No 4K Netflix HDR is why I returned my New Touchbar MBP

[TheRealAlex]

http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2016...ing-pc-kaby-lake-cpu-windows-10-edge-browser/

I really should have listened to all the Wait For Kaby Lake threads but Like many of us here I didn't. But so what the Touchbar MacBook Pro is plenty fast and it is. What was the Problem.

When I learned that I could not watch or Output 4K HDR Netflix to my LG HDR OLED TV I use as a Monitor that was the last straw.

If you have not experienced 4K or even better 4K HDR I highly recommend it. No matter what I tried No option was selectable period. It's just not supported. Why ? Read the article No Kaby Lake no HDR or 4K

That was it I marched yesterday into my local Apple Store and got back $2,800 ish and right back into my bank. What waste of a product from Apple. I wish Steve Jobs was back.

 

[Ries]

Because the required DRM is missing in skylake (and no native H265 main 10 support). I think I remember something about the video must be 100% hardware decoded and has to be sent straight out using HDCP 2.2. Netflix couldn't care much less I think, it is a requirement of thier content providers.

 

[deany]

My 4K Samsung monitor on hdmi port one doesn't except 4k input from PS4 Pro etc

hdmi port two does accept 4K

However Netflix or an amazon fire stick requires a Triax 22 converter
http://www.triax.uk/FindProduct/ProductDetails.aspx?product={7AE1D9C0-30DD-4237-943A-FB5A05BC9FFD}
for 4K on hdmi port two

 

[Kenndac]

That was it I marched yesterday into my local Apple Store

…

What waste of a product from Apple. I wish Steve Jobs was back.

Steve Jobs, the person famously quoted as saying that the DRM was a "bag of hurt" when asked about not supporting BluRays on Macs. This is exactly the same.

And, the entire laptop is a waste because it doesn't support HDCP 2.2 and Netflix's brand new format? Oh dear.

Don't get me wrong, it'd be nice if a brand new product supported the newest standards, but your reaction seems a little extreme. If this is so important to you, it's a lot less stressful to do your research first and buy the product that's right for you.

 

[Mildredop]

I marched yesterday into my local Apple Store and got back $2,800 ish

This is where Apple wins every time. I bought an iPhone after years on Android because I knew I could return it within 14 days for a full refund if I didn't like it.

Microsoft, Samsung, Google etc. need to start doing the same.

 

[deany]

I think the http://www.triax.uk/FindProduct/ProductDetails.aspx?product={7AE1D9C0-30DD-4237-943A-FB5A05BC9FFD} would have been a solution to OPs problem.

I'm not convinced Kaby Lake would make any difference its Netflix and HDCP 2.2 to 1.4 required for 4K
OPs LG monitor must be legacy.
https://www.cnet.com/uk/news/hdcp-2-2-what-you-need-to-know/

 

[Ries]

…



Steve Jobs, the person famously quoted as saying that the DRM was a "bag of hurt" when asked about not supporting BluRays on Macs. This is exactly the same.

And, the entire laptop is a waste because it doesn't support HDCP 2.2 and Netflix's brand new format? Oh dear.

Don't get me wrong, it'd be nice if a brand new product supported the newest standards, but your reaction seems a little extreme. If this is so important to you, it's a lot less stressful to do your research first and buy the product that's right for you.

It's is not "netflix" brand new format, it's the nextgen video format that replaces the current one (H264->H265). And if it wasn't for HDCP on your current laptop, you wouldn't be able to stream/view blockbuster movies from content providers either (from legal sources).

 

[ugahairydawgs]

The deal breaker on a laptop had to do with the inability to stream a particular resolution of Netflix?

 

[maflynn]

This is where Apple wins every time. I bought an iPhone after years on Android because I knew I could return it within 14 days for a full refund if I didn't like it.

Microsoft, Samsung, Google etc. need to start doing the same.

They do

MS

Return and Exchange Policy
Microsoft Store's return policy is summarized here and fully set out in the Terms of Use and Sale. The return policy is provided in addition to any statutory return rights that you may have under law. We will accept returns and exchanges for items that meet the return criteria set forth below for 30 days from the date of purchase or download, as applicable. Exceptions are stated below. We may deny any return or exchange if it fails to meet our return criteria.

