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Nikon or Pentax?
- Thread starter epicwelshman
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Again, Comfort (especially ours, or any reviewer) is absolutely irrelevant to the person that needs to buy, and use said camera. I have opinions on which camera is more comfortable, and it does differ with yours and many other people, but that does nothing to help epicwelshman find a camera they like.
That being said, if you are going to look into features only, it sounds like the Pentax is a great camera for this user. If they don't want to have to expend extra cash for items such as Image Stabilization (in a lens) or something else in a tangible sense, it makes sense to go with Pentax.
It sounds to me that epicwelshman has made his or her decision on what to buy, now they just need to take the plunge, and buy the toys to go with it 😉 .
bousozoku
Moderator emeritus
I'm of the opinion that you're getting a better camera at a reasonable price with Pentax and Nikon (and Canon) are just filling up the low end with anything because they feel the need and hope that people will step up to their more expensive models.
That said, you should try each in a store because feel and being able to find controls intuitively will make a difference when you're busy. Feel isn't the end-all-be-all but it does matter quite a lot. Camera makers change the insides but they don't change the position of dials and buttons often. Once you've gone with a certain maker, it's tough to throw it all away and start over with someone else.
Nikon make good cameras but anything below the D70s is a bit too far down their line and Pentax have done a better job with the price points.
That said, you should try each in a store because feel and being able to find controls intuitively will make a difference when you're busy. Feel isn't the end-all-be-all but it does matter quite a lot. Camera makers change the insides but they don't change the position of dials and buttons often. Once you've gone with a certain maker, it's tough to throw it all away and start over with someone else.
Nikon make good cameras but anything below the D70s is a bit too far down their line and Pentax have done a better job with the price points.
Ideally I'd like to get very, very serious about my photography. I also understand that the body is secondary to the glass. Now, is Canon glass really that much better than Nikon? Also... should I basically suck it up and get an XT or XTi purely for future glass? That's really all I could afford at the moment, in terms of bodies.
I have no personal experience that can allow me to say that Canon glass is better than Nikon. However a larger percentile of professional photographers appear to prefer the Canon camera system / glass over Nikon. Their cameras, when equipped with high end lenses have a great professional reputation (with some obvious exceptions) for producing quality images with no compromise.
One thing I can say from experience though, Canon does allot of work to keep professionals happy. For the 7 years that I have been attending NAIAS (North American International Auto Show) in Detroit, Canon has had a strong representation. They offer many lenses (highly expensive L lenses) up for photographers to use during the event, provide tips and training on them, and on cameras. They also provide camera cleaning, and repair services, lens cleaning services, and other camera related services to keep professionals equipment in top order, and producing the best images possible.
I don't think you can go wrong with either Nikon, Pentax or Canon, I just tend to see more Canon equipment in the field. There are pros that do awesome work using Nikon and Pentax equipment, and there is a growing number of them in both camps.
My choice to go with my Canon 30d had to do more with how the company has represented itself, and supported amateur and professional photographers I know. This was a bigger selling point for me, than some other factors discussed here.
One thing I can say from experience though, Canon does allot of work to keep professionals happy. For the 7 years that I have been attending NAIAS (North American International Auto Show) in Detroit, Canon has had a strong representation. They offer many lenses (highly expensive L lenses) up for photographers to use during the event, provide tips and training on them, and on cameras. They also provide camera cleaning, and repair services, lens cleaning services, and other camera related services to keep professionals equipment in top order, and producing the best images possible.
I don't think you can go wrong with either Nikon, Pentax or Canon, I just tend to see more Canon equipment in the field. There are pros that do awesome work using Nikon and Pentax equipment, and there is a growing number of them in both camps.
My choice to go with my Canon 30d had to do more with how the company has represented itself, and supported amateur and professional photographers I know. This was a bigger selling point for me, than some other factors discussed here.
No, they aren't. Nikon and Canon, Pentax et al, all have some very quality glass. Now with saying that, not all of the lens from their respective companies are equal at the same lengths. Their coatings do vary and do make a difference. To me, Nikon shoots a bit warmer than Canon. But, either way you can take excellent pictures from any of these systems. I have pro friends from both Nikon and Canon camps and they all take equally good pictures.
If you have the option to do so, I would highly suggest renting or borrowing the cameras you are looking at and go shoot with them.
