No 64bit for Photoshop CS4 on OS X

[puckhead193]

Wirelessly posted (my blackberry pearl: BlackBerry8130/4.3.0 Profile/MIDP-2.0 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/105)

Dam I just got CS3 and talks of CS4. Owell just as long as apple doesn't update final cut studio for at least 6 months

 

[ibwb]

Which is why we'll see Apple finally release the long awaited Cocoa Photoshop killer!!!! Adobe should have made the switch years ago, but they were lazy. Carbon was NEVER a long term solution,, but Adobe milked it for all it's worth. How many paid upgrades did they receive, yet they never REALLY re-wrote the code. Not to Cocoa anyway. I shed no tears for them.

With no reason to upgrade Photoshop for 3 years now, Apple has some time to build up a user base on a native, fast, clean new image editing app. Photoshop's days are numbered! (number CS4 and number CS5) Goodbye creaky old Carbon OS 9 code, hello APK (Apple Photoshop Killer)!!! Can't wait!!

If Apple wanted to take over the Photoshop market, wouldn't it be a better strategy to just buy Adobe? Really, Apple's developers have so much on their plate right now -- witness the delay of Leopard to get the iPhone released in time, the delay in getting the iPhone SDK out, etc. Why saddle the Apple developers with such a huge task that may or may not succeed?

 

[change]

Any thoughts on Apple taking advantage of this and producing a Photoshop competitor? They have certainly pushed into the "pro app" category over the last few years and Photoshop is the one potential rival they have not dared to challenge.

I've been saying this for over a year now. It would probably take years to catch up, but i feel Apple can do it, and do it better. Can you imagine Photoshop that is optimized for our Macs, with Apple's ease of use, and UI philosophies? Can't wait myself!

 

[ATG]

The important thing to note is that "EngineStalled" is an event rather than a method so you could have different instances of the Car class with different handlers for when the engine stalled.

Car ParentsCar = new Car();
Car SonsCar = new Car();

ParentsCar.EngineStalled += delegate { Phone.CallMercedes(); };
SonsCar.EngineStalled += delegate { CityDump += SonsCar; }

This is quicker than having to create a whole new child custom class in a separate area or file. As there's only one or two commands you can go over your code easily and see what it does without criss crossing through the different sections of your project. Basically, sometimes creating a one line inline method is more elegant than creating a whole new method and class. No?

Don't like Objective-C? Use ruby or python.

 

[MikeAnd]

Well that's crappy... If Apple isn't careful they could lose their fairly strong presence in the upper end of the graphic arts industry if a windows guy can mess around with massive photos 10 times faster than the mac guy.

This looks sucky for CS4, but the long run this is actually a good thing. Consider this: Apple is basically deprecating Carbon and forcing Adobe to move to Cocoa.

So yes, we will have to wait an extra 18-24 months for 64-bit Photoshop. But the upside is that the Mac versions of CS5, CS6, CS7, etc. will all be poised to take advantage of all the new technologies Apple introduces over the next decade (think resolution independence).

Meanwhile, the Windows versions of CS5, CS6, CS7, etc. will STILL be stuck on Win32 (yes, ironically the 64-bit API is still called Win32), just like 99% of the rest of Windows software. This is a horrid API that basically dates back to Win 3.1 days, and there is no way that CS (or most of Windows, for that matter) will be getting features like resolution independence.

Bottom Line: Apple is forcing an 18-24 month delay in 64-bit CS by deprecating Carbon, but this move will pay off over the next decade as CS can immediately take advantage of all the new features OS X introduces. CS for Windows gets 64-bit support 18-24 months earlier, but it's not going to be positioned to adopt any new features over the next decade.

 

[Infrared]

Wow people are talking out their asses about this.

First off, Leopard is the first real 64 bit OS Apple shipped, WinXP x64 and linux flavors have been out for quite some time. So there, there isnt some mythical apple head start on 64 bit, in fact they have lagged behind.

I don't doubt that but Apple ships only a 64-bit OS now (I'm not
talking about the handhelds here which I know nothing about).
In that sense they truly are ahead of MS which has failed to get
any kind of momentum going on this.

 

[ciparis]

These clowns have known for 8 years (or more, if they had been paying attention) that this API was the future on the Mac. Now they have the gall to act surprised that their terminal lethargy is finally going to bite them and their customers in the ass?

 

[Darkroom]

what is going on with the Adobe and Apple relationship? this is absolute nonsense... i though it was bad enough that the flash plugin for safari has memory leaks causing the browser to often crash or spin, and now this?

i hope Apple realizes in this time of super success that it isn't the high school / university students buying iPods and low-end MacBooks who got them where they are today, but rather the creative arts communities who supported them when they weren't so popular.

and i hope Adobe realizes that if they want to charge mac users $1000+ for Photoshop CS4 they should try harder to write the code instead of giving excuses... you have enough employees! get to work!

 

[Povilas]

Well..Adobe sucks anyway. The CS3 Suite is still full of bugs for Leopard. And Leopard is not brand new. Pfffft...

I agree, CS3 uses an abnormal amount of ram, it's slow on machines like iMac or MacBook even with 4 GB of ram. For example Motion 3 uses much less ram and runs faster than After Effects and Final Cut Pro 6 beats Premiere in RAM consumtiono and other ways.

