Nintendo Switch proves Apple missed a perfect opportunity

macguy360

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Feb 23, 2011
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TLDR: Apple missed a perfect opportunity to make the iPad a phenomenal gaming device in addition to everything else it can do. Instead, other game companies have jumped in to fill the niche and Apple has already set down a road of freemium that is nearly impossible to reverse due to Pavlovian principles.

I have been strongly against the freemium model since it first appeared on iOS. I believe that when the iPad first came out, some of the best/most innovative games came out before freemium was a thing. Since the advent of freemium, it has been downhill and there are very few if any games that are considered full games on IOS. Game developers aren't even interested in releasing full games because very few people will spend $50 for a game on an iPad. The result of this Pavlovian "reinforcement" means that turning things around is nearly impossible.

Where does that leave us?

Nintendo literally develops an android based device similar in design with the difference being attachable/removeable controllers. From what early first hand reviewers are saying is that the device gets roughly 4-5 hours of battery life, is thicker than an iPad significantly and yet smaller screen. Games will be sold separately for roughly $50-60 each and the games coming out will be few and far between since Nintendo flopped big time with the Wii U and developers are slower to jumping on board to make games for the switch. However, the Switch is already sold out for preorders everywhere in the U.S. proving that Nintendo has done something right and people are interested.

What Apple could have done to beat Nintendo to the market
1. Get rid of freemium early on, promote quality games and create an expectation that console quality games will be developed for IOS rather than garbage games posing to be free that use research based psychology similar to what you see in casinos with micro transactions.
2. Design a console quality gaming control that is perfectly integrated with IOS and just works with every game requiring all game developers to use the controller when designing games.
3. Team up with big name game developers to put out high quality games like what Nintendo will be doing with the switch. Make IOS exclusives that can compete with Legend of Zelda etc.
 

Count Blah

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You could have had a nice integrated setup with the AppleTV as well. How cool would it have been to have the AppleTV be the hub of an interactive game with multiple people on the iDevices, having their own view of the game? Virtual card games, board games where you have a view of the items only you can see, picking plays in a madden type football setup, etc...

But Apple just doesn't want to do it. They have had many chances to do such, all the way back to PIPPIN
 

bensisko

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TLDR: Apple missed a perfect opportunity to make the iPad a phenomenal gaming device in addition to everything else it can do. Instead, other game companies have jumped in to fill the niche and Apple has already set down a road of freemium that is nearly impossible to reverse due to Pavlovian principles.

I have been strongly against the freemium model since it first appeared on iOS. I believe that when the iPad first came out, some of the best/most innovative games came out before freemium was a thing. Since the advent of freemium, it has been downhill and there are very few if any games that are considered full games on IOS. Game developers aren't even interested in releasing full games because very few people will spend $50 for a game on an iPad. The result of this Pavlovian "reinforcement" means that turning things around is nearly impossible.

Where does that leave us?

Nintendo literally develops an android based device similar in design with the difference being attachable/removeable controllers. From what early first hand reviewers are saying is that the device gets roughly 4-5 hours of battery life, is thicker than an iPad significantly and yet smaller screen. Games will be sold separately for roughly $50-60 each and the games coming out will be few and far between since Nintendo flopped big time with the Wii U and developers are slower to jumping on board to make games for the switch. However, the Switch is already sold out for preorders everywhere in the U.S. proving that Nintendo has done something right and people are interested.

What Apple could have done to beat Nintendo to the market
1. Get rid of freemium early on, promote quality games and create an expectation that console quality games will be developed for IOS rather than garbage games posing to be free that use research based psychology similar to what you see in casinos with micro transactions.
2. Design a console quality gaming control that is perfectly integrated with IOS and just works with every game requiring all game developers to use the controller when designing games.
3. Team up with big name game developers to put out high quality games like what Nintendo will be doing with the switch. Make IOS exclusives that can compete with Legend of Zelda etc.
I don't think the Switch is Android - I did a quick Google search and all I found about the Switch being Android is rumors from years ago which were shot down.

From the iPad's perspective, I don't disagree that Apple's App Store didn't exactly encourage developing quality games (or even other high cost apps - so it's hardly limited to gaming).