Also you do any of your friends or family have SLRs already? That was a huge factor for me when I was deciding on my system. My old film stuff is Canon. But, majority of the people I shoot with are Nikon. I like both systems. However, given that my old Canon lens won't meter or are AF, plus the lack of telephoto lens in my Canon collection; lead me to go with Nikon. I primarily shoot pro sports. For me, going Nikon made more sense; since I would have access to a 400m 2.8 that way.
Abstract
macrumors Penryn
You're going to get this from Nikon, Canon, or Pentax lenses. A higher percentage of professionals use Canon not because the quality of lens is better in the Canon camp, but because their long telephoto lenses are better than Nikons. I remember Silentwave disagreeing with me the last time I said this, but from what I've read, and from looking at the lens lineups, it's true. That's not to say that Nikon doesn't have telephoto lenses. It's just that Canon's telephotos are quite strong, while Nikon doesn't really do these telephotos as well (although they still do them well, I think, and offer things that Canon simply does not offer). There are exceptions, but I'd say that's a fair statement, and I'm a Nikon user.
Of course, it really depends on what sort of pro you're talking about. I'm sure some photographers would scoff at the idea of using a DSLR at all when they have a perfectly good medium-format camera on hand.
I like macro photography and landscapes, portraits, and some band and event photography for my uni, etc, and I really wouldn't choose a Canon over a Nikon for these tasks simply because of Canon's strong-points in the lens department, as I don't need them, unlike some pros that need them to do their job. I like a lot of Nikons lenses at shorter focal lengths, and I like Nikon ergonomics. Would I choose a Canon for macro over a Nikon? No.
Jay42
macrumors 65816
It's more about your options rather than the quality when it comes to lenses. Learn what type of shooting you think you will do, and that will help you map out what type of lenses you might consider in the future. Spend some time learning about f stops, focal length, etc. and take a look at the Canon/Nikon lens selections. Both Canon and Nikon make excellent professional quality glass but Canon is generally the choice for sports photographers (ie big, fast lenses).
By the way, one of the biggest mistakes most people make about the XT/XTi body grips is that 100% of the weight is intended to be supported with the left hand from underneath, especially with a big lens. The grip is really just a fixture to rest the fingers on when your index is on the shutter release. The fingers are just making contact with the grip, its not a death squeeze. All that being said, I still prefer Nikons bodies on the low end 😀
Personally I think the XT/XTi are really consumer oriented and lack the professional features that I find useful. They (to me) are bodies for people with too much money who want a really, really fancy point and shoot camera. They have the features if you know how to find them and tweak them, but really, it's just a consumer camera.
I've found that my pentax, while it looks complicated to use, has those professional features and more at my fingertips even when I have it set in total auto mode. If you're going to get serious, then I would start with the K100 body to get into it affordably and upgrade to the more serious pentax body (currently the K10) when you can afford some of the excellent vintage glass that's available and the more expensive body itself.
I've found that the K100 is an inexpensive camera with serious features and I think it's worth more than it costs. I cannot say the same for the digital rebel line- though I have NEVER liked the rebels dating back to their inception and heyday in the 90s.
You'll find in most glass that you'll use that the differences between the three brands are marginal. It comes down to which camera and lens system YOU prefer, not what someone on the internet prefers. I think the pentax offerings are better based on my excellent experience with my SMC-A lenses from the 1980s, particularly my 70-210.
Buying an SLR makes a brand loyalist for life. Pentax is throwing out some good offerings at a great price, so I'm sticking with them.
Most pros I know and have talked to about it have been really impressed with the K100/110 and are surprised when they find out how affordable they are.
I've found that my pentax, while it looks complicated to use, has those professional features and more at my fingertips even when I have it set in total auto mode. If you're going to get serious, then I would start with the K100 body to get into it affordably and upgrade to the more serious pentax body (currently the K10) when you can afford some of the excellent vintage glass that's available and the more expensive body itself.
I've found that the K100 is an inexpensive camera with serious features and I think it's worth more than it costs. I cannot say the same for the digital rebel line- though I have NEVER liked the rebels dating back to their inception and heyday in the 90s.
You'll find in most glass that you'll use that the differences between the three brands are marginal. It comes down to which camera and lens system YOU prefer, not what someone on the internet prefers. I think the pentax offerings are better based on my excellent experience with my SMC-A lenses from the 1980s, particularly my 70-210.
