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As an iOS gamer, I fully agree on this. And add on a lot of the other major companies that are making games for the iOS are doing them as after thoughts (Hey, we made money on our devices and I bet we could make more if we port it over to iOS). Even some of GL games are like that (Prince of Persia for example or Assassin's Creed). EA definitely does that as does Squaresoft. They in general don't put out much new on the iPhone, just ports of stuff they already made money elsewhere, iOS is just extra profit (Though Squaresoft has done a few special to smartphone apps).

Oh, and Squaresoft is one company that hasn't caved into making cheap games (though they still are cheaper than their console counterparts but they are some of the more expensive games you'll find in the app store, and they don't put them on sale often and only half price compared to GL's .99 cent sales).

But yeah, GL apparentlyl has decided iOS doesn't make them enough money and are now trying Freemium (EVIL EVIL EVIL). So.. people keep up insisting on games being .99 cents and game manufacturers are going to do stuff like try Freemium to get us to pay more so they can pay their bills. And I say this as some one who has enjoyed being able to get cheap apps (even have an app watcher for sales) because I'm on a tight budget. But I'm already seeing the writing on the wall :( (and if I had a better budget I'd probably try to do my part and be less cheap about what I'm willing to spend).

But even before I saw the writing on the wall (without others mentioning it to me) I knew that iOS gamers shouldn't want to see Sony and Nintendo fail because, as I said, our games really are dependent on their games (either inspired by or ports over). Unless you want to just see Angry Birds and Cut the Rope type games on iOS.

I will never pay even $0.99 to freemium games. I'd rather pay a one-time $4.99 or more for a professional golf game in iOS. I don't like hidden costs. IAP should be for buying additional packs but not "energy" for playing a normal game.
 
I will never pay even $0.99 to freemium games. I'd rather pay a one-time $4.99 or more for a professional golf game in iOS. I don't like hidden costs. IAP should be for buying additional packs but not "energy" for playing a normal game.

I am so with you on that. And now that I have seen the writing on the wall (the fact that they have to sell games so cheap and it's not making them enough money), I wish I could afford to buy more games at even Squaresoft prices to encourage them they can make money without going to some sleezy freemium type pricing scam.

But GL didn't even do the energy thing on GT Racing (I know they did on the golf game). But they made it impossible to level up or get most cars without paying (you only get one in game dollar per level and most cars cost in game dollars. Even if you go with credits which a few cars you can get that way, the cars are expensive and you don't win too much credits racing. And you can only recieve credits for a race once, once you win it you wont' get credits for winning it again. Plus experience is almost impossible to get enough to level up to get new races). So you have to pay to level up pretty much.

I'm not sure which is worse (the energy one is pretty sleezy too). Even sleezier? GL got rid of Let's Golf 1 and 2 now that they have their freemium out (and they replaced the non freemium GT Racing with the Freemium one. Not quite as bad though as getting rid of previous games just so you can't possibly at least compromise and not buy the new one but buy older ones and just not get the newer features).
 
This is why I don't get comparisons that act like the $1 flash game or $5 ripoff you find on iOS is interchangeable with the $40 cinematic experience you get from handhelds and consoles.

There are a lot of crapware, but it can be interchangeable. Now that I've played hours and hours of Pirates! on my iPad over the weekend, I must say this $4 experience is equal or superior to most $40 experience I've had on my NDS.
 
There are a lot of crapware, but it can be interchangeable. Now that I've played hours and hours of Pirates! on my iPad over the weekend, I must say this $4 experience is equal or superior to most $40 experience I've had on my NDS.

Yeah, but that's also a port of an old game. It's a no brainer for devs like EA, Take-Two, and Square to port 10 year old games to iOS. They already made a profit off the game a long time ago, the dev cost to port is minimal, and these titles automatically go to the top of the "paid apps" list because the quality of gaming on iOS is so low, even a 10 year old game shines.

For a device is supposed to be the future of mobile gaming, I'd expect its best titles to be more than ports, retrogames, mini games, and IP ripoffs.
 
For a device is supposed to be the future of mobile gaming, I'd expect its best titles to be more than ports, retrogames, mini games, and IP ripoffs.

There are plenty of great titles that exist because there is an iPhone. Angry Birds, Zombie Gunship, Fruit Ninja, Sword & Sorcery EP and Infinity Blade are just a few that come to mind. If you dismiss the ports, retrogames, mini games and IP ripoffs from any platform's collection then you would not be left with much.
 
A combination of all of the following hurt Nintendo.