However, there's just not a chance that Apple would make the iPad a gaming device like you described. Yes, gaming is a component, but Apple wouldn't want the iPad to be viewed as "just a gaming device" - it's all about reputation.

The switch is JUST a gaming console, it's not a tablet. Nintendo can demand $50 a game because of Nintendo's reputation and background. Apple, nor their developers, would ever be able to hope to achieve that.
 
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steve23094

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It's a Game & Watch.

Wait to see if the Switch is a success. The gimmick is that it's a portable, right? So other than kids under the age of 10, who would be caught dead playing one in public? The embarrassment factor is important, it was a large part of the reason why Glass failed so miserably.

We had Glassholes, maybe we'll have Switch bitches.
 
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TheRealAlex

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Sep 2, 2015
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TLDR: Apple missed a perfect opportunity to make the iPad a phenomenal gaming device in addition to everything else it can do. Instead, other game companies have jumped in to fill the niche and Apple has already set down a road of freemium that is nearly impossible to reverse due to Pavlovian principles.

I have been strongly against the freemium model since it first appeared on iOS. I believe that when the iPad first came out, some of the best/most innovative games came out before freemium was a thing. Since the advent of freemium, it has been downhill and there are very few if any games that are considered full games on IOS. Game developers aren't even interested in releasing full games because very few people will spend $50 for a game on an iPad. The result of this Pavlovian "reinforcement" means that turning things around is nearly impossible.

Where does that leave us?

Nintendo literally develops an android based device similar in design with the difference being attachable/removeable controllers. From what early first hand reviewers are saying is that the device gets roughly 4-5 hours of battery life, is thicker than an iPad significantly and yet smaller screen. Games will be sold separately for roughly $50-60 each and the games coming out will be few and far between since Nintendo flopped big time with the Wii U and developers are slower to jumping on board to make games for the switch. However, the Switch is already sold out for preorders everywhere in the U.S. proving that Nintendo has done something right and people are interested.

What Apple could have done to beat Nintendo to the market
1. Get rid of freemium early on, promote quality games and create an expectation that console quality games will be developed for IOS rather than garbage games posing to be free that use research based psychology similar to what you see in casinos with micro transactions.
2. Design a console quality gaming control that is perfectly integrated with IOS and just works with every game requiring all game developers to use the controller when designing games.
3. Team up with big name game developers to put out high quality games like what Nintendo will be doing with the switch. Make IOS exclusives that can compete with Legend of Zelda etc.

I disagree. The Nintendo Switch is a Toy Period. The iPad and now iPad Pro is a Professional device on many levels. But I will keep this Gaming Focused.

Here are the issues.

#1. Price point Barrier of entry How much does an iPad Pro cost ? How much do iPad Games cost ? It's a high entry costs and a very low cost of games which don't last much.
#2. Behavior I'd pay $300 For a Nintendo Switch and $50 for a Game because it's gonna give me a lot of value.
#3. Profit. Very few people will pay $10 and no one will pay $50 for an iPad Game on top of that no Developer would spend millions to make one. It would have to be a 12+GB download to have enough content to warrant such a price and 12GB is precious space when there's no SD card slot.

So a Controller is Not what's needed that's readily available. Graphics and Power the iPad Pro is easily at Xbox 360 graphics capability and above. But it's Tough to render games at 2048x1536, When the Xbox 360 could do 720p and 1080p barely.

I'd like to see the Nintendo Switch render games at 2048x1536 resolution and see what it could handle or how fast its battery would drain.
 

Pakaku

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Aug 29, 2009
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It's a Game & Watch.

Wait to see if the Switch is a success. The gimmick is that it's a portable, right? So other than kids under the age of 10, who would be caught dead playing one in public? The embarrassment factor is important, it was a large part of the reason why Glass failed so miserably.

We had Glassholes, maybe we'll have Switch bitches.
Glass is 'embarassing' because you wear it. If the Switch is embarassing, then so is your iPhone and iPad. More so if you're playing games on it anyways. And don't forget those controllers for iOS, half of which end up holding the iPad in the same form-factor as a Switch with the controllers attached...
 
