/connections are better. Right now I am just a broke law student, but one day, that will change and security will be a huge deal.
 
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So, our older kid got a used 5C this christmas, and wouldn't you know, less than one month later the display is cracked (display shows everything clearly, but touch active only over a third of display).

We have a number of local iPhone repair shops, and while some say they will wipe the phone (as a precaution to ensure parts compatibility) before proceeding all say "make sure to backup before bringing to repair".
Nice.

With 2/3 of the touch screen dead, I can't unlock (and no, voice control does not allow unlocking in this language area - it just tries to call the passcode number), thus I can't sync/backup.

Nice going Apple. Would it have been so difficult to allow entering the passcode within iTunes, tethered to the phone in question. I mean, it's not like screen damage isn't the most common damage an iPhone has.

- - -

Unless someone has a useable idea I have not yet heard of, these are the options...

Scr** it, he's only been taking pictures of his football team, nothing else to back up. Who cares?
*** Wrong thinking. Rather try to teach your kid to value his data.

Well, Do whatever it takes to recover the data then... In principle yes, but with the only solution being buying a lightning keyboard (80 € incl. postage), which together with the repair/service (80€) more than exceeds the value of the device this seems . . . ridiculous.
*** Even data has to have a price/value.

And as I said, why could you not unlock the phone via the computer when tethered.

RGDS,

P.S. iPhones in the family (2G, 3G, 3GS, 4, 4S, 5, 5S, 5SE, 6S) for 8+ years, first time this problem.
If the phone is set to connect to wifi automatically when your at home in range of your router, if you then plug it in to charge it will automatically back up to iCloud (unless you've changed the default settings).
This is what I would do in this situation

Good luck
 
Can you believe that? Bad Apple.
He only had it for less than a month and the screen cracked.
And off course Apple never came by to plug in and create any backups so now they're stuck with losing the kids data. :D
It's a design fault.

Well, actually; I owe the OP an apology. It was needlessly snarky comment.
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Yeah, sigh. This quality of commentary is why I've frequented macrumors less and less.

It's my son's fault that he damaged his iPhone.

The fact that there seems to be no sensible way in this case to make a backup of the computer's/camera's/phone's data would, in my opinion, indicate a design flaw.

RGDS,


My apology, it was a needlessly snarly reply. I hope you find a way to get it sorted without losing any data. :)
 
I don't think Apple is to blame. As a consumer, it is your responsibility to make sure your personal documents, pictures and the like are backed up, so that they can be retrieved. If you didn't make sure that that was consistently done, the fault rest with you, even though the screen cracked.
 
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I don't think Apple is to blame. As a consumer, it is your responsibility to make sure your personal documents, pictures and the like are backed up, so that they can be retrieved. If you didn't make sure that that was consistently done, the fault rest with you, even though the screen cracked.
To be fair, while it seems that that discussion sort of unnecessarily taken a turn to be about that for the most part, it seems like the thread itself (as the OP posed it) wasn't/isn't really about that and more about a way to access an iOS device that has a damaged screen and why certain reasonable ways of doing it aren't offered.
 
OP: backup your phones regularly.

iPhones are electronic devices and they break on occasion. That's when you need your backup.

Heed this advice or rue the day...your choice. Nuff said.
 
Yeah, sigh. This quality of commentary is why I've frequented macrumors less and less.

It's my son's fault that he damaged his iPhone.

The fact that there seems to be no sensible way in this case to make a backup of the computer's/camera's/phone's data would, in my opinion, indicate a design flaw.

RGDS,

It is your sons fault for not backing up regularly. NOT Apple's fault.
 
Yeah, sigh. This quality of commentary is why I've frequented macrumors less and less.

It's my son's fault that he damaged his iPhone.

The fact that there seems to be no sensible way in this case to make a backup of the computer's/camera's/phone's data would, in my opinion, indicate a design flaw.

RGDS,
Phone should have been backed up before it was damaged. ALSO your fault. What else you got?
 
OP: backup your phones regularly.

iPhones are electronic devices and they break on occasion. That's when you need your backup.

Heed this advice or rue the day...your choice. Nuff said.

