nMP Pricing Speculation

Discussion in 'Mac Pro' started by Michael73, Oct 28, 2013.

  1. Michael73 macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2007
    #1
    Given what already know about pricing of the two models and BTO pricing for the iMac, rMBP for things like increasing size of SSDs, anyone ready to speculate pricing for the difference options?

    It seems to me there's really only 4 hardware variables: number of cores (4, 6, 8 or 12), amount of RAM (12, 16, 32 or 64) , GPU (d300, d 500 or d700) and SSD size (256, 512 or 1TB).

    If the bottom end is $2999 (4 core, 12GB RAM, d300 & 256GB) what is the up charge for increasing each component to each succeeding level?
     
  2. Umbongo macrumors 601

    Umbongo

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2006
    Location:
    England
    #2
    6-core: $400-500
    8-core: $1,500-$2,000
    12-core: $2,500-$3,000

    512GB: $300
    1TB: $800

    D500s: $500-600
    D700s: *shrug*

    RAM: More than it costs elsewhere.
     
  3. Michael73 thread starter macrumors 65816

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    #3
    We know the $3999 version goes from 4 to 6 cores, has the d500 and increases RAM from 12GB to 16GB (SSD storage size remains the same).

    FWIW, my guesses are:

    6-core: $450
    8-core: $750
    12-core: $1250

    512GB: $300
    1TB: $800

    D500s: $400
    D700s: $1000

    12GB (3 x 4GB): Incl.
    16GB (4 x 4GB): $150
    32GB (4 x 8GB): $750
    64GB (4 x 16GB): $1500
     
  4. CptSky macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2013
    #4
    Would be nice for the 12-core, but I doubt, knowing that the 12-core CPU's recommended price by Intel is 2500$... The original quad-core is only 300$. I know Apple can have better prices, but pricing the CPU at 1500$ (including the previous price of the quad version) ?

    http://ark.intel.com/products/75779/Intel-Xeon-Processor-E5-1620-v2-10M-Cache-3_70-GHz
    http://ark.intel.com/products/75780/Intel-Xeon-Processor-E5-1650-v2-12M-Cache-3_50-GHz
    http://ark.intel.com/products/75283/Intel-Xeon-Processor-E5-2697-v2-30M-Cache-2_70-GHz

    N.B. I can't find a Xeon E5 v2 with 8 cores @ 3.00 GHz and 25 MB. Custom version or unreleased version ?
     
  5. Umbongo macrumors 601

    Umbongo

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2006
    Location:
    England
    #5
    Apple rarely do $x50 upgrades. Look at their options on the other Macs. As CptSky said, the CPUs are way more than you are suggesting.

    ----------

    It's not on the lists, just put the model name in to search: E5-1680 V2 (needs the space).
     
  6. Michael73 thread starter macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2007
    #6
    Ok, you're right…not much out there in the way of +$50 step increments and I also did some more investigating. From both the iMac and rMBP perspective there is a +$500 jump from a 512GB to 1TB . The iMac also has a +$300 from a 256GB to $512GB. We'll probably see something similar in the nMP.

    On the iMac the base model comes with 2 x 4GB DIMMS which if you bump to the the 16GB option, the base model says "Subtract $200". Using the very loose guess I'm going to say 16GB is +$200, +$800 for 32GB and +$1600 for 64GB.

    With regards to the CPU pricing and the links you sent, there's only a $289 difference between 4 & 6 but a monster jump of $2031 from 6 to 12. I'm guessing that Apple will cut a better deal on the 4 and 6 core processors because of higher volumes with 8 and 12 core processor sales falling off pretty fast. As a result, I'm thinking +$500 for 6 core, +$1000 for 8 core and +$2200 for 12 core.

    Still not sure about the Firepro card pricing...:confused:
     
  7. Umbongo macrumors 601

    Umbongo

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    England
    #7
    There isn't room for Apple to cut deals like you suggest on the CPUs. Apple want to make more money on less common choices. They aren't trying to entice anyone to buy them.
     