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steve23094

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Glass is 'embarassing' because you wear it. If the Switch is embarassing, then so is your iPhone and iPad. More so if you're playing games on it anyways. And don't forget those controllers for iOS, half of which end up holding the iPad in the same form-factor as a Switch with the controllers attached...
There is a big difference between a phone or tablet and an oversized Game & Watch. Most (but not all) of the time they're used for something other than games, whether it be social media, email, calls, watching videos and reading or web browsing. Come to think of it I have seen people playing on a PSP or Gameboy in public on incredibly rare occasions, but they have never been over the age of 18. I have never seen anybody using a controller with a phone or tablet. The Switch will never remotely approach the sales figures of phones or tablets and I don't think even Nintendo would consider them it's competition.

We'll see, but I predict the Switch won't be another Wii. Even still the Wii didn't make a long term impact on the industry that it's sales would have suggested. The innovation in control it brought isn't of interest anymore.
 
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sjleworthy

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the OP is looking at the ipad purely with gaming eyes. im so glad it isnt a premium gaming platform. havent played a game on ipad in months and months. i suspect Apple's target iPad audience are a little over 13 ;) (not dissing gaming in general i assure you)
 

joeblow7777

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Sep 7, 2010
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It's a Game & Watch.

Wait to see if the Switch is a success. The gimmick is that it's a portable, right? So other than kids under the age of 10, who would be caught dead playing one in public? The embarrassment factor is important, it was a large part of the reason why Glass failed so miserably.

We had Glassholes, maybe we'll have Switch bitches.
Since when is using a handheld gaming device in public embarrassing? :confused:
 
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steve23094

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Since when is using a handheld gaming device in public embarrassing? :confused:
If you're a child it's not, if you're an adult it is. Even if you like to play in public you have to concede that the older a person is the less likely they are going to be playing on a Gameboy, it's just something people grow out of. I suppose some people mature more slowly than others.

Let's just wait and see if the Switch becomes ubiquitous and wherever you turn you see adults playing on one. The portability is it's USP, otherwise they should have just made a normal console.
 
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macguy360

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the OP is looking at the ipad purely with gaming eyes. im so glad it isnt a premium gaming platform. havent played a game on ipad in months and months. i suspect Apple's target iPad audience are a little over 13 ;) (not dissing gaming in general i assure you)
You are making an assumption. You know what happens when you assume something?

Apple created the iPad to be a consumption device first, then it adapted to be a creative device as well. The uses of the iPad are many (watching shows/movies, using the web, doing work, creativity, and playing games). Spend 1 minute in the App Store and you will see that games have a LARGE presence in the App Store. Spend any time at all in public looking at people on their apple devices and you will see people play games on them as well.

My thread merely noted that Apple really missed the mark in terms of one aspect of the iPad, and it is proven with Nintendo jumping in to fill the niche. If the iPad was a capable device, Nintendo would have been more likely to just produce games for the iPad like the did with Pokémon go, but unfortunately the iPad is stuck with mostly freemium games because that is the path that Apple has decided to let the App Store go.
 

joeblow7777

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If you're a child it's not, if you're an adult it is. Even if you like to play in public you have to concede that the older a person is the less likely they are going to be playing on a Gameboy, it's just something people grow out of. I suppose some people mature more slowly than others.

Let's just wait and see if the Switch becomes ubiquitous and wherever you turn you see adults playing on one. The portability is it's USP, otherwise they should have just made a normal console.
The average age of a gamer today is around 35. I'm a 33 year old professional, and I feel no shame, nor do most people in my peer group, about playing games in public. I guess it depends on whom you associate with.

"When I became a man, I put aside childish things, including the fear of childishness."
C.S. Lewis
 

steve23094

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The average age of a gamer today is around 35. I'm a 33 year old professional, and I feel no shame, nor do most people in my peer group, about playing games in public. I guess it depends on whom you associate with.

"When I became a man, I put aside childish things, including the fear of childishness."
C.S. Lewis
It's true that some people have no shame.

A tablet and mobile phone are different market segments to consoles, and both are a different market segment to the Gameboy, PSP and Switch. They appeal to different age groups, although there is some overlap in the younger bracket.

