Resolved No 3G for calls on Verizon?

KUguardgrl13

macrumors 68020
Original poster
May 16, 2013
2,491
122
Kansas, USA
So I have an iPhone 5 that I mainly use in the Kansas City area and occasionally in Baltimore when visiting family. Normally I would expect that I would have LTE for data and my phone would drop to 3G for calls as Verizon phones should. But over several months now, I've noticed that when I'm in a call, it will show nothing next to Verizon at the top, and after I hang up it will switch to 1X and then LTE. No 3G whatsoever. Meanwhile I can turn off LTE in settings, and it will switch to 3G for data just fine.

So what gives? Is my phone dropping to some really old pre-1X network? Call quality seems fine, so I'm not sure it's that. Is it on 3G but just not showing it? I know VoLTE is coming, but it's not in my area yet. One would think the 3G network could still be there for calls. It's just annoying since my boyfriend can make calls on HSPA+ 4G on T-Mobile. Does Verizon just assume that no one makes calls anymore?
 
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lordofthereef

macrumors G5
Nov 29, 2011
12,904
3,476
Boston, MA
Verizon is unable to do calls and data at the same time due to their CDMA 3G network. In short, it will always drop data when in a call, competely. It has always been like this. VoLTE should change that (though I am unsure if a 5 supports that).
 

CEmajr

macrumors 601
Dec 18, 2012
4,377
1,138
Charlotte, NC
No VoLTE for the iPhone 5 so your call is always going to drop the data connection while you're on the phone. It's a limitation of CDMA technology.
 

KUguardgrl13

macrumors 68020
Original poster
May 16, 2013
2,491
122
Kansas, USA
Verizon is unable to do calls and data at the same time due to their CDMA 3G network. In short, it will always drop data when in a call, competely. It has always been like this. VoLTE should change that (though I am unsure if a 5 supports that).
I'm well aware of the lack of simultaneous calls and data. Hence why LTE phones should drop to 3G for calls, but mine doesn't appear to be. So unless they removed voice from the 3G network, I'm very curious as to what is happening. 1X or less for calls should not be happening in 2014 from the network who is known for their call quality.
 

saturnotaku

macrumors 68000
Mar 4, 2013
1,924
51
Verizon is unable to do calls and data at the same time due to their CDMA 3G network. In short, it will always drop data when in a call, competely. It has always been like this. VoLTE should change that (though I am unsure if a 5 supports that).
Only the iPhone 6 and 6 Plus support simultaneous voice/data on Verizon and even then only in areas that have LTE service. If you're on 3G and make/receive a call, data goes away.
 

chrfr

macrumors G3
Jul 11, 2009
9,548
3,432
I'm well aware of the lack of simultaneous calls and data. Hence why LTE phones should drop to 3G for calls, but mine doesn't appear to be. So unless they removed voice from the 3G network, I'm very curious as to what is happening. 1X or less for calls should not be happening in 2014 from the network who is known for their call quality.
Calls on Verizon, aside from VoLTE calls, are always on the "1x" network. They're not data, so there's no reason they'd be 3G.
 

temna

macrumors 6502a
May 5, 2008
708
394
Calls on Verizon, aside from VoLTE calls, are always on the "1x" network. They're not data, so there's no reason they'd be 3G.
And Verizon is turning off 3G for more LTE bandwidth for VoLTE.
 

KUguardgrl13

macrumors 68020
Original poster
May 16, 2013
2,491
122
Kansas, USA
Calls on Verizon, aside from VoLTE calls, are always on the "1x" network. They're not data, so there's no reason they'd be 3G.
That's interesting. When I had a 3G phone back in the day, I thought it was for data and voice but not at the same time.

So I guess that answers my question. Out of curiosity, do calls on AT&T/T-Mobile go through as HSPA+ or GSM? That would be a load of crap if AT&T could do "4G" calls but Verizon won't even bother with 3G.
 

lordofthereef

macrumors G5
Nov 29, 2011
12,904
3,476
Boston, MA
That's interesting. When I had a 3G phone back in the day, I thought it was for data and voice but not at the same time.