1) Ugly Hardware - If Apple has taught us anything it's that design sells. Apple's products are sleek, sexy and functional. Nintendo tried copying the feel of Apple products with the white, minimalist style of the Wii and DS-line. The problem is they choose to be inspired by late 90's Apple instead of modern day Apple. The Wii and DS up close look like the cheap, bulky, plastic products they are.

2) Sucky Software - Nintendo controls both the hardware and software of their devices, they should work together in harmony. Instead we have half baked features and services that don't work well together, work well sometimes, or don't work at all. Their eStore is a joke and friend codes is a debacle. Why bother spending precious resources on the gimmicky 3D low res camera on the 3DS that no one will use on a regular basis when you could build out the proper infrastructure for a great eStore and online gaming. Why am I calibrating a Wiimote, what is this, 1996? Why does the 3DS still use a stylus?

3) No infrastructure - Sony learnt their lesson the hard way with the PS2 non-existent online network. Microsoft launched the Xbox 360 with a mature Xbox live leaving the PS3 to play catch up. Up to this day they are still trying to match Microsoft feature for feature. It takes a long time to build a fast, stable network. They should have jumped on that bandwagon 3 generations ago. The big tech buzzword nowadays is "cloud computing", Apple being the most successful, Sony and Microsoft and getting their. Point is, they are generating extra revenue by offering services like movies, music, game packs, DLC and more. It's not enough just selling games, where are the services to keep gamers playing those games. Pokemon would make a killing in DLC sales.

4) Casual gaming debacle - Nintendo is paying the ultimate cost of going after the casual market. I guess their mommy never told them to never leave what you have for what you don't have. The casual gamer might outnumber the hardcore gamer, but they are also very fickle. They will run out and buy the newest gizmos if it's priced right or looks cool enough but they seldom come for seconds or thirds or fourths. Nintendo all but abandoned the people that gave them guaranteed money with lackluster, sporadic hardcore games to focus on Wii Sports and various other crapware. The truth is, a lot of hardware was flying off the shelves, but no one was buying games. The casual market was more than happy with Wii Sports, while hardcore gamers starved.

5) No HD/HDMI - Yep, this gets it's own bullet point. How on earth could you release a system with no HD or HDMI support? Sure tube TV's were still in use back when the Wii first came out, but they were already well on their way out. If the Wii support HD gaming, it would still be relevant. Everyone and their mother has an HD TV now, tube TVs are officially extinct as in, not being made anymore. Have you ever seen an SD game running on an HD TV? One word... terrible.

6) Same old, same old - The Wii U and the 3DS feel a continuation of the gimmickry. The Wii U has a huge controller that is a not quite tablet, not quite handheld potential debacle. While the 3DS is nothing more than a bigger, uglier version of the DS featuring 3D, a far more polarizing feature than a crisp, high pixel HD screen. One might argue that the PS Vita is a souped up PSP, at least Sony covered all the bases and future proofed the thing with a capacitive touch screen, buttons when you need them, and the all important 2nd analog stick. It's packed to the gills with great features and can easily cater to both the hardcore and casual markets.

7) To risk, or not to risk - Granted Nintendo takes on huge risks with underpowered hardware that uses some gimmickry to stand out, but they play it too safe in their software. There is no need for a Nintendo rumor site, because everybody knows their next game will be a Zelda, a Mario, a Metroid that is exactly the same as the last. They have strong franchises, but enough with the milking, gamers are getting disillusioned. Where are the new IP's, where is the new gameplay that takes existing franchises to the next level.

8) App Store with a twist - At this point in time all the major players need to have an app store, and I'm not talking about a general purpose app store like Apple, but a specialized app store with full featured games, old-school catalog games, bite-sized games, episodic content, DLC, demos, and apps that lean toward gamer centric use. This app store has to have a twist, a well thought out, well implemented social component so people can easily meet new friends and like minded gamers, kinda like Facebook but without the monthly privacy issues, and friend codes can go bye-bye too. They can still use physical media, to keep trade-in gamers happy, but give gamers the choice of physical media or download. There is a huge market for this, just look at the top sellers on Apple's store, they are all games.

Nintendo doesn't need to be a third party publisher to thrive. They need nicely designed, sleek, future-proof hardware with fully-functional, easy to use software that is not only good at doing multiple things, but doing them well. They need a library of fantastic, innovative, full-featured games, old-school catalog games, bite-sized games and new IP. They need some kind of app store with solid social features to build a community around, and the infrastructure to support online play and services. They need to put more effort in taking care of their base, the hardcore gamer who will spend the money, while still addressing the casual crowd. They need to spend those R&D dollars wisely, the era of the attachment is over. People no longer have space in their homes for a million crappy plastic peripherals, Nintendo needs to KISS (keep it simple stupid). If Nintendo took the time to address these issues, they'll be fine in no time.