  8. Michael73 thread starter macrumors 65816

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    Feb 27, 2007
    #9
    I have to believe that cost versus performance is on an asymptotic curve. Very, very few people will be in an environment where a maxed out nMP will produce enough increased performance (over a lower spec one) to justify a $14k price tag.
     
  9. Cisco_Kid macrumors 6502

    Cisco_Kid

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2005
    Location:
    British Columbia
    #10
    That article is ridiculous, there is no way the new one will be over $6 maxed out.

    Edit / monitors not included.
     
  10. spaz8 macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2007
    #11
    Those guesses are about what I was thinking too. $5K for an 8 core, and $6200 for the 12.. with the otherwise 6-core specs. You can probably get the 12 core for 6000 flat if you are ok with just 12 gigs of ram and the d300.

    The real unknown is what the D700 is going to cost. I'm thinking it will be a $1200-1500 BTO add-on, but that might be very wishful thinking - I see you optimistically have it at $1000 :)
     
  11. JavaTheHut macrumors 6502

    JavaTheHut

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2010
    #12
    24 Core

    This makes an interesting comparison of what you can trump a nMacPro with…(see attached)
     

    Attached Files:

  12. Michael73 thread starter macrumors 65816

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    Feb 27, 2007
    #13
    Now that I think about it, not only might I be low, but I think you may be as well…BOOOOOO!!!! I'm still thinking about the cost for a GPU, not GPU(S) as in plural. I need to remind myself that when upgrading the GPU we're actually buying them in pairs for this machine. In that case it might be more like a $2k cost…$1k per card.
     
  13. clamnectar macrumors regular

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    May 7, 2009
    #14
    Don't forget the price of the freezer you'll have to house that thing in!
     
  14. spetznatz macrumors regular

    spetznatz

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2006
    #15
    Actually, I'd like to see just how LOW the price could go: personally, I'd like to see an option offered with only one graphics card in it. That could get the price for the base model down to £1999, which would be fantastic for running SketchUp. The first generation Mac Pro allowed you to downgrade the processors from (I think) 2.6 GHz to 2.0 GHz.

    Ah well, A lad can dream…
     
  15. Tutor, Oct 28, 2013
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2013

    Tutor macrumors 65816

    Tutor

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2009
    Location:
    Home of the Birmingham Civil Rights Institute
    #16
    Take Apple as it is or shop elsewhere for your parts/systems. Apple ain't changing.

    100% Correct. With the Nehalems, Apple charged, not the difference in the total retail price for the parts that went into the higher configuration vs. the retail price of the parts that went into the lower configuration, but charged more than that difference and Apples continues to do so, as fully shown, below. I'd heard some refer to it as, "the Apple tax." That tax is what keeps Apple's share prices in the news and makes those shares favored investments and I'm not faulting them for doing so because they have costs associated with configuring special options for configurations that will surely generate fewer sales, and Apple's a for-profit entity that had better not squander shareholder investments. But Apple has charged (and is charging) higher than the difference between the retail prices of the parts that went (go) into the lower priced configurations and the additional cost at the retail price level of items going into the special ordered item.

    Apple's Current Price Differences vs. Current Retail Price Differences


    Quad-Core and Dual GPU Mac Pro 2013 [ http://store.apple.com/us/buy-mac/mac-pro ] vs. Six-Core and Dual GPU Mac Pro 2013 [ http://store.apple.com/us/buy-mac/mac-pro ]

    The CPUs

    3.7GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon E5 processor
    12GB 1866MHz DDR3 ECC memory
    Dual AMD FirePro D300 with 2GB GDDR5 VRAM each
    256GB PCIe-based flash storage1
    $2,999.00
    CPU World [ http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/Xeon/Intel-Xeon E5-1620 v2.html ]
    Model number - E5-1620 v2
    Frequency -*3700 MHz
    Turbo frequency - 3900 MHz
    Clock multiplier - 37
    Memory channels: 4 { (12 / 4 = 3 ) Who's every heard of a 3 gig ECC ram chip - the pics of the system [ http://www.apple.com/mac-pro/ ] show 4 memory slots which is perfect in number for a 4 channel system, but only 3 chips isn't an optimal configuration for a 4 channel system}
    Price at introduction - $294