So I guess that answers my question. Out of curiosity, do calls on AT&T/T-Mobile go through as HSPA+ or GSM? That would be a load of crap if AT&T could do "4G" calls but Verizon won't even bother with 3G.
Yes, ATT allows 4G HSPA+ connectivity while on a voice call. It has long been one of their "why we are better than VZW" claims.
 

yg17

macrumors G5
Aug 1, 2004
14,935
2,534
St. Louis, MO
That would be a load of crap if AT&T could do "4G" calls but Verizon won't even bother with 3G.
It is indeed a load of crap. AT&T has supported calls over 3G/4G (and simultaneous voice and data) since they launched their 3G network back in the mid 2000s.
 

geoff5093

macrumors 68020
Sep 16, 2014
2,221
2,539
Dover, NH
Verizon is unable to do calls and data at the same time due to their CDMA 3G network. In short, it will always drop data when in a call, competely. It has always been like this. VoLTE should change that (though I am unsure if a 5 supports that).
With only a few exceptions, all LTE Android devices can do voice and data at the same time. Apple has just been against this
 

AutoUnion39

macrumors 601
Jun 21, 2010
4,890
941
I'm well aware of the lack of simultaneous calls and data. Hence why LTE phones should drop to 3G for calls, but mine doesn't appear to be. So unless they removed voice from the 3G network, I'm very curious as to what is happening. 1X or less for calls should not be happening in 2014 from the network who is known for their call quality.
EVDO has never done voice. Always 1x is used for voice. Always.

Go use an older iPhone 4/4S on VZW. The "3G" indicator disappears when you take a call.

It's always been like this.
 

AppleFanatic10

macrumors 68030
Nov 2, 2010
2,623
159
Hawthorne, CA
No 3G for calls on Verizon?

I'm well aware of the lack of simultaneous calls and data. Hence why LTE phones should drop to 3G for calls, but mine doesn't appear to be. So unless they removed voice from the 3G network, I'm very curious as to what is happening. 1X or less for calls should not be happening in 2014 from the network who is known for their call quality.


I think with the iPhone 5/5s or any phone with Verizon that doesn't have VoLTE, doesn't have the ability to show/have any data during call (LTE or 3G), therefore there would be no data signal.

Example: switched to 3G on iPhone 6 and placed a call, shows no data signal.
 

Electroni

macrumors newbie
Dec 12, 2014
22
2
The simultaneous voice and data limitation on CDMA is actually an iPhone limitation, in a way. The iPhone can only broadcast on one wireless path at a time and on CDMA you can either do voice or data on a single path but not both. Some CDMA android phones can have two active radios at the same time and that's why they can do simultaneous voice and data (one path talks to 1x for voice while another path talks to evdo or LTE for the data on a separate radio channel).

Once VoLTE takes hold this issue will be solved for the CDMA carriers because that will allow both voice and data to be carried on a single LTE path.

This isn't a problem for the GSM carriers because UMTS has been able to do simultaneous voice and data on a single path.
 

Applejuiced

macrumors Westmere
Apr 16, 2008
40,672
6,532
At the iPhone hacks section.
Wow, hello and welcome to many years ago.
The only iphone that can do voice and data on verizon is the iphone 6.
All iphones on gsm carriers have been able to do that since the iphone 3G back in 2009.
 

lordofthereef

macrumors G5
Nov 29, 2011
12,904
3,476
Boston, MA
With only a few exceptions, all LTE Android devices can do voice and data at the same time. Apple has just been against this
I thought it had to do with the radios they chose to use in these devices. I remember reading that somewhere. Where most verizon Android models are tailor built specifically for Verizon, most iPhone models are not. So I guess this is a matter of perspective. I view this as Apple being less against the notion and more against building tailor made devices for every carrier that wants their phone.

Anyway, the question was about an iPhone, so I figured it was a fair response. I know some Android phones had simultaenous voice and data on Verizon even before LTE launched. The first was a MOTO something... don't recall what it was exactly.
 

aristobrat

macrumors G5
Oct 14, 2005
12,262
1,352
I thought it had to do with the radios they chose to use in these devices. I remember reading that somewhere. Where most verizon Android models are tailor built specifically for Verizon, most iPhone models are not.
I thought it was the number of radios -- Android phones that can do simultaneous voice and data (non-LTE) essentially are doing two separate connections back to Verizon simultaneously -- one for voice, one for data.

