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No 4K Netflix HDR is why I returned my New Touchbar MBP

symphara said:
On a related note, just out of curiosity - if I do have a Kaby Lake CPU but connect to a monitor via DP, is 4k Netflix possible or does it absolutely require HDMI with HDCP2.2?
Click to expand...

Hi
You can have 4K on Netflix with a rMBP 2015 and assume the nrMBP if your monitor supports HDCP 2.2 (my monitor is 4K but legacy so pre HDCP 2.2)
OP is saying that he wants 4K HDR on his newish HDCP 2.2 TV.
 
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Wildkraut said:
You know that all current ms surface devices can't play it either?
[doublepost=1483725735][/doublepost]
You know that Netflix 4k on Computers is only supported with Microsoft Edge Browser, which is also only available for Windows? Kaby Lake won't help you.
Click to expand...
Yesterday I went and bought a Surface. Now I have just thrown that in the garbage.
 
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If the OP returned his MBP over the niche need to output 4k HDR to a high-end TV, good for him.

Personally, I would just invest in a roku ultra, which will provide a smoother, faster, hands free, etc experience with 4k HDR.

But to each their own.
 
maflynn said:
They do

MS


Google:
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The google terms seem pretty Apple-like (on a very brief skimming), but did you read the fine print of MS Store's TOS?

Highlights include not being able to return "used" items and being subject to 10% restocking fee.

  1. RETURN POLICY
    Microsoft Store’s return policy is in addition to any statutory return rights you may have under law. Microsoft Store will accept returns for items that meet the return criteria set forth below for 30 days from the date of purchase or download, as applicable. THESE RETURN CRITERIA CONDITION ANY RIGHT OF RETURN DESCRIBED IN THIS POLICY OR ELSEWHERE WITHIN THE MICROSOFT STORE, OTHER THAN THOSE REQUIRED UNDER LAW. We may deny any return or exchange if it fails to meet our return criteria. Business customers may be subject to different return criteria. When you purchase a service or ESD product from us, you agree that we may begin to provide the service or ESD product immediately. For additional information on the return process and the status of a return please visit our Returns page.

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Click to expand...

Now maybe not all MS Stores don't follow that to the letter, or store employees have some discretion, but it doesn't sound like the slam dunk Apple has made it?

(I don't claim to be an expert on MS Store TOS, so please correct me if I misunderstood)
 
deany said:
Hi
You can have 4K on Netflix with a rMBP 2015 and assume the nrMBP if your monitor supports HDCP 2.2 (my monitor is 4K but legacy so pre HDCP 2.2)
OP is saying that he wants 4K HDR on his newish HDCP 2.2 TV.
Click to expand...

Nope. Both ends needs HDCP 2.2 and the chains needs to be unbroken. The 2015 model don't have it (the ones with dgpu might, but as I remember it, the M370x doesn't). The 2016 13" don't (aka skylake hasn't), the 2016 15" might have due to dGPU, but im not sure if piping the video through optimus counts as a break in the chain, but if it does work, the dGPU has to do the video decoding, aka sucky battery life.
 
Ries said:
Nope. Both ends needs HDCP 2.2 and the chains needs to be unbroken. The 2015 model don't have it (the ones with dgpu might, but as I remember it, the M370x doesn't). The 2016 13" don't (aka skylake hasn't), the 2016 15" might have due to dGPU, but im not sure if piping the video through optimus counts as a break in the chain, but if it does work, the dGPU has to do the video decoding, aka sucky battery life.
Click to expand...

Yep, to confirm

• 4K supported
• 4K HDR not supported (but find me a laptop that is?)
 
deany said:
Yep, to confirm

• 4K supported
• 4K HDR not supported (but find me a laptop that is?)
Click to expand...

Ok, you might be right about regular 4K doesn't require HDCP 2.2.

But any kaby lake laptop has 4K HDR support and technically anything with pascal / polaris.