The average age of a Gameboy player is 13. Do you want a lollipop with your Switch? :p
 
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joeblow7777

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It's true that some people have no shame.

A tablet and mobile phone are different market segments to consoles, and both are a different market segment to the Gameboy, PSP and Switch. They appeal to different age groups, although there is some overlap in the younger bracket.

The average age of a Gameboy player is 13. Do you want a lollipop with your Switch? :p
You're just making things up. The average 13 year old doesn't even know what a Gameboy is, since one hasn't been made in their lifetime!

You should do some actual research on gamer demographics rather than just stating stereotypes.
 
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steve23094

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You're just making things up. The average 13 year old doesn't even know what a Gameboy is, since one hasn't been made in their lifetime!

You should do some actual research on gamer demographics rather than just stating stereotypes.
Nintendo DS or 3D or whatever it's called now, it's all the same thing.
 
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Pakaku

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Nintendo DS or 3D or whatever it's called now, it's all the same thing.
Sounds like you might be in the older age range who never grew up with videogame consoles, or are hanging out with those kinds of people. Especially since you keep calling every portable console you see a "Game & Watch".

Most 20-30 year-olds these days are people who grew up with Game Boys and other portable consoles, so I wouldn't be surprised if there will be more Switches out in public in the hands of 'older' people, or at least "in public" in terms of the bus or on a lunch break.
 
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macguy360

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Easier said than done.
For what has been the wealthiest company on the planet with more money than entire countries, I am pretty sure they would be able to work out some deals with game companies.

And for a company with devices with more distribution than any console ever made (iPads vs consoles), the opportunity for profit is beyond ample.
 

Chupa Chupa

macrumors G5
Jul 16, 2002
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The Switch is a game console. That's it. That is not what the iPad is or what Apple wants it to be in the future. If anything the opportunity Apple is missing is to make the iPad a legit computer alternative. Right now, IMHO, it's a companion. (Own 3 of them -- a 9.7 Pro, and mini 4, and a mini 2. Each has an integral place in my life, so I'm not a basher).

You are correct people won't pay $50 for an iPad game. But I'm willing to bet the majority of iPad users wouldn't pay $50 for a game period. We aren't 18 anymore. We have real expenses and no time for games. I have a PS4 that to-date is a real expensive Amazon TV and BD player. The game it was bundled with is still sealed. OTOH we will pay $50 for an app that improves productivity. If Office --- or even just Word -- was available for the iPad as a $125 stand-alone I'd buy in in a second (I won't pay for a subscription).

Back in the mid-00's when Apple made a real push to sell Macs in the face of dwindling software it pushed out the iLife suite, Logic, Aperture, DVD Studio Pro, etc. That did wonders for the platform and brought it back to life. Apple should copy itself with the iPad and at a minimum revise Pages to be better than Office. Right now it's 100% useless for anyone other than a 1st grader learning how to write simple paragraphs. Also include something more than a paltry 5GB of iCloud storage if they are going to make so much functionality dependent on it. That cheeses off peopel too at the prices they ask for their hardware. Minimum give people 5GB for every Apple device they own, not per iCloud acct, and make the data good for as long as the device is registered to the customers account.
 

Appleaker

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The iPad is already used as a gaming device for many and I don't think Apple would ever do the Swich style device, as it'd be a clunky solution in their mind. It also wouldn't work because they have the Apple TV, a similar situation which Apple having Macs and iPads.
 

macguy360

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Original poster
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The Switch is a game console. That's it. That is not what the iPad is or what Apple wants it to be in the future. If anything the opportunity Apple is missing is to make the iPad a legit computer alternative. Right now, IMHO, it's a companion. (Own 3 of them -- a 9.7 Pro, and mini 4, and a mini 2. Each has an integral place in my life, so I'm not a basher).

You are correct people won't pay $50 for an iPad game. But I'm willing to bet the majority of iPad users wouldn't pay $50 for a game period. We aren't 18 anymore. We have real expenses and no time for games. I have a PS4 that to-date is a real expensive Amazon TV and BD player. The game it was bundled with is still sealed. OTOH we will pay $50 for an app that improves productivity. If Office --- or even just Word -- was available for the iPad as a $125 stand-alone I'd buy in in a second (I won't pay for a subscription).