Not every company has to be just like Apple you know. Oh, wait, they do, because Apple is the god and we must all be like them. :rolleyes:
 
Cool. I'd so buy Mario and Zelda!!! Bring em cause I'm never buying a Wii again
 
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Nintendo will NEVER make games for iPhone. NEVER. I guarantee it. 3DS Is new. Wii is old. 3DS will get more games, the Wii U is set to release next year. Nintendo makes the most money out of all of the video gaming companies.
 
@Lighty - There was a lot more to what he said than "they should be more like Apple". I don't agree with all of it, but he made some good points.

For me what it comes down to is this - I carry my iPhone in my pocket all the time and it plays great games, I'm not going to carry a standalone gaming system too. How many people are like me? Especially in the "casual gamer" segment Nintendo is so keen on!
 
If Nintendo ported their 8-bit games to the iPhone for a buck each, they'd sell millions upon millions of them for games they already have competed and are doing nothing for them at this point. They are not smart for not taking advantage of this. I'd buy a ton of them myself. Super Mario Bros.? Sold. Legend of Zelda? Sold. Metroid, ice hockey? Sold. Sold.
 
A combination of all of the following hurt Nintendo.

1) Ugly Hardware - If Apple has taught us anything it's that design sells. Apple's products are sleek, sexy and functional. Nintendo tried copying the feel of Apple products with the white, minimalist style of the Wii and DS-line. The problem is they choose to be inspired by late 90's Apple instead of modern day Apple. The Wii and DS up close look like the cheap, bulky, plastic products they are.

2) Sucky Software - Nintendo controls both the hardware and software of their devices, they should work together in harmony. Instead we have half baked features and services that don't work well together, work well sometimes, or don't work at all. Their eStore is a joke and friend codes is a debacle. Why bother spending precious resources on the gimmicky 3D low res camera on the 3DS that no one will use on a regular basis when you could build out the proper infrastructure for a great eStore and online gaming. Why am I calibrating a Wiimote, what is this, 1996? Why does the 3DS still use a stylus?

3) No infrastructure - Sony learnt their lesson the hard way with the PS2 non-existent online network. Microsoft launched the Xbox 360 with a mature Xbox live leaving the PS3 to play catch up. Up to this day they are still trying to match Microsoft feature for feature. It takes a long time to build a fast, stable network. They should have jumped on that bandwagon 3 generations ago. The big tech buzzword nowadays is "cloud computing", Apple being the most successful, Sony and Microsoft and getting their. Point is, they are generating extra revenue by offering services like movies, music, game packs, DLC and more. It's not enough just selling games, where are the services to keep gamers playing those games. Pokemon would make a killing in DLC sales.

4) Casual gaming debacle - Nintendo is paying the ultimate cost of going after the casual market. I guess their mommy never told them to never leave what you have for what you don't have. The casual gamer might outnumber the hardcore gamer, but they are also very fickle. They will run out and buy the newest gizmos if it's priced right or looks cool enough but they seldom come for seconds or thirds or fourths. Nintendo all but abandoned the people that gave them guaranteed money with lackluster, sporadic hardcore games to focus on Wii Sports and various other crapware. The truth is, a lot of hardware was flying off the shelves, but no one was buying games. The casual market was more than happy with Wii Sports, while hardcore gamers starved.

5) No HD/HDMI - Yep, this gets it's own bullet point. How on earth could you release a system with no HD or HDMI support? Sure tube TV's were still in use back when the Wii first came out, but they were already well on their way out. If the Wii support HD gaming, it would still be relevant. Everyone and their mother has an HD TV now, tube TVs are officially extinct as in, not being made anymore. Have you ever seen an SD game running on an HD TV? One word... terrible.

6) Same old, same old - The Wii U and the 3DS feel a continuation of the gimmickry. The Wii U has a huge controller that is a not quite tablet, not quite handheld potential debacle. While the 3DS is nothing more than a bigger, uglier version of the DS featuring 3D, a far more polarizing feature than a crisp, high pixel HD screen. One might argue that the PS Vita is a souped up PSP, at least Sony covered all the bases and future proofed the thing with a capacitive touch screen, buttons when you need them, and the all important 2nd analog stick. It's packed to the gills with great features and can easily cater to both the hardcore and casual markets.

