roadbloc
macrumors G3
I apologise. I was under the illusion that this thread was about smartphones, not all mobile devices.
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Nielsen: Apple the number one U.S. smartphone maker with 28% share
- Thread starter *LTD*
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I apologise. I was under the illusion that this thread was about smartphones, not all mobile devices.
Also you can't blame people for jumping on a "buy one get 18 free" deal (I'm exaggerating, please don't go crazy fandroids). The point is, Android phones are offered at low pricepoints, with some pretty crappy options and those ALL count toward share. In a case of 300 to 1, 300 will always win share. And to put it in more perspective, share is the only statistical thing that Android has over iOS (not revenue, not apps, not devs, not individual sales, not loyalty, not desirability, not profit, not app revenue, etc). Every other stat (that actually matters) belongs to Apple.
KnightWRX
macrumors Pentium
What about the UK carriers that offer free iPhone 4s ? That's an even better deal than BOGOF, because frankly, who needs 2 phones and you still have to pay the first one...
So by your logic and FT's, the iPhone 4 should outsell Android and be crappier on account of a sweet "FREE!" offer.
Now, let's get the chart so we can get some real discussion going :
What about the UK carriers that offer free iPhone 4s ? That's an even better deal than BOGOF, because frankly, who needs 2 phones and you still have to pay the first one...
So by your logic and FT's, the iPhone 4 should outsell Android and be crappier on account of a sweet "FREE!" offer.
Now, let's get the chart so we can get some real discussion going :
There are FAR more subsidies on Android phones worldwide then their are on iPhones. I'm not saying Android is crappy because they have BOGO deals, I'm saying they have such a huge share because of BOGO, multiple pricepoints and sheer number of devices. I'm not trying to slight Android, I'm just explaining using common sense why share is so high. It would be more of a shock if Android didn't have the higher share. In fact, it wouldn't make sense if they didn't. I don't think Android is some crappy unusable OS, but it's definitely no iOS.
KnightWRX
macrumors Pentium
Depends, come iOS 5, iOS should be starting to catch up. Maybe iOS 6 will bring about animated wallpapers and lock screen widgets/desktop widgets instead of the lame spring board. 😀
You shouldn't be so hard on iOS. It'll catch back up to Android, Apple just sat on their laurels a little.
This comes down to the merits of a vertical business model vs. The others (in which universal licensing of the OS is characteristic thereof.)
Like I said before, features that cause your OS to lag beyond usability is not something that I'd be proud of. I know there are people there who say "I've never had a problem with Android ever in my entire life, ever!!!", but those people are few and far between (and also call Apple a cult, and mention Kool-Aid and Uncle Steve in their posts). The truth of the matter is, every Android phone I've seen has had some sort of lag and it gets worse the more you use it. Sure it has all these great features, but what's the point if you can barely use them because your OS slows to a crawl after two weeks?
That's not to say iPhones don't lag, I'm sure some do. But to deny what happens in Android after you've used your phone for a couple of weeks is just turning a blind eye to the obvious...
You act as if animated wallpapers don't cause Android to lag...🙄
Or putting too many widgets on your homescreens keeps your Android experience nice and smooth...🙄
Or those skips and jaggedness as you scroll through your contacts is just a "feature"...🙄
KnightWRX
macrumors Pentium
I bet Google wouldn't either, hence why they're not including in Android. 😉
Play with an actual Android device sometime, you might be surprised. Only Apple manages to make devices lag beyond usability (or did we forget iOS 4 on the 3G ? No seriously, displaying a 480x320 PNG makes the phone lag ?)
I own three Android devices, I know what I'm talking about. You're really gonna sit there and tell me that live wallpapers don't cause lag? Or that putting too many widgets on your homescreens don't cause lag? Seriously? Come on, man...who are you trying to fool, here? Do a simple Google search for "android lag" and you will find thousands of people who complain about Android phones from the crappy Eris, all the way up to the TB...
And like I said, I didn't deny that some iOS devices lag, I'm sure they do. But there is nowhere near as much lag as there is on Android (not that you would know, since you luckily have managed to purchase the one Android device in the galaxy that has no issues...🙄 )
KnightWRX
macrumors Pentium
Yes, I am. Having seen it in action of both the ancient Nexus One and the original Samsung Galaxy S, it didn't cause any lag at all.
You're going to sit there and tell me Apple doing it on the iPhone 3G was lag free ? Seriously, my 1991 386 could display a desktop wallpaper lag free, why can't Apple with a 500 mhz phone ?
