nMP power supply

Discussion in 'Mac Pro' started by Bazu, Dec 12, 2013.

  1. Bazu macrumors regular

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    #1
    Hi,

    Will nMP have external power supply like some old Cinema Displays or they somehow packed it into the can?
     
  2. TyPod macrumors 68000

    TyPod

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    And Yourself?
    #2
    Looking at Apple's website i'm assuming there won't be an external power supply. I feel like that would be mentioned in "what's in the box" if there was one.
     

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  3. DanielCoffey macrumors 65816

    DanielCoffey

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    #3
    And if you look at the back of the nMP you can see the power socket.
     
  4. Bazu thread starter macrumors regular

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    #4
    I was looking at inside pictures and couldn't see space where they'd fit 400+W power supply. Just 85W of my rMBP is big enough that I can't see where they'd fit it :).
     
  5. haravikk macrumors 65816

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    #5
    It must in the bottom of the unit as that's really the only space left, and the only part they don't show an exploded view of.

    Apple have managed to do custom PSU designs in the past, and with the circular profile they should have plenty of space to let components cool passively.

    I have a Seasonic Platinum Series Fanless 460W PSU, which is the same rating of the Mac Pro PSU (at least for the models we have details for) and flattened out in a circular shape, with some of the dead space removed, the volume ought to be pretty similar.

    With such tiny clearances in that area of the case I imagine the PSU has some kind of triangular circuit board sitting on top with a connection into the PSU, and then the daughterboards connect directly into that (i.e - probably no wires inside the case at all except maybe for the fan connector).

    But like you say, we can't see it at all so we can only speculate, but I do think there should be room with the PSU components inside the grille around the bottom of the case, so that the top fan pulls air in over them before it goes up through the heatsink and out of the case again.
     
  6. Cubemmal macrumors 6502a

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    #6
    The power supply occupies the space between the external I/O sockets and the CPU. Not a lot of space there, I wonder how they manage to put a 400W supply plus all the I/O plumbing in it. Cooling is also accomplished via the main fan which pulls air through the assembly, but surely at a lower rate than through the heat sink.
     
  7. flat five, Dec 13, 2013
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2013

    flat five macrumors 601

    flat five

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    #7
    it's right here (top view).. as cubemmal said-- in between the cpu and the i/o panel..

    so far, it's the only place i've seen a wire.. also notice more user friendly screws-- the two on top of the cage as well as the ones on the psu itself

    [​IMG]
     
  8. Cubemmal macrumors 6502a

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    #8
    The wiring between the sub assemblies appears to route through the bottom of the unit. I believe there is a PC board on the bottom which is mainly sockets for the three daughterboards (GPU + CPU) and probably a socket for the PSU + I/O.
     
  9. flat five macrumors 601

    flat five

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    #9
    yeah.. it's neat like that.. it appears as if some of the power feeding is happening through the boards/sockets as opposed to wires.. the gpus have two screws labeled "12v and GND" at the top so i assume that's where their power is coming in from.. but the the ssd is on the gpu and i think it's getting power as well as voltage conversion from the gpu board itself.
     
  10. Cubemmal macrumors 6502a

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    #10
    That would be very unusual to route +12V through a securing screw, those almost always are simply ground connections. Also I think the boards would need more than just a 12V rail, but theoretically if it did they could step it down on the board itself. Where do you see the 12V indication, do you have a picture?
     
  11. flat five macrumors 601

    flat five

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    #11
    true.. i guess that's basically a short circuit just waiting to happen. ⚡️

    (though these two screws don't seem to be a securing screw so much.. or- there aren't any holes in the thermal core up there.. just the 4 in the middle of the gpu.. there is a larger, finger sized hole in the core in general are of these two screws)


    i'm on my way out soon so i don't have much time to find the links to the idea about 12v only psu but some other manufactures (fujitsu iirc) are already doing it.

    here's the pic showing 12v & GND labels on (or near) those two screws.

    [​IMG]
     
  12. Cubemmal macrumors 6502a

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    #12
    Thanks - that's pretty clear. And I was wondering why they put two (apparent) securing screws so close together. On the 12V it's common for Atom boards to only take 12V - I have a few boards like that that just need a 12V wall wart supply. All it does is mean the step down power supply is on the motherboard somewhere, which throws off heat too. The GPU needs what - 1.2V or something? At 130W approximately? That's a fair bit of waste heat stepped down from a 12V rail and voltage regulator.

    Well, more unusualness from Apple. I wonder how the connect on the other side, that's heat sink I believe. I would have thought plumbing the power through the bottom daughter board would be the way to go.

    By the way all the updated video and pictures make it clear that the flash is encased in an aluminum cover and there is clearly no second socket. I wonder why they covered it, cooling?
     
  13. flat five macrumors 601

    flat five

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    #13
    on a bus- on a phone.. but referring to the last paragraph.
    I've more or less given up on trying to figure out if the ssd will be enclosed or not. I've seen renders which were made prior to wwdc which shows it enclosed.. photographs showing both ways.. then more renders showing both ways.

    another thing that I've seen a few different versions of is the ram access button (sort of visible at top-right in the cropped pic I posted earlier).. I've seen it in round 'button' form, empty, as well as a latch looking thing with an upwards pointing arrow on it..
    so while I think the main base design has been dealt with already, it seems as if a few minor details have still been worked on over the past few months.
     