7) To risk, or not to risk - Granted Nintendo takes on huge risks with underpowered hardware that uses some gimmickry to stand out, but they play it too safe in their software. There is no need for a Nintendo rumor site, because everybody knows their next game will be a Zelda, a Mario, a Metroid that is exactly the same as the last. They have strong franchises, but enough with the milking, gamers are getting disillusioned. Where are the new IP's, where is the new gameplay that takes existing franchises to the next level.

8) App Store with a twist - At this point in time all the major players need to have an app store, and I'm not talking about a general purpose app store like Apple, but a specialized app store with full featured games, old-school catalog games, bite-sized games, episodic content, DLC, demos, and apps that lean toward gamer centric use. This app store has to have a twist, a well thought out, well implemented social component so people can easily meet new friends and like minded gamers, kinda like Facebook but without the monthly privacy issues, and friend codes can go bye-bye too. They can still use physical media, to keep trade-in gamers happy, but give gamers the choice of physical media or download. There is a huge market for this, just look at the top sellers on Apple's store, they are all games.

Nintendo doesn't need to be a third party publisher to thrive. They need nicely designed, sleek, future-proof hardware with fully-functional, easy to use software that is not only good at doing multiple things, but doing them well. They need a library of fantastic, innovative, full-featured games, old-school catalog games, bite-sized games and new IP. They need some kind of app store with solid social features to build a community around, and the infrastructure to support online play and services. They need to put more effort in taking care of their base, the hardcore gamer who will spend the money, while still addressing the casual crowd. They need to spend those R&D dollars wisely, the era of the attachment is over. People no longer have space in their homes for a million crappy plastic peripherals, Nintendo needs to KISS (keep it simple stupid). If Nintendo took the time to address these issues, they'll be fine in no time.

Replying to an old post, yes.

1. I doubt that Nintendo was inspired by Apple. And ugly? Well, I suppose that's a matter of opinion; I completely disagree.

2. Friend codes are still stupid, yes. However, the eShop has come a long way, and you can now play high-rated DSiWare titles (Shantae, Mighty Milky Way, etc), along with good 3D remakes of classic games. Combine that with Game Boy and Game Boy Color games (and even more platforms in the future, already confirmed), and it's undeniable that the eShop is perfectly fine. And all of the software that came with my 3DS and Wii works fine; I don't what your problem is. Calibrating a Wii Remote takes five seconds.

3. Eh, last time I checked you could take Wii, DS, and 3DS games online. Lack of "achievements" is somewhat bad, and maybe DLC would be nice, but a lot of gamers don't care about that; they just want to play games, and they CAN play them online.

4. There are an abundance of long, challenging hardcore games for Nintendo systems. You just have to ignore the shovelware. Don't go along with what the 360/PS3 fanboys always say, although perhaps you one of themNot accusing, though.

5. Yeah, no HD. Oh, no. But if you look around, you would notice that Super Mario Galaxy 2 and Kirby's Epic Yarn are visually stunning, along with other epic-looking games. Sure, the graphics aren't realistic, although "realistic graphics" end up being ugly-as-hell textures. The Wii U will have HD.

6. That's funny. I guess people love gimmicks because the DS and Wii have historically flown off the shelves and still continue to show good sales. Because they're good game experiences. Calling them gimmicks is old. As for the Vita, it actually is a souped up PSP. Not that that's a bad thing; I want one.

7. They release games from beloved, fun series ohhhhnoooooo.

8. Sounds good, actually.

And then you go on to say what they need, except that what you say they need is what they already have, with the exception of your dream App Store.
 
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The new Wii U that's coming out next year is going to change stuff about the old Wii. It will be for hardcore gamers as well.
 
The new Wii U that's coming out next year is going to change stuff about the old Wii. It will be for hardcore gamers as well.

A console released in 2012 with the power of the PS3 or XBox 360 is not for hardcore gamers.

As for the 3DS, I don't have room in my pocket for that and an iPhone. Well, I do, but it's unconfortable. JUST LET ME HAVE POKÉMON ON MY IPHONE YOU BUGGERS!
 
A console released in 2012 with the power of the PS3 or XBox 360 is not for hardcore gamers.

As for the 3DS, I don't have room in my pocket for that and an iPhone. Well, I do, but it's unconfortable. JUST LET ME HAVE POKÉMON ON MY IPHONE YOU BUGGERS!

Sega hasn't done so well with doing software only (not nearly as well as Nintendo)...
 
Sega hasn't done so well with doing software only (not nearly as well as Nintendo)...

Perhaps so, but

i) Saga's franchises weren't as good as Nintendo's
ii) Nintendo did well with the Wii and DS because they were very different, and cheap, so non-hardcore types bought them. Will those non-hardcore types buy a Wii-U when they already have a Wii (and have probably noticed how little they use it), or a 3DS when they already have a DS sat at home and a smartphone in their pocket?
iii) I'm not really bothered how well they do, I just want to play their games on my iPhone (even if they'd make less money software only I'm sure they'd stil make enough for the games division to be self sufficient).
 