Google:

Returns
You can return an item you bought from the Google Store within 15 calendar days after the day you received it. If you bought Nest Thermostat or Nest Protect from the Google Store, you can return your device within 30 days.

 

[Ries]

The deal breaker on a laptop had to do with the inability to stream a particular resolution of Netflix?

It's not limited to netflix.

http://www.techhive.com/article/311...r-pc-still-cant-stream-4k-ultra-hd-video.html

Qoute: "In an attempt to keep their 4K content locked down, the studios demand all sorts of security measures that didn’t apply to lower-resolution formats. To play 4K content on a TV or an external monitor, for instance, both the playback device and the display must support HDCP 2.2, a form of copy protection for HDMI video output.

Compared to game consoles and other streaming boxes, general computing devices (such as Windows PCs) have even more stringent requirements, including hardware-based decryption for protected content. In essence, the hardware must create a secure environment for the entire video pipeline—from decryption to decoding to screen composition—to protect the content from software ripping."

 

[maratus]

They do

MS


Google:

What if he wasn't talking about North America? AFAIK Apple easily accepts returns even in those countries where you would never be able to bring a product back without it being defective, which also may require validation from an authorised service centre.


To the OP:

You're probably the only one that is strangely obsessed with "HDR". We get it, thanks to multiple threads you've started. But FFS is that really so important? Do you even know what HDR technically is?

 

[maflynn]

What if he wasn't talking about North America? AFAIK Apple easily accepts returns even in those countries where you would never be able to bring a product back without it being defective, which also may require validation from an authorised service centre.

I can only provide my localized information and given he failed to provide those details, its reasonable to assume the US, especially when the consumer laws in other parts of the world provides better coverage.

As for authorized service centers - again the member made a blanket statement and I provided what Microsoft and Google have, not some authorized seller.

I think you're splitting hairs, yes I'm sure you can find some exception to the rule but I bet you can find the same exceptions to Apple, i.e., do all authorized sellers offer the same return policy?

 

[TheRealAlex]

I can only provide my localized information and given he failed to provide those details, its reasonable to assume the US, especially when the consumer laws in other parts of the world provides better coverage.

As for authorized service centers - again the member made a blanket statement and I provided what Microsoft and Google have, not some authorized seller.

I think you're splitting hairs, yes I'm sure you can find some exception to the rule but I bet you can find the same exceptions to Apple, i.e., do all authorized sellers offer the same return policy?

Yes I am in America USA and our Return Policies are pretty generous even Apple will bend the rules Ugggh what's let down.

I couldn't stand paying so much for a product which is essentially obsolete a month or so after it just Launched.
And it is partially Apples fault but Hollywood Studios and content providers set the rules. Right now all of our current machines are 1080p60 capable HDCP I Remeber when that was a big deal about DRM and oppression.

So the core basics of watching high end content and outputting my desktop and watching enetertainment in any 4K HDR form is simply not possible on a nearly $3,000 machine which is all but obsolete now.

Steve Come back man.

 

[Howard2k]

I bet your parents are glad to get their $2800 back. What are they getting you as a replacement?

 

[Marshall73]

This guy again, always trolling. He bought a pro for Netflix 4K HDR which it can't play and now its obsolete hardware. Just look at his previous threads, he trolls hard this one.

 

[CaptRB]

http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2016...ing-pc-kaby-lake-cpu-windows-10-edge-browser/

I really should have listened to all the Wait For Kaby Lake threads but Like many of us here I didn't. But so what the Touchbar MacBook Pro is plenty fast and it is. What was the Problem.

When I learned that I could not watch or Output 4K HDR Netflix to my LG HDR OLED TV I use as a Monitor that was the last straw.

If you have not experienced 4K or even better 4K HDR I highly recommend it. No matter what I tried No option was selectable period. It's just not supported. Why ? Read the article No Kaby Lake no HDR or 4K

That was it I marched yesterday into my local Apple Store and got back $2,800 ish and right back into my bank. What waste of a product from Apple. I wish Steve Jobs was back.

Say what?

I have 4K projection and 60" display as well. I'm a photographer who is also working in the film industry and I have a lot of experience with both film and digital projection.