I have not purchased any Android phones, I have played around with those of people I know. I have an iPhone and my next purchase will probably be another iPhone, invested as I am in the eco-system. Don't go assuming that people who do not blantantly "hate" Google are all Android owners. Some of us are just level headed consumers who aren't afraid to admit all options are mostly equivalent in the end.
What part of "I'm not denying that iOS devices lag" are you having a hard time understanding?...no one is denying that iOS devices can lag, but it's comical that you're trying to say that there are Android devices that don't.
I've owned three, the D1, the Incredible and the TB and they've all lagged, even without live wallpapers. I've played with probably every single Android phone available on Verizon and AT&T and they've all lagged...Android phones lag...that's almost "what they do"...
I'm sorry, it's clear that you will defend Android to the death, to the point of denying what's in front of your face, so it's probably better if we just agree to disagree...
CalBoy
macrumors 604
There are a few important things to keep in mind about the Chinese market:
1: The Chinese tend to buy status symbols that they feel demonstrate wealth and prominence. The Economist had a great article on this 2-3 weeks ago. Right now Apple can cash in on this because it is viewed as the Cadillac of consumer electronics. However, if Apple's image were to be tarnished (I'm going to venture this is highly unlikely), another company were to be considered an even better status symbol (unlikely over the short term-5 years or so, but not over the long term), or if the number of Chinese willing to spend top dollar on their consumer electronics were to fall, Apple would be in big trouble.
2: The Chinese are masters at copying. We've already seen fake iPhones in China for a while, and there's no reason to think they'll stop. Someone who can't afford the full cost of an iPhone will probably pay half (or a third or a fourth) to get a really, really good knock-off. When you buy things to keep up with the Joneses, you tend to care a lot less about whether or not something is the genuine article and a lot more about whether or not you can fool others into believing it's the genuine article.
3: China, like much of Asia and Latin America, still has lots of people who are moving up the economic ladder. Before they can get to status symbol level, millions (billions in fact) will have to buy cheaper alternatives, many of which will be powered by Android and Windows Mobile (through Nokia). Along the way, some will invariably decide that they actually prefer this to iOS. It's an inevitability because one OS cannot possibly please 100% of 7 billion different tastes.
As much as I enjoy using iOS products, I don't think the public will want them forever. There is a sunset to every popular product. Eventually generics will triumph like they have in all other industries because it provides greater consumer choice, lower cost (to consumers and manufacturers), and superior customization options.
We keep hearing this sort of twisted logic applied to Apple. But it never seems to hold.
Ok, we'll give it another decade and see what happens. Fair?
Hellhammer
Moderator emeritus
How can you say it never holds? Things like these don't happen overnight. Go back a few years and Apple was very different from what it's today. Apple is still in the growing stage, mainly because iOS is still fairly new. However, at some point, their growth will stop and we all know what is the direction from that point. All this will take time, even a decade can be too short period to make any conclusions.
Why? Because the people change. The people who made today's Apple, the successful Apple, won't be around in 2050. While Steve and other people will most likely choose the best successors, they aren't the same as the original ones. Sometimes this can be a good change, the new one ends up increasing the growth and profit. However, filling Steve's boots will be a huge job and I doubt there are many who can do that successfully. It's more than just keeping the company running, you have to keep coming up with innovations and other ideas and products that make your company that successful. This is one of the reasons why none of the Android OEMs really sticks out, they are all more or less selling the same stuff.
Apple's history is a good example. Apple was in huge rise in the late 80s. However, it only took a couple of years and the fall had already started in early 90s. Back then, people thought the same, Apple can't do anything wrong. They were wrong. When Steve came back, Apple started to rise again, slowly but steadily. That rise has made Apple what it is today but at some point the rise will stop.
That is not twisted thinking, that is how the industry works. You can't be the number #1 forever. It applies to Apple too, as well as any other company.
Ok. So?
The Apple of 2011 is far different from any time during the 80s and 90s.
They're here to stay (probably not forever, but probably *for* the next decade - that enough for you?) and their influence is PERVASIVE. I'd be far more worried about their competitors' staying power.
It's pointless to say "one day they'll fall." Sure, that's only natural. No kidding. Eventually everything comes to an end. But it won't be for quite a while. See you in 2020. Maybe then.
You can get into infinite what-ifs and absurdities, but the most sensible thing to do is to base future outlook on what they're doing *now.* Based on that, it'll be pretty rosy for the next few years. That's all that matters.
