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furi0usbee

macrumors 68000
Jul 11, 2008
1,790
1,381
You can't expect people to buy an add-on controller just to play a Mario game. Nintendo's games are in a league of their own, still unmatched by anything else out there. But they belong on a console with proper controllers.

My boy... you've just solved the "Nintendo as a hardware company" riddle. What if the hardware they make are great controllers for their games? You know, soon you'll be able to play iOS games with Apple TV, so now you'll have a big screen and a real controller.

Now, Nintendo still makes hardware, and is now the biggest app developer in the world for iOS and Android. Brilliant!

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You are not going to believe this one. They won't put Mario on iOS, but...

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/31/t...ef-announces-foray-into-health-care.html?_r=0
 

spjonez

macrumors member
Nov 15, 2013
90
3
My boy... you've just solved the "Nintendo as a hardware company" riddle. What if the hardware they make are great controllers for their games? You know, soon you'll be able to play iOS games with Apple TV, so now you'll have a big screen and a real controller.

Now, Nintendo still makes hardware, and is now the biggest app developer in the world for iOS and Android. Brilliant!
So Nintendo should produce cheap iOS games and hope they sell better then hardware and premium titles? Think about it, you can't sell a game on iOS for $40. Nintendo would have to sell millions of controllers and millions of copies of every game to make more money then they already are. They'd also be locked into another companies eco-system. Apple changes the iPhone design? Nintendo has to produce all new controllers and convince it's customers to replace them. People drop iOS or Android? Business model collapses. I can't imagine why any company would willingly enter into that type of agreement. The risk of failure is so much higher than it is now and they'd have to give up most of what makes them who they are.
 

furi0usbee

macrumors 68000
Jul 11, 2008
1,790
1,381
Dr. Mario!

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/31/t...ef-announces-foray-into-health-care.html?_r=1

----------

So Nintendo should produce cheap iOS games and hope they sell better then hardware and premium titles? Think about it, you can't sell a game on iOS for $40. Nintendo would have to sell millions of controllers and millions of copies of every game to make more money then they already are. They'd also be locked into another companies eco-system. Apple changes the iPhone design? Nintendo has to produce all new controllers and convince it's customers to replace them. People drop iOS or Android? Business model collapses. I can't imagine why any company would willingly enter into that type of agreement. The risk of failure is so much higher than it is now and they'd have to give up most of what makes them who they are.

What don't you guys understand? Nintendo's home console days are over. There hand-hend days are soon to be over within the next 5 years, when every child is born with either an iOS or Android device in hand.

Their business model has been collapsing. No, you don't need to sell a game on iOS for $40. Is it just me, or companies making hundreds of millions with fruit games? They could sell their games for $4.99 and with IAP for "coins," especially for Mario games, they could make billions.

All that R&D for their hardware, all that overhead, that would be gone. They would become a software business, making some complimentary hardware.

OR, they stop with the furballs, and try to compete with Microsoft and Sony for a real home console. Other than that, they are just living in holding pattern, and soon to run out of fuel.

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Nintendo could pull all this crap back in the day when it was only Sega they were battling against for all the marbles. Now they have Sony and Microsoft, who are much bigger foes, and have well-established console systems.

There is not one person out there who could say otherwise that Nintendo's offerings have been gimmicky and jokes compared the previously mentioned two companies.

Why is Nintendo content on "just getting by" with a joke of a system. With the Wii, they waved the white flag and I fear it's the last flag they'll ever wave.

They are having issues selling 3DS units as well. So if the Wii U was a bomb, and the 3DS is on a the way down, how are they going to make their money? Wii V and a 4DS? Everyone needs to be fired and a new business plan drawn up ASAP.
 

spjonez

macrumors member
Nov 15, 2013
90
3
What don't you guys understand? Nintendo's home console days are over. There hand-hend days are soon to be over within the next 5 years, when every child is born with either an iOS or Android device in hand.
You know that Nintendo has sold almost 3 times more console's (handhelds included) in the last two years than Microsoft and Sony combined right? And that both MS and Sony were selling theirs at a loss while Nintendo made profit on every one?

How much money does MS or Sony make off merchandising? How many hits do either of them own the rights to? Contrast that with Nintendo, HUGE difference.