It is your sons fault for not backing up regularly. NOT Apple's fault.

Phone should have been backed up before it was damaged. ALSO your fault. What else you got?
Seems like the main point of the thread is getting overlooked and a tangent is still being focused on, as I mentioned a little earlier:
To be fair, while it seems that that discussion sort of unnecessarily taken a turn to be about that for the most part, it seems like the thread itself (as the OP posed it) wasn't/isn't really about that and more about a way to access an iOS device that has a damaged screen and why certain reasonable ways of doing it aren't offered.
 
So, our older kid got a used 5C this christmas, and wouldn't you know, less than one month later the display is cracked (display shows everything clearly, but touch active only over a third of display).

We have a number of local iPhone repair shops, and while some say they will wipe the phone (as a precaution to ensure parts compatibility) before proceeding all say "make sure to backup before bringing to repair".
Nice.

With 2/3 of the touch screen dead, I can't unlock (and no, voice control does not allow unlocking in this language area - it just tries to call the passcode number), thus I can't sync/backup.

Nice going Apple. Would it have been so difficult to allow entering the passcode within iTunes, tethered to the phone in question. I mean, it's not like screen damage isn't the most common damage an iPhone has.

- - -

Unless someone has a useable idea I have not yet heard of, these are the options...

Scr** it, he's only been taking pictures of his football team, nothing else to back up. Who cares?
*** Wrong thinking. Rather try to teach your kid to value his data.

Well, Do whatever it takes to recover the data then... In principle yes, but with the only solution being buying a lightning keyboard (80 € incl. postage), which together with the repair/service (80€) more than exceeds the value of the device this seems . . . ridiculous.
*** Even data has to have a price/value.

And as I said, why could you not unlock the phone via the computer when tethered.

RGDS,

P.S. iPhones in the family (2G, 3G, 3GS, 4, 4S, 5, 5S, 5SE, 6S) for 8+ years, first time this problem.

I bought a used iPhone 5 online recently and repaired the screen myself (the screen was utterly smashed). I bought the screen from a 3rd party vendor, and it worked fine, with no reset involved (when the screen was fitted, the previous owner's data was all there).

So I would just take it to the repair shop and hope for the best.
 
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I bought a used iPhone 5 online recently and repaired the screen myself (the screen was utterly smashed). I bought the screen from a 3rd party vendor, and it worked fine, with no reset involved (when the screen was fitted, the previous owner's data was all there).

So I would just take it to the repair shop and hope for the best.
This.
At this point, hoping for the best is probably the most reasonable move. The backup policy is more of precautionary. In reality, replacing the screen shouldn't really need a reset (no TouchID here).

As for alternative input method, even old school feature phones can be rendered useless if their keys/screen are broken. So it's not like Apple is suddenly a bad company. Let it be a learning point instead of shifting blames and calling names.
 
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I bought a used iPhone 5 online recently and repaired the screen myself (the screen was utterly smashed). I bought the screen from a 3rd party vendor, and it worked fine, with no reset involved (when the screen was fitted, the previous owner's data was all there).

So I would just take it to the repair shop and hope for the best.

Either way, allowing someone who is experienced with screen repair should assess the situation to be repaired. I would agree with Apple or third party to address the damage.
 
My son broke the screen on his 5c as well. It's quite easy to replace the screen. I just did it a couple weeks ago. There are many youtube videos on it, and I bought a replacement screen with all the pieces already installed(camera, home button, etc.) for less than $30. I wouldn't worry about backing up the phone. There isn't anything involved with replacing the screen that would cause the memory to be erased. It's literally 6 screws and popping off 3 connectors to change the screen.
 
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To be fair, while it seems that that discussion sort of unnecessarily taken a turn to be about that for the most part, it seems like the thread itself (as the OP posed it) wasn't/isn't really about that and more about a way to access an iOS device that has a damaged screen and why certain reasonable ways of doing it aren't offered.
I don't think Apple are in the business of designing ways of accessing broken iPhones (other than for in-house trained people). Apple are in the business of designing ways to access working iPhones (working screens, working Touch ID sensors etc).

I don't think it's reasonable to expect Apple to give you a way to access a broken phone.
 
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