4K isn't all that meaningful, especially when it's streamed. There are often artifacts and compressed sound is never the equal of a proper 4K disc. I have a 4K player and have tested them against the standard HD sources. Only on the 120" projection system is it clear that your viewing 4K. This is simple math. HD via BD is already very good resolution, so the jump is nothing like it was as when we left standard definition behind.

Can't take a story about 4K streaming off Netflix seriously at all. It's laughable. If you're going to enjoy 4K, be smart and get a player. This will get you everything the format can offer.


R.

 

[mrex]

as im going to watch netflix on my desk...

 

[GBlansten]

I didn't know this. I just tossed my '16 ntMBP in the garbage. Probably getting a Surface now.

 

[Mildredop]

They do

MS

A Microsoft rep at my local department store said they didn't offer that. I specifically mentioned my iPhone and he reiterated they don't. So I didn't buy a surface book.

 

[maflynn]

A Microsoft rep at my local department store said they didn't offer that. I specifically mentioned my iPhone and he reiterated they don't. So I didn't buy a surface book.

I pulled that off their site. Written > verbal

As an aside, I was told they did have a return period and I did buy one
[doublepost=1483721278][/doublepost]

my local department store

What department store? I bought my SB from a Microsoft store. If you were at a department store, then you'd be bound by that store's return policy and not Microsoft's.

 

[SoyCapitanSoyCapitan]

When your believe the marketing that there is a something called HDR10 it makes you look like a mug.

This term has never been used by content creators. It's a television marketing term because sales are obviously slow.

HDR is a term related to photography - combining several exposures.

10 bit colour is only relevant to very colour sensitive product photography and printing. It makes zero difference to film or TV content.

 

[jjjoseph]

When your believe the marketing that there is a something called HDR10 it makes you look like a mug.

This term has never been used by content creators. It's a television marketing term because sales are obviously slow.

HDR is a term related to photography - combining several exposures.

10 bit colour is only relevant to very colour sensitive product photography and printing. It makes zero difference to film or TV content.

I work in TV, and FILM VFX for almost 20 years, and this is not entirely true, terms change all the time. HDR just means High Dynamic Range, its not owned by any group or media workflow. Just like HDRI, just means High Dynamic Range Imaging or High Dynamic Range Image, even though CG has used the word more exclusively. If you have a 8bit file your 10bit file is a higher dynamic range than the 8bit. For example, You can hold a greater contrast image, something say 16bit plus in a 10bit encapsulation, like how LOG DPX scans used a 10bit log encoded image, but had the same contrast and dynamic range as a 16bit image. This was how we originally where able to take something with super high dynamic range, like tradition film celluloid and digitize it. Thats where we originally got LUT workflows to show a more visually appealing higher contrast image from a LOG encoded file without degrading or destroying the original image. You can technically say that the LOG encoded film scan is a High Dynamic Range image. We tossed that word around all the time, since the LOG encoded file had a higher dynamic range than its 8bit SD counterpart. Fast forward 20 years later and HDR is now used in every market and every media workflow. HDR is not owned by anyone or anything. You can take a multiple exposure still image and smash it together and call it and HDR image, just like I can take a single exposure LOG encoded or similar curved file from a single image source and call it HDR. I have personally made media for IBC, NBA demos to show HDR content for newer televisions.

I am now sure how quoting HDR10 makes someone look like a MUG, the only difference its owned by a single body and its patented and marketed ? SONY, ILM and everyone else pushes their own formats. Its just like saying REC2020 for UHD color bit depth and data rates. Its just REC2020 is owned by SMPTE and governing bodies, not an individual company.

And as your quote for 10bit color?? It makes all the difference in the world.

 

[Wildkraut]

I didn't know this. I just tossed my '16 ntMBP in the garbage. Probably getting a Surface now.

You know that all current ms surface devices can't play it either?
[doublepost=1483725735][/doublepost]

http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2016...ing-pc-kaby-lake-cpu-windows-10-edge-browser/

I really should have listened to all the Wait For Kaby Lake threads but Like many of us here I didn't. But so what the Touchbar MacBook Pro is plenty fast and it is. What was the Problem.