Edit: apparently you can buy a chip with HDCP 2.2 over TB3, but the question is, did Apple do that.
 
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Yeah, this is what gets me. The XPS 15 with the 7700HQ, the direct replacement of the 6700HQ in the 15" rMBP, was announced and is shipping soon. That means had Apple waited two months, the new rMBP could have shipped with Kaby Lake, and maybe avoided the battery issues at the same time (the XPS 13 got a crazy 18 hours on Ars Technicas web browsing test thanks to KL)

That would mean hardware h.265 decode and much better battery life while doing it. The Radeon Pros can decode it I believe, but use more power to stay on and do so.
 
tipoo said:
Yeah, this is what gets me. The XPS 15 with the 7700HQ, the direct replacement of the 6700HQ in the 15" rMBP, was announced and is shipping soon. That means had Apple waited two months, the new rMBP could have shipped with Kaby Lake, and maybe avoided the battery issues at the same time (the XPS 13 got a crazy 18 hours on Ars Technicas web browsing test thanks to KL)

That would mean hardware h.265 decode and much better battery life while doing it. The Radeon Pros can decode it I believe, but use more power to stay on and do so.
Click to expand...
So much for Apples bs claims about going with Skylake being about Low Power DDR3 being superior to standard DDR4 RAM

I have a feeling Apples next MacBook Pro keynote Apple will make a big deal, about Kaby Lake MacBook Pros now are able to Output 4K HDR and how Amazing that looks over Non-HDR they stuck us with.

Jokes on You Apple.

Starting a new Twitter hashtag #noHDRmacbookpro
 
TheRealAlex said:
Thank You. Without going to deep as the gentleman above did. HDR10 goes up to 10-bits and Dolby Vision goes up to 12-bits those are TV marketing terms.

It's a shame Apple didn't see fit or didn't care to provide the ability for their flagship product to support HDR or even 4K Netflix and no 4K YouTube in HDR and while not a big deal now. And in a 13" or 15" screen not a big loss but when connected to HDR monitors or TV sets it makes all the difference in the world.

Apple is stuck at 8-bit content and color while the rest of the world move on in 2017 to 10-bit and 12-bit content.

Oh man Steve Jobs is rolling over in his grave.
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--------
The 15" models AMD GPU supports 10bit main10 profile HEVC h.265 4K 60Hz, VP9 youtube 4K decoding.
It is only the skylake CPU that doesn't have HDCP 2.2 that allows legal DRM 4K content streaming. I am investigating if the 15" AMD GPU (which has HDCP 2.2) will play 4k Netflix or not. The problem is Playback 3.0 driver support that works with HDCP 2.2. I heard it isn't out yet to the Pascals 1050,1060,1080 and Polaris 400 series. So the 15" might still not stream 4K netflix now, but might do in the future when the driver updates.

You are assaulting Apple because they didn't wait for Kaby Lake to come out? I mean if they waited any longer, people will complain so much. So they had to deploy Skylake versions. Intel also delays a lot of CPU versions release schedule, so Apple release schedule is squeezed by this factor. If Apple waits, people complain, if Apple doesn't wait, people also complain because lack of features. gg, good game well played.
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TheRealAlex said:
I'll try and answer the best I can. I will say that for those who enjoy or are enjoying the new LG 5K Monitor Kudos as Amazing as people say that looks HDR is even more Amazing. Without Kaby Lake and an HDR10 or 10-bit display people will simply NOT get the full Expeeience.

Some have said this is all about Netflix Wrong.

This is about No 4K HDR ever period. For a device as expensive as a Touchbar MacBook Pro this capability being absent is a bridge too far. And makes an otherwise decent product. Severely lacking
[doublepost=1483792109][/doublepost]
This is and is Not about Netflix this about No HDR ever period. That's it. As amazing as 4K is Apple felt necessary and to much praise to release a 5K display. On top of that HDR is a Much bigger deal than 4K and it's simply not possible on these Touchbar MacBook Pros which are decent but obsolete.