Buying an SLR makes a brand loyalist for life. Pentax is throwing out some good offerings at a great price, so I'm sticking with them.
Most pros I know and have talked to about it have been really impressed with the K100/110 and are surprised when they find out how affordable they are.
What professional features does an XTi lack that you find useful?
The XTi is a very complete camera, and totally usable professionally. It is so nice to see all these threads just being rants from people who have to defend an earlier purchase, even if that purchase was done without all too much knowledge.
What professional features do you speak of ? And what makes them professional?
Er.. Duplicate of Coldrain. sorry.
I bought the Pentax K100D because:
- it felt "right"
- my mom has Pentax lenses (which I use)
That's it. I think how the camera feels in your hands is very important, so like others have said; try them all out.
The worst thing about Pentax is lens availablity. I'm looking into buying the Pentax-FA 77mm f/1.8 Limited and almost everyone is out of stock, or charges an exorbitant price. I've finally found a reputable dealer who looks like they have some but they have yet to respond to my email (will be phoning them soon).
I was told by another dealer that if I ordered through them, it may take over a month. This lens is highly acclaimed and although I could order its cheaper and more available succesor (the DA 70) the 77 has too much prestige to just give up. This is not always the case but most of Pentax's higher end (and almost anything above 200mm for that matter) can be quite hard to come by.
I bought into the company knowing this so I'm okay with it, but it might be something that sways your decision.
- it felt "right"
- my mom has Pentax lenses (which I use)
That's it. I think how the camera feels in your hands is very important, so like others have said; try them all out.
The worst thing about Pentax is lens availablity. I'm looking into buying the Pentax-FA 77mm f/1.8 Limited and almost everyone is out of stock, or charges an exorbitant price. I've finally found a reputable dealer who looks like they have some but they have yet to respond to my email (will be phoning them soon).
I was told by another dealer that if I ordered through them, it may take over a month. This lens is highly acclaimed and although I could order its cheaper and more available succesor (the DA 70) the 77 has too much prestige to just give up. This is not always the case but most of Pentax's higher end (and almost anything above 200mm for that matter) can be quite hard to come by.
I bought into the company knowing this so I'm okay with it, but it might be something that sways your decision.
I'm the only one in my family and my group of friends interested in photography, hence I'm starting out with a clean slate... I have no lenses available to me other than the ones I'll buy. I think I'd like to stick with Canon/Nikon purely for lens and accessory availability. The main problem I have I suppose is body vs lens, so i guess I'll just have to see what happens 🙂
If one thing is not very important, it actually is how it feels in your hand in comparisson to other cameras. A DSLR should do one thing well, and that is delivering image quality. I do not find myself comparing my DSLR all the time with others, to see how it feels in one hand. I do not know many people that choose a cellphone on how its "grip" feels in your hand. You get used very quickly to whatever camera you are using.
If you find yourself making photos in lower light conditions where you do not want to flash the hell out of the (not static scene), high ISO low noise performance is important. This is in most classes the area where Canon is on top.
If you often find yourself making longer exposure shots and macro shots with long-ish exposures, mirror lock up is an important feature. Here Nikon is not the best choice (only offering it on the D200 and D2x).
If you need telerange and IS becomes more important, and you do not want to spend too much, Pentax is a smart choice (and Sony of course also offers in-body IS).
If you want a big range of high quality lenses, Canon is a smart choice, and Nikon does not lag all that far behind in that area.
Of course, Pentax has a nice range of single focal point lenses, and a few good zoom lenses too.
User interface wise I find Canon the easiest to use, not too many buttons yet most things are quickly reachable. This may of course vary from person to person.
If dynamic range is your most important requirement, a Canon EOS 5D, A Fuji S3/S5 Pro and A Sigma SD10/14 are the best choices.
If you want a compact, light camera because you like to take it along on trips and such all the time and do not care for lugging around a big weight, a Canon XTi is hard to beat, with its high quality 10mp and complete features. If you require IS in-body, then the Pentax K100D is also a very good, compact and light choice, only 6mp but offering IS and good image quality too.
Of course, if you happen to have a lens collection already, that may be a big reason to go for a certain brand.
If you find yourself making photos in lower light conditions where you do not want to flash the hell out of the (not static scene), high ISO low noise performance is important. This is in most classes the area where Canon is on top.