When I learned that I could not watch or Output 4K HDR Netflix to my LG HDR OLED TV I use as a Monitor that was the last straw.

If you have not experienced 4K or even better 4K HDR I highly recommend it. No matter what I tried No option was selectable period. It's just not supported. Why ? Read the article No Kaby Lake no HDR or 4K

That was it I marched yesterday into my local Apple Store and got back $2,800 ish and right back into my bank. What waste of a product from Apple. I wish Steve Jobs was back.

You know that Netflix 4k on Computers is only supported with Microsoft Edge Browser, which is also only available for Windows? Kaby Lake won't help you.

 

[TheRealAlex]

I work in TV, and FILM VFX for almost 20 years, and this is not entirely true, terms change all the time. HDR just means High Dynamic Range, its not owned by any group or media workflow. Just like HDRI, just means High Dynamic Range Imaging or High Dynamic Range Image, even though CG has used the word more exclusively. If you have a 8bit file your 10bit file is a higher dynamic range than the 8bit. For example, You can hold a greater contrast image, something say 16bit plus in a 10bit encapsulation, like how LOG DPX scans used a 10bit log encoded image, but had the same contrast and dynamic range as a 16bit image. This was how we originally where able to take something with super high dynamic range, like tradition film celluloid and digitize it. Thats where we originally got LUT workflows to show a more visually appealing higher contrast image from a LOG encoded file without degrading or destroying the original image. You can technically say that the LOG encoded film scan is a High Dynamic Range image. We tossed that word around all the time, since the LOG encoded file had a higher dynamic range than its 8bit SD counterpart. Fast forward 20 years later and HDR is now used in every market and every media workflow. HDR is not owned by anyone or anything. You can take a multiple exposure still image and smash it together and call it and HDR image, just like I can take a single exposure LOG encoded or similar curved file from a single image source and call it HDR. I have personally made media for IBC, NBA demos to show HDR content for newer televisions.

I am now sure how quoting HDR10 makes someone look like a MUG, the only difference its owned by a single body and its patented and marketed ? SONY, ILM and everyone else pushes their own formats. Its just like saying REC2020 for UHD color bit depth and data rates. Its just REC2020 is owned by SMPTE and governing bodies, not an individual company.

And as your quote for 10bit color?? It makes all the difference in the world.

Thank You. Without going to deep as the gentleman above did. HDR10 goes up to 10-bits and Dolby Vision goes up to 12-bits those are TV marketing terms.

It's a shame Apple didn't see fit or didn't care to provide the ability for their flagship product to support HDR or even 4K Netflix and no 4K YouTube in HDR and while not a big deal now. And in a 13" or 15" screen not a big loss but when connected to HDR monitors or TV sets it makes all the difference in the world.

Apple is stuck at 8-bit content and color while the rest of the world move on in 2017 to 10-bit and 12-bit content.

Oh man Steve Jobs is rolling over in his grave.

 

[thesaint024]

I didn't know this. I just tossed my '16 ntMBP in the garbage. Probably getting a Surface now.

You know that all current ms surface devices can't play it either?

I assume his comment was sarcasm. If so, it was rather funny. The things people come up with to hate on this MBP?!
[doublepost=1483726325][/doublepost]

Thank You. Without going to deep as the gentleman above did. HDR10 goes up to 10-bits and Dolby Vision goes up to 12-bits those are TV marketing terms.

It's a shame Apple didn't see fit or didn't care to provide the ability for their flagship product to support HDR or even 4K Netflix and no 4K YouTube in HDR and while not a big deal now. And in a 13" or 15" screen not a big loss but when connected to HDR monitors or TV sets it makes all the difference in the world.

Apple is stuck at 8-bit content and color while the rest of the world move on in 2017 to 10-bit and 12-bit content.

Oh man Steve Jobs is rolling over in his grave.

Being a tad dramatic. I don't know if Apple is marketing to people connecting the MBP to gigantic TV screens in a brand new format and probably wasn't top of mind. Sure there are applications for pros, but given that only a handful (I think) laptops output this format, I think it's optimistic. Consumers with huge screens use players. This is pretty consumer focused. Return it, seems you never had intention of owning this MBP anyway.