Their business model has been collapsing. No, you don't need to sell a game on iOS for $40. Is it just me, or companies making hundreds of millions with fruit games? They could sell their games for $4.99 and with IAP for "coins," especially for Mario games, they could make billions.
This is what people seem to miss. You can't expect Mario for $4.99 with IAP. It doesn't work that way, you either get a throw away repetitive puzzle game with IAP or a story with a premium price tag. With so many examples of what does work with IAP and them all being the exact opposite of what you get on a console you can't make that comparison. Any real Nintendo fan would not advocate them changing to that type of business model. It would destroy everything that makes them who they are.

The next supposed chief of MS wants to sell the XBox division. Other than the game division Sony has posted losses across the board. Don't pretend it's just Nintendo in shambles both MS and Sony aren't in the best places either.
 
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furi0usbee

macrumors 68000
Jul 11, 2008
1,790
1,381
You know that Nintendo has sold almost 3 times more console's (handhelds included) in the last two years than Microsoft and Sony combined right? And that both MS and Sony were selling theirs at a loss while Nintendo made profit on every one?

And yet everyone in Nintendo from top/down is taking pay cuts it seems.... for what? It's in reaction to the great success they've had as of late?

Yes, Nintendo was great in the past. THE PAST. Let's talk about 3 years out. You can't honestly say that what they are doing now, 3 years out, will make matters any different. By that time, the Nintendo brass will be paying the company to keep their positions.

Mobile. Mobile. Mobile. That's the way of the world. They have no mobile roadmap to speak of. 4DS isn't going to cut it, unless they can warp space and time.
 

spjonez

macrumors member
Nov 15, 2013
90
3
And yet everyone in Nintendo from top/down is taking pay cuts it seems.... for what? It's in reaction to the great success they've had as of late?
I find that quite refreshing. Management owned up to it. Contrast that with the automotive industry in the USA...

Yes, Nintendo was great in the past. THE PAST. Let's talk about 3 years out. You can't honestly say that what they are doing now, 3 years out, will make matters any different. By that time, the Nintendo brass will be paying the company to keep their positions.
So having the most successful console by far last generation doesn't mean anything? What do you think they did burn all the money they made? Nobody has ever been the top multiple years in a row. That's why it's called the console war. The top dog changes and everyone fights for the spot next year.

Mobile. Mobile. Mobile. That's the way of the world. They have no mobile roadmap to speak of. 4DS isn't going to cut it, unless they can warp space and time.
Your opinion. Personally I can't see myself ever enjoying a game like Mario or Zelda on a touch screen phone. The controls aren't sufficient, it's the same reason you don't see MMO's on console's.

I don't think Mobile is the future of gaming, neither MS or Sony are betting on that either. In fact the industry is going in the opposite direction with Occulus and Omni. The next big jump in games will be through improved interaction, not graphics, not phones, not tablets.
 

theydonotmove

macrumors member
Jan 20, 2010
59
0
New York, NY
And yet everyone in Nintendo from top/down is taking pay cuts it seems.... for what? It's in reaction to the great success they've had as of late?

It's so they don't have to let people go who are at the bottom of the company. Because they know they'll only crawl their way back with the team they have.

I'd love to see if the Apple brass would do that.
 

SAIRUS

macrumors 6502a
Aug 21, 2008
814
507
As an owner of the Wii U, it's an incredibly sloppy system. Case in point: just to access the Wii functionality, you have to reboot the system into Wii mode. That's like launching a Windows XP game from Windows 7 by dual booting into Windows XP.

They can survive this generation, they have tons of cash to survive, but they need to do several things:
-New name
--This will help in marketing

-Upgrade the hardware to stuff similar to next next generation, and have a very good SDK for developers to port their games
--This means also time to bring on disc movie playback, and a very quick menu setup.

-Include a game, and a standard controller
--I kid you not how many of the devs hating to support multiple forms of input. I'll give Microsoft points here in that they included the Kinect and a standard controller.

-Timed exclusives
--Its time Nintendo gets aggressive to bring 3rd parties over

-Second screen integration via the DS
--This makes it optional, and sells more DSes

-Better online system
--People are willing to pay for quality.