Perhaps so, but

i) Saga's franchises weren't as good as Nintendo's
ii) Nintendo did well with the Wii and DS because they were very different, and cheap, so non-hardcore types bought them. Will those non-hardcore types buy a Wii-U when they already have a Wii (and have probably noticed how little they use it), or a 3DS when they already have a DS sat at home and a smartphone in their pocket?
iii) I'm not really bothered how well they do, I just want to play their games on my iPhone (even if they'd make less money software only I'm sure they'd stil make enough for the games division to be self sufficient).

i) Not sure if that is true (no real proof)
ii) So it wasn't because the games were good.... (thus further negating point 1)
iii) All of Nintendo is the games division. That is all they do, if they fail at that they don't have a fallback like Sony & Microsoft
 
A console released in 2012 with the power of the PS3 or XBox 360 is not for hardcore gamers.

You forgot about the whole tablet controller interface.

If there's one commonality between Apple and Nintendo is that their innovations become widely adopted by the industry as a whole. Nintendo is constantly creating new control schemes that become standardized by their competitors (d-pad, shoulder buttons, analog stick, rumble, touchscreen, and motion controls)
 
i) Not sure if that is true (no real proof)
ii) So it wasn't because the games were good.... (thus further negating point 1)
iii) All of Nintendo is the games division. That is all they do, if they fail at that they don't have a fallback like Sony & Microsoft

i) Well, if we mean better from a game quality point of view then that's a matter of opinion. Better from a financial point of view, then the proof would be sales. Now that they release games for multiple platforms Sega have a bigger potential audience, so if their games are as good or better than Nintendo's then they should sell more.
ii) Point i was about how well they'd do as a software company alone, but no, now you mention it I don't think the Wii's success was about the quality of games, as I think a lot of people bought one, played with it for a month then left it to gather dust. There are more and better games for PS3 and XBox, which the hardcore gamers buy, while the rest don't buy very much.
iii) No it's not; Nintendo also, unlike Sony and MS, make money from hardware, so if they stop selling that that's a loss of income. My point was that even if they didn't make more money by selling for other platforms they'd still make enough money to keep making games.

----------

You forgot about the whole tablet controller interface.

If there's one commonality between Apple and Nintendo is that their innovations become widely adopted by the industry as a whole. Nintendo is constantly creating new control schemes that become standardized by their competitors (d-pad, shoulder buttons, analog stick, rumble, touchscreen, and motion controls)

I'm not forgetting about that, I just think it'll go the same way as the Wiimote - it'll sit unused while we keep using controllers. Yeah, Sony have copies the Wiimote, but do they ever get used?
 
Sony have opened their doors for android devices with playstation suite you'd imagine Nintendo are listening (or rather, watching).
 
Sony have opened their doors for android devices with playstation suite you'd imagine Nintendo are listening (or rather, watching).

I am interested in seeing if it will be more like PSP Portables, or full fledged PSP2 style games.
 
A console released in 2012 with the power of the PS3 or XBox 360 is not for hardcore gamers.

As for the 3DS, I don't have room in my pocket for that and an iPhone. Well, I do, but it's unconfortable. JUST LET ME HAVE POKÉMON ON MY IPHONE YOU BUGGERS!

Wii U is more powerful thatn PS3 and Xbox 360. It's also a next gen console meaning the PS3 and 360 will be outdated when it comes out. Meaning a lot of sales.

iPhone isn't really a gaming console.
 
Nintendo will NEVER make games for iPhone. NEVER. I guarantee it. 3DS Is new. Wii is old. 3DS will get more games, the Wii U is set to release next year. Nintendo makes the most money out of all of the video gaming companies.

I agree. Before the Wii, everyone used to say the same thing; that Nintendo should get out of the hardware business and license games on other platforms. The leadership there (even under Iwata) has said multiple times that the day they get out of the hardware business is the day they are out of the video game business.

Anything could happen of course, but it's almost a certainty that Nintendo games will never, ever, be on iOS or anything else.

Nintendo has been in this place before and they'll continue until they hit the success of the Wii again.
 
Sony have opened their doors for android devices with playstation suite you'd imagine Nintendo are listening (or rather, watching).

The difference is that the Xperia Play has physical controls. I don't care where Sony or whoever puts their wares, as long as physical controls are present to take advantage of. IMO they are vital for proper gaming.
 
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