No HDR editing, no content, no gaming, no HDR photos and more. You simply can not fully see the color sprectrum offered because the system lacks the hardware to achieve HDR either on its own display or Output to an external display can't do it.

Miss you Steve.
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----------
The AMD GPU is capable of hardware decoding 10bit main10 HEVC, h.265, VP9 videos. You can watch 4K stuff on youtube and other illegal sources. When 4K movie rips and torrents become common, the 15" 2016 MacBook Pro can handle that no problem (just with lesser battery life than iGPU of Kaby Lake). It is just the freaking HDCP 2.2 that is blocking legal DRM content from streaming services like Netflix and Amazon. I sincerely hope they will allow AMD Polaris (equiped with hardware HDCP 2.2) to view the 4K streaming.

Otherwise the 15" version is already capable of doing the 4K content. Regarding HDR, well, connect it to an HDR capable monitor =).
[doublepost=1486517301][/doublepost]
Ries said:
Nope. Both ends needs HDCP 2.2 and the chains needs to be unbroken. The 2015 model don't have it (the ones with dgpu might, but as I remember it, the M370x doesn't). The 2016 13" don't (aka skylake hasn't), the 2016 15" might have due to dGPU, but im not sure if piping the video through optimus counts as a break in the chain, but if it does work, the dGPU has to do the video decoding, aka sucky battery life.
Click to expand...
That is what I want to investigate. Will get the MacBook tomorrow. AMD GPU is said to have HDCP 2.2 compliant. But, I think the driver hasn't support it yet so it is unable to play Netflix 4K according to a german article. Or maybe, worse case senario, the chain of HDCP 2.2 needs to not be break even with the CPU. Ridiculous.
[doublepost=1486517357][/doublepost]
deany said:
Yep, to confirm

• 4K supported
• 4K HDR not supported (but find me a laptop that is?)
Click to expand...
You confirmed? You used a 2016 15" MacBook Pro to Netflix 4K on windows bootcamp with edge browser?
[doublepost=1486517494][/doublepost]
tipoo said:
Yeah, this is what gets me. The XPS 15 with the 7700HQ, the direct replacement of the 6700HQ in the 15" rMBP, was announced and is shipping soon. That means had Apple waited two months, the new rMBP could have shipped with Kaby Lake, and maybe avoided the battery issues at the same time (the XPS 13 got a crazy 18 hours on Ars Technicas web browsing test thanks to KL)

That would mean hardware h.265 decode and much better battery life while doing it. The Radeon Pros can decode it I believe, but use more power to stay on and do so.
Click to expand...
-------
Apple had to wait longer because it has to manufacture more numbers of MacBook than Dell. And it does not link with their product release date pipeline? Dunno. Maybe not because the original rMacbook was announced in Q1 of 2014?
However, if Apple did wait, imagine the COMPLAIN.
 
tipoo said:
The XPS 15 with the 7700HQ, the direct replacement of the 6700HQ in the 15" rMBP, was announced and is shipping soon. That means had Apple waited two months, the new rMBP could have shipped with Kaby Lake
Click to expand...

At the volumes Apple uses, it probably needed to wait more than two months. Also, while Intel designs and tests these for Windows, Apple has more work to make sure everything is ok in macOS. And, further more, from what I read and heard, companies like Apple and Microsoft take their time to test everything, implement it, etc. Dell is more like - "just ship it". This is why both MBP and Surface Studio came out at the same time with Skylake CPUs (and Surface Studio even came out with a last generation Nvidia card, even though series 10 was widely available).