-The long term goal
--Eventually the DS and the console should merge and take a small note from the Wii U, that an additional console attachment could provide additional horse power for an external device. Also it's time for Nintendo to eventually release a cell phone. The second I played Angry Birds Go via my iPhone to the Apple TV, something just clicked.
 

SoAnyway

macrumors 6502
May 10, 2011
477
183
I know!! They are ignoring what we want because they are arrogant and believe they know whats best! They are doomed to go the way of Apple.


I'm not sure if Nintendo will "go the way of Apple" as you put it, as Apple posted another record breaking profits earlier this week. My original post said that Nintendo is doomed to follow Sega's fate.
 

Chouster

macrumors newbie
Jan 30, 2014
6
0
Everyone wants to play the armchair economist and predict the end of Nintendo. The reality is that people have been predicting for years the demise of dedicated handheld consoles.

While it's true Nintendo is in a more vulnerable position, Nintendo has bounced back before (Wii after Gamecube, resurgence of 3DS after an initially weak year).

Do people honestly think that the same fans clamoring for the next Mario kart or 3D mario or Zelda will embrace Nintendo the same way when they release a $4.99 Mario game with IAP coins and power-ups? This will do nothing but alienate the fans who play Nintendo games for what they are now, and at the same time, devalue their IP's with crappy games.

Sega had been in decline for a LONG time. Apple was in poor shape at one point too. When Nintendo has been profitable for so long, why does this setback mean the demise of the company?
 

furi0usbee

macrumors 68000
Jul 11, 2008
1,790
1,381
What do you think they did burn all the money they made?

Apparently they've been losing it somehow!

I would like nothing more than to have a Nintendo system in my living room. A system that is serious, is technologically advanced, embraces online play, and let's me have easy access to their back catalog of great games.

I would be first in line to buy NES2. But I don't think I'm every going to see NES2. The reason they will never compete with MS and Sony, is because as other's have repeatedly said, they make money off the console. And because they want to make money off the console up front, they will never give us a good system.

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Sega had been in decline for a LONG time...

Yes, and they figured out their hardware just can't cut it anymore and they don't want to complete, and now they are back to making software. And last I heard, it's working nicely for them.
 

Lennholm

macrumors 65816
Sep 4, 2010
1,003
210
I'm not sure if Nintendo will "go the way of Apple" as you put it, as Apple posted another record breaking profits earlier this week. My original post said that Nintendo is doomed to follow Sega's fate.

I think it's worth pointing out that Apple got to the position they're in now after refusing to give up their hardware business even when they were close to bankruptcy.
 

Chouster

macrumors newbie
Jan 30, 2014
6
0
Yes, and they figured out their hardware just can't cut it anymore and they don't want to complete, and now they are back to making software. And last I heard, it's working nicely for them.

Financially they are doing much better. As a games company, they're nowhere close to being the same company as they were during the Dreamcast days.
 

mysticbluebmw

macrumors regular
Jun 11, 2009
249
34
They're already mobile, and making a ton of money off of it. Why would they want to port their games to the smartphones?

Unlike RIM, the iPhone isn't a direct competitor to their core business. Their business is games. They don't need to go 3rd party to become a success. What they need to do is make the WiiU more of a draw than it currently is.

Except, didn't they report and operating LOSS of $1,580,000,000.00 :confused:
The Wii U was/is a bust. There is no getting around that, or changing that.

I think they realize the number of lost jobs and large corporate restructuring from eliminating thier hardware component, though.
 

Renzatic

Suspended
Except, didn't they report and operating LOSS of $1,580,000,000.00 :confused:
The Wii U was/is a bust. There is no getting around that, or changing that.

I think they realize the number of lost jobs and large corporate restructuring from eliminating thier hardware component, though.

They suffered a 15 million dollar loss this quarter, not billion. That's not good, but hardly the crushing blow that 15 billion would've been.
 

cyberslammer

Suspended
Aug 22, 2013
105
82
Dying a slow death

Nintendo is dying a slow death of denial..they started when the Wii came out..while the motion sensor was a phenomenal idea and innovation, it got old fast....not to mention they released a next gen console without HDMI support and nowhere near the quality graphics of other console games....

All they can continue to do is fall back on the old standby titles such as Mario, Zelda and Donkey Kong...and you can only do that so many times before you lose interest.
 