If you often find yourself making longer exposure shots and macro shots with long-ish exposures, mirror lock up is an important feature. Here Nikon is not the best choice (only offering it on the D200 and D2x).
If you need telerange and IS becomes more important, and you do not want to spend too much, Pentax is a smart choice (and Sony of course also offers in-body IS).
If you want a big range of high quality lenses, Canon is a smart choice, and Nikon does not lag all that far behind in that area.
Of course, Pentax has a nice range of single focal point lenses, and a few good zoom lenses too.
User interface wise I find Canon the easiest to use, not too many buttons yet most things are quickly reachable. This may of course vary from person to person.
If dynamic range is your most important requirement, a Canon EOS 5D, A Fuji S3/S5 Pro and A Sigma SD10/14 are the best choices.
If you want a compact, light camera because you like to take it along on trips and such all the time and do not care for lugging around a big weight, a Canon XTi is hard to beat, with its high quality 10mp and complete features. If you require IS in-body, then the Pentax K100D is also a very good, compact and light choice, only 6mp but offering IS and good image quality too.
Of course, if you happen to have a lens collection already, that may be a big reason to go for a certain brand.
To make an analogy, a pro cyclist with a cheap mountain bike could out-race most regular people on expensive carbon-fiber bikes - being a professional photographer is far more about the person than the camera, but they can still get further with the right equipment.
Image quality differences between most newer DSLRs are negligible (unless you're an extreme pixel-peeper), so yes an XTi could be used by a professional - but most would choose a more appropriate model for features like:
- robust build and/or weather-sealing
- bigger/brighter viewfinder
- faster burst speed
- multiple storage card slots
- longer shutter life
- extra weight to balance larger/heavier glass
- faster direct access to features (multiple command dials)
- spot metering, improved/faster focus, higher resolution, etc. (depending on the camera)
The XTi is a fine camera with great image quality (although it's been criticized for ergonomics and some underexposure/sensitivity tradeoffs), but professionals are simply not the target demographic Canon has in mind for it. Use a pro or semi-pro camera professionally, and then go back to an XT or XTi for a paid event where you're under the gun - you'll never need to ask about the differences again.
epicwelshman - having owned both systems, Canon/Nikon are both solid choices, noise/sensitivity is pretty much at par with the latest offerings, pro glass is mostly a wash between them (many think Canon has a telephoto edge, and Nikon has the wide angle), consumer lenses are slightly better with Nikon, a few more lens options with Canon...bottom line is you won't make a mistake with either system. The Pentax K10D looks like a great camera, although I haven't used it personally (there's a joke about non-Canon/Nikon cameras simply taking up shelf space that could be used for Canon/Nikon accessories).
Although I currently use Canon, if I was starting out from scratch today I'd get the D80 (ergonomics, viewfinder, image quality, built-in wireless flash trigger, etc.)...wait a few months and Canon may come out with a 30D successor that betters Nikon, but for today...
Abstract
macrumors Penryn
I guess you've never been a Nikon user, then? 😛 Don't worry man, same boat. I've never had to wait for a lens, but it's not new to other Nikon users.
Well I'd say that it matters a lot. I know you'd get used to changing settings with whatever you get, some of it is just non-intuitive and not as quick. Even my D50 is quick, and my friend who owns a 350D is a bit jealous of how quickly I can change settings on the fly. I just go by feel.....counting clicks when using the scroll wheel thing, and I've been doing that since the first few days I've owned it.
Since this camera is just a tool, I say get the tool that feels best in your hand.
Oh, and nobody meant that the 350D lacked features that other cameras had. Someone just meant that changing settings on a Pentax was quicker and easier to reach than using the 350D. I think Pentax is around the same as Canon in that regard, and neither are as good as Nikon bodies, but that's just me. The Pentax K10D is a bit easier to use than the D200, IMO (well, this is what I imagine if you were just starting out with one camera or the other), but I guess these cameras are in different leagues, really.
compuwar
macrumors 601
I prefer the contrasty look of Nikkor lenses, and Nikon actually makes their own glass. With that said, if you plan on shooting wildlife with long glass, Canon's big guns are both cheaper[1] and equipped with image stabalization, although the Nikkor 200-400 f/4 VR doesn't have any competition if you're one of those "I don't need a tripod" folks. If you're going to shoot events or sports, then it's pretty much a toss-up. Nikon has a better flash system, assuming you choose the right body.