Hellhammer
Moderator emeritus
You implied that Apple is immortal, and I pointed out that they are not. Yes, Apple is much different from 80s and 90s but that was merely an example that the same Apple brand has been in the bottom as well.
I didn't say the next few years don't look good, as they definitely do. In fact, I said Apple is still in the growing stage as their financial records show.
uh, no. LOL
They just break a lot of the conventional thinking that is normally applied to their industry.
It ensures LONGEVITY (probably more than most.) NOT immortality.
It's always easier to assume the more reasonable explanation than to assume the one that is downright absurd.
Hellhammer
Moderator emeritus
CalBoy posted:
CalBoy said:
You replied:
*LTD* said:
So how should one interpret that? CalBoy said that at some point, Apple's success will stop, and you replied that this logic doesn't apply to Apple.
CalBoy
macrumors 604
You hear the forum posts? Oh dear. 😉
You can say that for now because iOS is a scant 4 years old. That is infancy compared to the grand scheme of industry. Consumers are finicky. Aside from necessities like food, clothing, and medicine, very few products can last in a non-generic form. To suggest that Apple is somehow special, you would need to demonstrate that Apple can successfully anticipate consumer taste and desire for a very long time, AND prevent imitators from being successful.
For that last point, I think Apple has already failed for the iPhone. Other smartphone competitors have rapidly learned from Apple to produce very competitive products in that market. Apple might be the single largest handset maker for smartphones, but unless its share exceeds 50%, it's really a leader amongst dwarves, not a god amongst insects.
The only way this can work is if we agree to what constitutes what prior to the decade. If Apple's marketshare falls, is that a sign of failure? Profits? What?
Just about the only thing that is certain is that in 10 years, your metrics for "success" will have changed along with Apple's.
FrozenTomato
macrumors regular
Apple may not be number 1 forever. but they will be there longer than 2nd rate copy cat companies such as:
1) Google
2) Samsung
3) HTC
4) Motorola
5) Sony
6) RIM
7) Logitech
8) Nokia
etc....
Most of these companies are undergoing financial dificulties, firing their CEOs, losing revenue, blatantly stealing Apple's innovations just so they can keep up, losing patent disputes, etc.
Majority of these companies won't be in existence in a few years. Including Google.
1) Google
2) Samsung
3) HTC
4) Motorola
5) Sony
6) RIM
7) Logitech
8) Nokia
etc....
Most of these companies are undergoing financial dificulties, firing their CEOs, losing revenue, blatantly stealing Apple's innovations just so they can keep up, losing patent disputes, etc.
Majority of these companies won't be in existence in a few years. Including Google.
CalBoy
macrumors 604
It's quite interesting that you think all of these companies are second rate copiers, when from what we've seen from iOS 5 so far, Apple has been the one doing the copying:
Notifications are a blatant rip off of Android's, iMessage is awfully similar to RIM Blackberry Messenger, iCloud finally accomplishes what most Android users have had for a long time with wireless updates and syncing services without a fee, and many smaller features were copied from independent app developers who are now SOL. Two such apps are Instapaper (Safari's reader feature) and Wunderlist (Reminders).
Even more amazingly, most of these "second rate" companies have pushed the limitations of hardware that have allowed iPhone users to enjoy superior products. It was a non-iPhone that had the first 5MP camera, and it was a non-iPhone that had the first flash to go with that camera. A non-iPhone was the first to implement noise-cancelling speakers, and to have a display with higher pixel density.
So what you're really saying is that these companies are second rate because they attempt to copy Apple's sense of style and flare, after Apple is done copying everything else they developed.
The iPhone is only on two carriers in the US and has 28%. Android is all the carriers and has 39%. If Apple were to drop the iPhone on the big four I'd bet there iOS market share would be higher than Android in the US.
FrozenTomato
macrumors regular
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@hellhammer "Just because Android users are not brand-whores doesn't mean they don't like Android. They are open to other platforms as well. What your graph shows is that iPhone users are mostly brand-whores who will buy whatever Apple releases. "
it means Android phones are generally crap and Android users cant wait to dump their phones for an iPhone.
@hellhammer "Just because Android users are not brand-whores doesn't mean they don't like Android. They are open to other platforms as well. What your graph shows is that iPhone users are mostly brand-whores who will buy whatever Apple releases. "
it means Android phones are generally crap and Android users cant wait to dump their phones for an iPhone.
Hellhammer
Moderator emeritus
Yet another pointless and baseless argument. Can you actually prove that most Andorid phones are crap? Because you keep making that statement post after post, yet you fail to provide any evidence other than your own, biased opinion.