Back in the mid-00's when Apple made a real push to sell Macs in the face of dwindling software it pushed out the iLife suite, Logic, Aperture, DVD Studio Pro, etc. That did wonders for the platform and brought it back to life. Apple should copy itself with the iPad and at a minimum revise Pages to be better than Office. Right now it's 100% useless for anyone other than a 1st grader learning how to write simple paragraphs. Also include something more than a paltry 5GB of iCloud storage if they are going to make so much functionality dependent on it. That cheeses off peopel too at the prices they ask for their hardware. Minimum give people 5GB for every Apple device they own, not per iCloud acct, and make the data good for as long as the device is registered to the customers account.
Oh so you speak for Apple? You know what the purpose behind their creation of the IPad and what they want it to be? Well thank you for gracing us with your presence. Can you please tell everyone here what your plans are for Apple for the next 5 years? No? Well then lets stick to facts and not put our own beliefs on Apple as if we have any idea what Apple's intentions are.

Fact of the matter is that Apple missed a great opportunity in the gaming sector which is being realized by Nintendo. If you represent Apple, then surely speak up as to what their intentions are, if not then keep it to yourself.
[doublepost=1487967043][/doublepost]
The iPad is already used as a gaming device for many and I don't think Apple would ever do the Swich style device, as it'd be a clunky solution in their mind. It also wouldn't work because they have the Apple TV, a similar situation which Apple having Macs and iPads.
Same goes for you. You are taking a fact based discussion and putting your own beliefs in there thus negating any reasonable discussion.
 

rwp

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Oct 13, 2015
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Nintendo should stop making consoles, and just release all of their games for iOS and Android. Or Apple should buy them and release all of their games for iOS exclusively. :)
 

Chupa Chupa

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Jul 16, 2002
14,834
7,394
Oh so you speak for Apple? You know what the purpose behind their creation of the IPad and what they want it to be? Well thank you for gracing us with your presence. Can you please tell everyone here what your plans are for Apple for the next 5 years? No? Well then lets stick to facts and not put our own beliefs on Apple as if we have any idea what Apple's intentions are.

Fact of the matter is that Apple missed a great opportunity in the gaming sector which is being realized by Nintendo. If you represent Apple, then surely speak up as to what their intentions are, if not then keep it to yourself.
[doublepost=1487967043][/doublepost]
Look, don't have a cow. You stated your opinon and I gave you mine. There is no reason to start hurling personal invective as you did. I did not attack you, just your argument.

Apple has a 7 year history of marketing the iPad. Those are facts. I based that history on my comments. I don't speak for Apple obviously. I am intelligent enough to make certain conclusions based on how Apple has marketed the iPad and iPad Apps during that time period.

The ironic think about your comments above is that your original post contained no facts as to why Apple missed the boat. How could it -- the Switch isn't even on sale yet. But even with iPads in a slump Apple sells about 40 million units per year. It took Sony 2.5 years to tell that many PS4. In 6 generations of the GameBoy Nintendo sold 200 million combined.
So I fail to see your argument that the iPad would be more successful as a game console.
 

steve23094

macrumors 68030
Apr 23, 2013
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1,489
Oh so you speak for Apple? You know what the purpose behind their creation of the IPad and what they want it to be? Well thank you for gracing us with your presence. Can you please tell everyone here what your plans are for Apple for the next 5 years? No? Well then lets stick to facts and not put our own beliefs on Apple as if we have any idea what Apple's intentions are.

Fact of the matter is that Apple missed a great opportunity in the gaming sector which is being realized by Nintendo. If you represent Apple, then surely speak up as to what their intentions are, if not then keep it to yourself.
[doublepost=1487967043][/doublepost]

Same goes for you. You are taking a fact based discussion and putting your own beliefs in there thus negating any reasonable discussion.
There is considerable hypocrisy in these comments. Nor does your post contain any facts, merely opinion too. The difference between you and the posters you're berating is that they understand they're in a public forum and although they disagree with you they know they don't have the right to tell you to 'keep it to yourself'.