The way Apple did their antenna design on the iPhone 5/5s, there was no room for the extra antenna that an extra radio would require.

Or something like that. :)
 

lordofthereef

macrumors G5
Nov 29, 2011
12,904
3,476
Boston, MA
I thought it was the number of radios -- Android phones that can do simultaneous voice and data (non-LTE) essentially are doing two separate connections back to Verizon simultaneously -- one for voice, one for data.

The way Apple did their antenna design on the iPhone 5/5s, there was no room for the extra antenna that an extra radio would require.

Or something like that. :)
For 3G, yes. I think volte just uses one radio (correct me if I am wrong).
 

Applejuiced

macrumors Westmere
Apr 16, 2008
40,672
6,532
At the iPhone hacks section.
I thought it was the number of radios -- Android phones that can do simultaneous voice and data (non-LTE) essentially are doing two separate connections back to Verizon simultaneously -- one for voice, one for data.

The way Apple did their antenna design on the iPhone 5/5s, there was no room for the extra antenna that an extra radio would require.

Or something like that. :)
Correct.
Other androids had 2 separate radios working at the same time. One for calls and one pulling data and their battery life were terrible.
Apple didn't want to create a different headset with different hardware, antennas and chips and consume more battery just for one carrier were all their iphones besides the iphone 2G can use data while on call on gsm networks.
 

KUguardgrl13

macrumors 68020
Original poster
May 16, 2013
2,491
122
Kansas, USA
Yes, ATT allows 4G HSPA+ connectivity while on a voice call. It has long been one of their "why we are better than VZW" claims.
But my second question still remains: are calls on AT&T also on HSPA+, or is the call on GSM or EDGE while the 4G network is reserved for data? For instance, if you turned off cellular data, what network would AT&T use for a call to go through? Obviously I understand that Verizon drops to 1X regardless. I just want to make a fair comparison.

I'm going to mark this thread as "Resolved" since my question was answered. I'm well aware of the "downfalls" of CDMA, but I never find myself needing to use data when I'm in a call and I don't have wifi. Half the time I turn off wifi so no one bugs me with iMessages!
 

Intell

macrumors P6
Jan 24, 2010
18,897
407
Inside
If on AT&T's HSPA+ network with cellular data turned off, the voice stream still goes on the HSPA+ network.
 

Applejuiced

macrumors Westmere
Apr 16, 2008
40,672
6,532
At the iPhone hacks section.
Edge is like CDMA. It can only do one thing at a time. Either calls or data.
Voice calls take priority and all data stops.
GSM iphones can do both voice and data on 3G, HSPA+ and LTE where available.
 

lordofthereef

macrumors G5
Nov 29, 2011
12,904
3,476
Boston, MA
But my second question still remains: are calls on AT&T also on HSPA+, or is the call on GSM or EDGE while the 4G network is reserved for data? For instance, if you turned off cellular data, what network would AT&T use for a call to go through? Obviously I understand that Verizon drops to 1X regardless. I just want to make a fair comparison.

I'm going to mark this thread as "Resolved" since my question was answered. I'm well aware of the "downfalls" of CDMA, but I never find myself needing to use data when I'm in a call and I don't have wifi. Half the time I turn off wifi so no one bugs me with iMessages!
Hspa and HSPA+ are both gsm technologies. The call is handled over the same network the traffic is. In an area where all you have is edge there is no option for simultaneous data.
 

KUguardgrl13

macrumors 68020
Original poster
May 16, 2013
2,491
122
Kansas, USA
Hspa and HSPA+ are both gsm technologies. The call is handled over the same network the traffic is. In an area where all you have is edge there is no option for simultaneous data.
Wow. No wonder people hate on CDMA if that's what you're used to! This thread has been enlightening. All I can say is that VoLTE (with a capable phone) is going to be awesome! As long as Verizon continues to have good call quality. I was on AT&T for a very short time with an Edge phone and dropped calls all the time.
 

scaredpoet

macrumors 604
Apr 6, 2007
6,627
342
I was on AT&T for a very short time with an Edge phone and dropped calls all the time.
That's because you were on an EDGE phone, which AT&T is in the processing of retiring (and is off completely in some areas). A phone that could do HSPA+ at minimum would be a better device to judge AT&T on.
 
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