  14. Cubemmal macrumors 6502a

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    #14
    Look at the manufacturing line video Apple put out, and stop at around 1:40 IIRC. There is a nMP at a manufacturing workstation and it's slowly turning around and has a closeup of the GPU's. You can clearly see that one GPU has the covered flash, the other has no socket. This is a shot taken from the manufacturing line, I've done engineering for such lines and recognize the equipment and manufacturers, so there's nothing faked about these shots. Those computers are ones that will be sold. The renders and pictures without the cover are all older, the newer ones all showed it so obviously it was a later addition. Or perhaps they left it off the older ones to clearly show people where the flash was.

    So we can definitively say that the flash will have a cover and there is no socket for the second flash. These production lines don't do runs and throw the machines away, unless they are bad or really out of date they are sold.

    I haven't noticed that, interesting.

    Very typical for any new product or release.
     
  15. flat five macrumors 601

    flat five

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    #15
    I was thinking the ones in the manufacturing videos were the training models and not the true product.

    or maybe it's more 'I was wishful thinking..." :) because yeah, I did notice there was no second ssd socket shown in the video.

    there is another reason (possibly less stretched reasoning) why I don't think those are actual production models.. that being we can't tell if those are d300s, 500, or d700s.. I assume we'll see some type of labeling which is visible on the cards once the shell is removed-- without the need to 'about this mac...' or by memorizing the layout of different capacitors etc in order to distinguish a difference between GPUs.
     
  16. Cubemmal macrumors 6502a

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    #16
    Typically they do test runs to work the bugs through the system, sometimes those machines are allocated for internal use for engineering mostly - testing, QA teams, development, etc, but they are sold too if they are good. There aren't usually runs for training, because production people are coming and going all the time anyhow. Regardless they all look just like experienced folks do, I'm not seeing any inexperience and the line looks comfortably settled in.

    I'd be really surprised if those weren't shipping versions.

    Those chips throw off a lot of heat, I'd be surprised if they put any labeling on them. Also why put dressing on the inside? The big show off with this is the perfectly smooth cylinder. Apple didn't put any internal dressing on the old Mac Pro, just that it looked good and was functional.

    Regardless that kind of stuff is always the last step, so we really don't know if they are or not.
     
  17. flat five macrumors 601

    flat five

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    #17
    oh.. i was talking about the gpus having labels on them.. not the ssd.. and i just assume the gpus will have some sort of branding/identifier/etc on them besides what we've seen so far. (if not, there are going to be approx 500 threads here asking "how can i tell which gpu i have?)..

    i would imagine that labeling, if it happens, will occur when amd makes them and i don't see why they'd leave it up to apple to do it as a last step..
     
  18. Nugget macrumors 65816

    Nugget

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    #18
    The actual GPU chips will not be visible from the ouside of the daughterboard, since they will necessarily be inward-facing in order to mate with the heatsink. So even if AMD did label the chip it wouldn't be of any use to the end user.

    But, really, it's all moot. The way a user can tell which GPU they have is simple. "About This Mac" / 'More Info..."
     
  19. Cubemmal macrumors 6502a

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    #19
    Right, I doubt there'll be any labeling.
     
  20. flat five, Dec 13, 2013
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2013

    flat five macrumors 601

    flat five

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    #20
    the chips/vram appear to be soldered to the board though.. i don't know, i'm just saying the way it is now..

    when someone says 'gpu', they're talking about the board, the vram, and the processor.. and it's usually labeled (albeit on the outer casing)**

    i doubt a d300 is going to look identical to a d700 anyway.. there will more likely than not be some visual cues (ie- d300 has 2 capacitors in that area and d700 has 4.. etc)..

    anyway, i can't think of a reason why they wouldn't label them by model name.. and can only think of reasons why they should label them.. do you see what i'm saying?



    **[EDIT]- hmm yeah.. i guess they're usually branded and not necessarily labeled as their specific model.
     
  21. flat five macrumors 601

    flat five

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    #21
    ..but if that video is showing real production models being made then that's cool.. just kind of a bummer that they were making finished/ready-to-sell nMPs 2-3 months ago but are just sitting on them instead of selling them.
    ;)
     
  22. flat five, Dec 13, 2013
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2013

    flat five macrumors 601

    flat five

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    #22
    too hard to really tell at this point.. there are some dead ends with the available pictures and one thing that has zero clues (or- i personally haven't read the clues if they're there) is how the fan is getting power.. maybe those are output holes in the gpu and they go to the fan? i don't even believe myself when saying that but there you have it anyway :)


    i would think the fan controls would be on the motherboard but i don't even know if any of these boards are to be considered motherboards- at least in the traditional sense.

    maybe not even cooling so much as a secondary barrier to someone's hand.. the ssd is pretty close to the shell (like less than ½").. i've never felt a powered up ssd but if they get hot then they could probably require some heat shielding here.
     
  23. VirtualRain macrumors 603

    VirtualRain

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    #23
    I think if you wait a few minutes between posts, you can have a conversation with yourself :p

    ----------

    It goes without saying that the teardown of this beast is going to be one of the most anticipated reveals ever. :)
     
  24. Gav Mack macrumors 68020

    Gav Mack

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    #24
    I'm really looking forward to ifixit taking this to bits. Simply from a physics/thermodynamics standpoint this design for a core of a computer is pretty ingenious and the possibility of larger PSU's being fitted to D700 models has certainly perked my interest in how they've actually done it.
     
  25. flat five macrumors 601

    flat five

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    #25
    lucky you, you'll probably get a few articles related specifically towards the thermodynamics..

    the ifixit teardown is going to be interesting and telling (and surely most immediate) but i think we'll see a lot more analysis on specific features from other sources as well.

    hopefully :)
     

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