Opinion highlighted in bold.
TLDR: Apple missed a perfect opportunity to make the iPad a phenomenal gaming device in addition to everything else it can do. Instead, other game companies have jumped in to fill the niche and Apple has already set down a road of freemium that is nearly impossible to reverse due to Pavlovian principles.

I have been strongly against the freemium model since it first appeared on iOS. I believe that when the iPad first came out, some of the best/most innovative games came out before freemium was a thing. Since the advent of freemium, it has been downhill and there are very few if any games that are considered full games on IOS. Game developers aren't even interested in releasing full games because very few people will spend $50 for a game on an iPad. The result of this Pavlovian "reinforcement" means that turning things around is nearly impossible.

Where does that leave us?

Nintendo literally develops an android based device similar in design with the difference being attachable/removeable controllers. From what early first hand reviewers are saying is that the device gets roughly 4-5 hours of battery life, is thicker than an iPad significantly and yet smaller screen. Games will be sold separately for roughly $50-60 each and the games coming out will be few and far between since Nintendo flopped big time with the Wii U and developers are slower to jumping on board to make games for the switch. However, the Switch is already sold out for preorders everywhere in the U.S. proving that Nintendo has done something right and people are interested.

What Apple could have done to beat Nintendo to the market
1. Get rid of freemium early on, promote quality games and create an expectation that console quality games will be developed for IOS rather than garbage games posing to be free that use research based psychology similar to what you see in casinos with micro transactions.
2. Design a console quality gaming control that is perfectly integrated with IOS and just works with every game requiring all game developers to use the controller when designing games.
3. Team up with big name game developers to put out high quality games like what Nintendo will be doing with the switch. Make IOS exclusives that can compete with Legend of Zelda etc.
 
Last edited:

Marshall73

macrumors 68000
Apr 20, 2015
1,671
1,421
TLDR: Apple missed a perfect opportunity to make the iPad a phenomenal gaming device in addition to everything else it can do. Instead, other game companies have jumped in to fill the niche and Apple has already set down a road of freemium that is nearly impossible to reverse due to Pavlovian principles.

I have been strongly against the freemium model since it first appeared on iOS. I believe that when the iPad first came out, some of the best/most innovative games came out before freemium was a thing. Since the advent of freemium, it has been downhill and there are very few if any games that are considered full games on IOS. Game developers aren't even interested in releasing full games because very few people will spend $50 for a game on an iPad. The result of this Pavlovian "reinforcement" means that turning things around is nearly impossible.

Where does that leave us?

Nintendo literally develops an android based device similar in design with the difference being attachable/removeable controllers. From what early first hand reviewers are saying is that the device gets roughly 4-5 hours of battery life, is thicker than an iPad significantly and yet smaller screen. Games will be sold separately for roughly $50-60 each and the games coming out will be few and far between since Nintendo flopped big time with the Wii U and developers are slower to jumping on board to make games for the switch. However, the Switch is already sold out for preorders everywhere in the U.S. proving that Nintendo has done something right and people are interested.

What Apple could have done to beat Nintendo to the market
1. Get rid of freemium early on, promote quality games and create an expectation that console quality games will be developed for IOS rather than garbage games posing to be free that use research based psychology similar to what you see in casinos with micro transactions.
2. Design a console quality gaming control that is perfectly integrated with IOS and just works with every game requiring all game developers to use the controller when designing games.
3. Team up with big name game developers to put out high quality games like what Nintendo will be doing with the switch. Make IOS exclusives that can compete with Legend of Zelda etc.
Apple make more money with iPads and iPhones, they sell vastly more hardware at a greater profit than Nintendo do, they also push the technological envelope with CPU and GPU whereas Nintendo repeatedly ship old tech (old cpu/gpu designs low quality screens etc) in-between other console makers hardware generations as they cannot compete out of the gate hardware wise. Nintendo have a large following of fans who love buying and re-buying the same old titles and there is really no reason for Apple to push into that market. Expect third party support for the switch to die off after 6 months as with previous hardware.
 
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