It would be more than two months, we'd probably get the new MBPs in May or something, and that would be almost half a year later. For what? A 1% faster CPU and 4K Netflix streaming? Srsly? :)
 
4kHDR was my primary concern/reservation of the 2016MBP (EDIT: 13" model). Unfortunately, none of the 'dominoes' were in place for this feature:
-there's no hardware 4k h265 HDR decoding. (EDIT: for 13" model with SkyLake)
-the display(i think) does not support 10-bit color depth (But it is a brilliant display anyway)
-there's no way(to the best of my knowledge) to get a 4k 10-bit video out of the MBP

I ended up getting the Mac anyway, because by the time ThunderBolt supports 4k, 10-bit @ 60fps (via HDMI/DP), it will probably be time to upgrade anyway (and i couldnt wait any longer for a new Mac). (They could surprise me by supporting 4kHDR60fps in the next revision, who knows).

Chances are, there will be a plethora of other, cheaper products (PS/XB/etc) which will be able to drive those displays anyway, and i prefer not to have my Mac tethered to my TV most of the time.

From my research, it seems like the XBOS is the best 4k media player out there(I dont own one), and its a fraction of the cost of a new Mac.

Cheers
CORRECTION: It has been brought to my attention that ThunderBolt3 via DisplayPort 1.2 supports 4k 30-bit color @ 60 Hz
 
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People, you realise that you are discussing a proprietary DRM tech that is only implemented in Windows on selected hardware platform and mostly likely will never show up in OS X or Linux? I you want to enjoy HDR 4K, you should become politically active and lobby that DRM of this sort be forbidden by law. After all, its an arbitrary restriction imposed by media rights holders. Other than the DRM, there is no technical reason why CPUs before KL should be unable to handle this type of content.
 
hawkeye_a said:
4kHDR was my primary concern/reservation of the 2016MBP. Unfortunately, none of the 'dominoes' were in place for this feature:
-there's no hardware 4k h265 HDR decoding.
-the display(i think) does not support 10-bit color depth (But it is a brilliant display anyway)
-there's no way(to the best of my knowledge) to get a 4k 10-bit video out of the MBP

I ended up getting the Mac anyway, because by the time ThunderBolt supports 4k, 10-bit @ 60fps (via HDMI/DP), it will probably be time to upgrade anyway (and i couldnt wait any longer for a new Mac). (They could surprise me by supporting 4kHDR60fps in the next revision, who knows).

Chances are, there will be a plethora of other, cheaper products (PS/XB/etc) which will be able to drive those displays anyway, and i prefer not to have my Mac tethered to my TV most of the time.

From my research, it seems like the XBOS is the best 4k media player out there(I dont own one), and its a fraction of the cost of a new Mac.

Cheers
Click to expand...
Hey,
The current Skylake 15" AMD GPU can handle all the 4K 60Hz, h.265, HEVC, 10bit main10 profile decoding hardware based. It just will take more power than if the Kaby Lake handle that.
 
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Penlocky said:
Hey,
The current Skylake 15" AMD GPU can handle all the 4K 60Hz, h.265, HEVC, 10bit main10 profile decoding hardware based. It just will take more power than if the Kaby Lake handle that.
Click to expand...

You're right. (I should have qualified that i was talking about the SkyLake proc in the 13" models for that point...(has been corrected above)).

But the other two points apply to all 2016 MBPs. (Limitation of the display and TB3).
 
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I figure this will be relevant in another year. Watching limited content just because it's 4k is not something that appeals to me.

Lot's of people like to do this sort of thing, so I understand.
 
hawkeye_a said:
4kHDR was my primary concern/reservation of the 2016MBP (EDIT: 13" model). Unfortunately, none of the 'dominoes' were in place for this feature:
-there's no hardware 4k h265 HDR decoding. (EDIT: for 13" model with SkyLake)
-the display(i think) does not support 10-bit color depth (But it is a brilliant display anyway)
-there's no way(to the best of my knowledge) to get a 4k 10-bit video out of the MBP
Click to expand...

A correction to my earlier posts. It turns out that Thunderbolt3 via DisplayPort 1.2, does support 4k 30-bit @ 60hz. So the late 2016 and mid 2017 MacBooks with Thunderbolt3 can theoretically output video in 10-bit color. Apologies for the incorrect information.
 
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