Renzatic

Suspended
Nintendo is dying a slow death of denial..they started when the Wii came out..while the motion sensor was a phenomenal idea and innovation, it got old fast....not to mention they released a next gen console without HDMI support and nowhere near the quality graphics of other console games....

All they can continue to do is fall back on the old standby titles such as Mario, Zelda and Donkey Kong...and you can only do that so many times before you lose interest.

Yeah, being directly responsible for releasing the two most successful consoles of the previous generation was the first sign of their slow, downward spiral.

I swear, some of you here lose anything approaching objectivity if doesn't have an Apple logo on the back. Their recent losses are a wake up call that they need to get off their asses and do something to turn the ship around, not an indication of a terminal decline.
 

mdelvecchio

macrumors 68040
Sep 3, 2010
3,151
1,149
Unlike RIM, the iPhone isn't a direct competitor to their core business. Their business is games.

actually, iOS *is* a direct competitor to their core business -- casual gaming. nintendo was the star casual gaming platform. that is shifting to iOS more and more, since the iPhone/ipad are generalist devices and casual gaming is becoming quite popular on them.

it's similar to point-and-shoot photography -- iOS photography is "good enough" for casual shooters, deflating the point-and-shoot hardware market. iOS gaming is likewise becoming "good enough" for casual gamers. this will threaten nintendo's portable and console product lines....especially if apple releases the rumored Apple TV + controllers/apps (games) stuff.

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Their recent losses are a wake up call that they need to get off their asses and do something to turn the ship around, not an indication of a terminal decline.

er, the "ship" you're referring to *is* their terminal decline. turning it around is what Nintendo must do to stop that slow death.
 

avanpelt

macrumors 68030
Jun 2, 2010
2,956
3,877
Wow. This is likely just the tip of the iceberg. The CEO is going to be getting his salary cut down to zero when he's fired for not driving the company toward porting their existing hits over to iOS and Android. That would be a huge cash cow and they hold the keys to it.
 

Renzatic

Suspended
actually, iOS *is* a direct competitor to their core business -- casual gaming. nintendo was the star casual gaming platform. that is shifting to iOS more and more, since the iPhone/ipad are generalist devices and casual gaming is becoming quite popular on them.

it's similar to point-and-shoot photography -- iOS photography is "good enough" for casual shooters, deflating the point-and-shoot hardware market. iOS gaming is likewise becoming "good enough" for casual gamers. this will threaten nintendo's portable and console product lines....especially if apple releases the rumored Apple TV + controllers/apps (games) stuff.

I halfway agree. Their consoles, especially since the release of the Wii, have been geared more towards casual gamers, and this is an area where iOS has more than a few strengths.

But their handhelds have always had good 3rd party support with a healthy mix of games for both casuals and core gamer types. Weirdly enough, it's the 3DS that has the most strength against the iPhone, because it has the games, and the popular support.

Yeah, Apple could take this market from them fairly easily with the right titles. But for now, no kid will be completely satisfied with his iPhone, so long as his friends are playing the latest Animal Crossing, Mario Kart, or Pokemon.

er, the "ship" you're referring to *is* their terminal decline. turning it around is what Nintendo must do to stop that slow death.

Well, the "ship" in this instance is the company, which is sailing rough waters, but isn't spinning down a whirlpool. The direction would be the company is sailing, which in this case would be the old standard tried and true, which isn't working out so well for them anymore. While they're not in the shoals just yet, it's all but obvious that they're gonna need to take a new direction to keep from getting there. The times are a'changing, and companies like Nintendo need to change with them or risk becoming obsolete.
 

Liquorpuki

macrumors 68020
Jun 18, 2009
2,286
8
City of Angels
super-mario-brostokens.png


zeldanope.jpg


the future of gaming right thurr!

Nintendo's doomed because they're stuck in the past making stuff like this

mario3dworld.jpg


:apple: FTW
 

Chouster

macrumors newbie
Jan 30, 2014
6
0
Get with the game? There's no point posting in this thread anymore since most aren't reading the counterpoints. iOS is not a panacea and the day Nintendo moves to making f2p Candy Crush games is the day they're no longer Nintendo.
 
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