I shoot birds/wildlife with Nikon equipment, and I get great saleable shots. Side-by-side you'll see the contrast difference if there hasn't been a lot of post processing done.
Ergonomics matter if you're going to be in the field for a long time, and they vary from body-to-body in any manufacturer's line. Given that anything 6MP and up (actually 4MP with the D2h series) will give great results from either manufacturer, flash systems and ergonomics are probably the best comparison points outside of the lens line (which is fairly even except for tilt/shift lenses for architecture, but we all know 35mm equiv. digitals aren't the best way to get architecture shots.)
I've shot with the Digital Rebel, Fuji FinePixS2, D200, D70s, and D2x, I can get salable shots out of any of them, but the D2x is still the best body I've shot with in a small format camera. I've played with most of the rest of them in the store, I've looked at all the comparisons, noise plots and resolution charts- pretty much it doesn't matter much for my shooting- any of them will fit the bill. Sports shooters have different requirements, especially for high-speed sports (though I suppose the high speed crop feature of the D2x puts it in the running.)
[1] Yes, it's really not that big a deal price-wise if you can afford glass that costs more than some cars you're probably ROIing the lens anyway. My truck hauls about twice it's value in camera gear.
Clix Pix
macrumors Core
The D80 also has mirror lockup.
coldrain said:
If you want lighweight portability with a lot of features, IMHO the D80 has advantages over any of the Digital Rebels, or if you want to go even smaller, the D40 is extremely small and light in weight.
The D80 does actually NOT have mirror lockup. It merely has an option to flip the mirror up half a second or so before exposure. And what advantages does a D80 have over an XTi/400D, besides the silly in-camera image editting and its spot metering (anyone who thinks you need spotmetering... doesnt understand exposure much).
I would have no idea what the XTi would lack. Or is it the high quality RAW conversion software it has standard?
The D40 matches the size of the XTi/400D, and offers a LOT less features, is hampered in lens choice, had 6mp vs 10mp, no mirror lock up, no good RAW conversion software (will cost 150$ EXTRA). Yes, i can certainly see why you would advice someone a D40 over a 400D (oh wait, I don't.).
Nice to see you have that silly Nikon fangirl virus in every thread.
compuwar
macrumors 601
I shoot with a D2x, they're all "about the same size" to me. The D70s is in between. But then I thought the D200 was a tad small handling-wise. 😀
From the dpreview.com XTi review conclusion (for those unfamiliar, DPReview is widely considered one of the most popular and thorough/unbiased camera review sources):
"Where does the EOS 400D come up short? For me, the camera isn't as comfortable to use as the Nikon or Sony. This may sound petty but I do feel that Canon's tiny grip is a mistake of form over function. Nor does it have the D80's large and bright pentaprism viewfinder, nor can it match the 'eye on the scene' feel you get from the short viewfinder black-out time. The D80 also gives you the surprisingly useful configurable automatic ISO, spot metering, a wider range of customization, wireless flash control, advanced battery information and in-camera retouching. The A100's trump card is it's in-camera CCD-shift Anti-Shake, and we haven't even started to consider Pentax's recently announced K10D which at least on paper is looking like a very strong competitor.
Thanks to its blood line and low price the EOS 400D will no doubt be a huge success for Canon. However unlike the EOS 350D, for me it's no longer the first or obvious choice, so before jumping on the bandwagon make sure you've weighed up the competition."
Haha, yes they would all be "small" to you. And this shows that you get used to what you have. I'd like a big camera for some situations too. But I do enjoy the compact light camera I have because I take it with me everywhere, and a D2x and 1Ds with some heavy lenses are not all that wonderful when you are on a hike all day.
Sorry to disagree, with Canon you are paying for quality. Professional photographers care nothing for names as such, but they do care for quality.
How many Pro's use Pentax?
Dave 🙂 🙂 🙂 (A professional photographer for 30 years)
compuwar
macrumors 601
I generally hike with my 400/2.8 and a humongous Gitzo tripod. I don't get to carry much more than the camera gear though. It's a trade-off, but I'm unwilling to sacrifice image quality and I like to give my customers the best possible prints I can. Mostly though I tend to go shooting when I go shooting, and not do a lot of shooting if I'm not specifically out for that. Prior to the D2x, I owned 2 S2Pros and a D200, the 2x is hands-down the best ergonomically for me, though only the D200 was a little camera.