    3.5GHz 6-Core Intel Xeon E5 processor
    16GB 1866MHz DDR3 ECC memory
    Dual AMD FirePro D500 with 3GB GDDR5 VRAM each
    256GB PCIe-based flash storage1
    $3,999.00
    CPU World [ http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/Xeon/Intel-Xeon E5-1650 v2.html ]
    Model number -*E5-1650 v2
    Frequency -*3500 MHz
    Turbo frequency - 3900 MHz
    Clock multiplier 35
    Memory channels: 4
    Price at introduction - $583

    The only things stated in Apple's web store ad that differ are the CPU (1), amount of ram (2) and the GPUs (3). Here's are retail price comparisons:


    (1) $583 [Xeon E5-1650 V2] minus $294 [ Xeon E5-1620 V2 ] = $289;


    (2) Currently, I could locate only 4 sellers [ https://www.google.com/shopping/pro...=X&ei=dbVuUq-7A8urkAfwh4HYAQ&ved=0COQDEIIIMAA ] of the ram in question and each of them gives you the best price if you buy a pack of three ram sticks, for the following prices w/o taxes and shipping: Crucial - $230.99, B&H Photo-Video - 177.95, CDW - $238.55 and AntaresPro - $171.94. Average = $207.36 for three 4 gig chips w/an average cost per chip of $69.12.


    (3) At least one forum member (see post # 357 here: [ http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1657345&page=15 ]) thinks that this is Apple's match to AMD's sourcing:

    A) W7000 -> D300 [ stripped of 2GB of VRAM ]
    B) W8000 (approximately ) -> D500 [ down 1 GB of VRAM and some stream processors ]
    C) W9000 -> D700.

    From Newegg,
    (i) you can buy a retail FirePro W7000 that hasn't been stripped down, for $1,098.99;
    (ii) you can buy a retail FirePro W8000 that hasn't been stripped down, for $1,399.99; and
    (iii) you can buy a retail FirePro W9000 that hasn't been stripped down, for $3,399.99.

    The difference in price between the non-stripped down versions of the original W7000 and the W8000 is $301.

    The sum of all three differences is $301 + $69.12 + $289 = $659.12. That sum is less than the difference of $3,999.00 - $2,999.00 (which is exactly $1,000.00). But those additional (in the case of the ram) or different (in the case of the CPUs and GPUs) parts just don't magically place themselves in a system and Apple has various costs and needs to make profits for its shareholders to continue in business. So please keep that in mind when you speculate on nMP pricing. Otherwise, you're likely to have guessed much too low. SO if you're one of those who think different(ly) than me that Apple will find a way to put a E5-2697 v2 [ http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/Xeon/Intel-Xeon E5-2697 v2.html ] in the cylinder (I think it'll be a throttling, underperforming, hot, loud mess - TDP too high for a single fan system and Apple's mark is making the machine quiet so that it sets on the user's desk) then if you're guessing how much just that one addition will add to the base price looking at the nMP quad-core configuration for everything else, you be wise to consider that Apple likes to get a margin of > 40%. So rather than just subtracting $294 from $2616 to get $2322; then adding $2,322 to $2,999 and getting $5,321, you might be wiser to just consider the $294 to be the cost to Apple of getting that configuration done properly and then add that 40% tax. My guess is somewhere in the neighborhood of $3k + (2616 x1.4 = $3662.4) = $6,662.4 w/o governmental taxes and shipping. Then, if you change your mind and want more ram, internal storage, and higher end graphics, add to that the cost of those other items along with the profit mark up.

    BTW - If Apple sold the nMP in pieces, w/o having to charge for machine and/or human assembly and had less facility costs, and was simply satisfied by whatever margin they could get, I'd buy certain pieces of the nMP in a heart beat; however, not many would buy any Apple stock.
     

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