 

[Hemingray]

I don't know the first thing about Carbon and Cocoa programming, but it seems to me if they had begun working on Cocoa versions of their suite from the beginning instead of just putting off the transition by continuing to develop with Carbon, this wouldn't really be an issue. Good for Apple for forcing them to get with the future! This is just my (probably uneducated) opinion.

 

[penter]

It does sound like a decent discrepancy on paper, but in reality it won't impact very many end users immediately. All of us have been working in a 32 bit world up until now and for the most part folks have figured out ways to make that work for them. Moving to 64 bit allows for larger files and better access to huge banks of RAM, but for day-to-day use on a standard professional level, this will most likely have little impact.

As for the extreme high-end users who will benefit most from this upgrade, most of those folks that I know of can comfortably use either platform to suit their needs depending on the job, so for the few times it's critical, they still get a tool that works. In the end on a job, it doesn't matter if your hammer is made by Stanley or the Hello Kitty factory, as long as it drives nails well.

This is such a refreshing post. Most posts are very pessimistic, but you've managed to look at the bright side of things. If only people in this world were more like you....

 

[Povilas]

Wait... Apple drop support for Carbon and it's Adobe's fault?

Oh come on, guys. That's just silly.

Silly you say? Adobe had more than lots of time to make transition to cocoa and they cry that it's about 1 000 000 of lines of code to change. Come on! Mac OS X is about 80 000 000 if i am correct. This transition prom PPC to Intel was made in a very short time, but still 1 000 000 lines to change is so hard for adobe that they want pass by the next major release of OS X. This is ******** i say.

 

[Eraserhead]

This looks sucky for CS4, but the long run this is actually a good thing. Consider this: Apple is basically deprecating Carbon and forcing Adobe to move to Cocoa.

So yes, we will have to wait an extra 18-24 months for 64-bit Photoshop. But the upside is that the Mac versions of CS5, CS6, CS7, etc. will all be poised to take advantage of all the new technologies Apple introduces over the next decade (think resolution independence).

Meanwhile, the Windows versions of CS5, CS6, CS7, etc. will STILL be stuck on Win32 (yes, ironically the 64-bit API is still called Win32), just like 99% of the rest of Windows software. This is a horrid API that basically dates back to Win 3.1 days, and there is no way that CS (or most of Windows, for that matter) will be getting features like resolution independence.

Bottom Line: Apple is forcing an 18-24 month delay in 64-bit CS by deprecating Carbon, but this move will pay off over the next decade as CS can immediately take advantage of all the new features OS X introduces. CS for Windows gets 64-bit support 18-24 months earlier, but it's not going to be positioned to adopt any new features over the next decade.

I think this is one of the best posts in the entire thread, and looks at it from a very intelligent perspective. Yes CS4 for Mac will suck but CS5 and later will be considerably better on the Mac than Windows. Short term pain for long term gain.

 

[stadidas]

Silly you say? Adobe had more than lots of time to make transition to cocoa and they cry that it's about 1 000 000 of lines of code to change. Come on! Mac OS X is about 80 000 000 if i am correct. This transition prom PPC to Intel was made in a very short time, but still 1 000 000 lines to change is so hard for adobe that they want pass by the next major release of OS X. This is ******** i say.

I highly doubt it's 80 millions lines. Also, Mac OS X was developed as cross-platform by design. It ran on Intel from 10.0. It's not like they re-wrote their OS.

 

[bilbo--baggins]

How stupid does this make Adobe look...

 

[skellener]

While that may be true, if Adobe runs on a 18 - 24 month product cycle, Photoshop CS5, and therefore 64 Bit for the Mac, won't be coming out until, let's see CS3 announced March 27, 2007 add 18 - 24 months and CS4 will be around late September 2008 - late March 2009 timeframe and then CS5 around late September 2009 - late March 2010.

So, in the year 2010, just a three year wait for 64 Bit for the Mac, but it will be here before you know it. If all goes well.

Yeah, but it will be this year and it will be from Apple!

Okay Apple could and probably should have given more warning.

Why? 2001 wasn't early enough?

But have you converted a Carbon app to Cocoa? I've written both - it's a huge undertaking.

That's why they should have just re-writen it from scratch a long time ago. No tears for Adobe. They have plenty of time, money and resources to do it if they wanted to. They chose not to, but still sold upgrades based on creaky old Carbon. Time to move off Adobe apps and onto something better that will come from Apple.

 

[theLimit]

Just goes to show that you can't keep kludging along forever. The move to Cocoa started nearly ten years ago, and many devs kept putting off rewriting their code. Now the plug has been pulled on Carbon and panic sets in.

It's hard to fault Adobe in this situation, though. Apple pulled the 64-bit Carbon support at the last minute without warning just like they pulled features from Leopard (resolution independence, fast Boot Camp switching, Home on iPod). Apple itself doesn't even use Cocoa for many of their apps, and hardly any are 64-bit. If Apple want everyone to move to 64-bit Cocoa, they need to start setting an example.

 

[codemancmc]

Yeah, but it will be this year and it will be from Apple!

Given this hypothetical (and likely) timeline, Adobe better listen up: IF you want to keep Mac users from jumping ship for a possible Apple version-up of Aperature to Photoshop levels of functionality (Aperature already does many things better then CS3) they will need to guarentee some sort of discount upgrade pricing for CS5 for users who purchase CS4 for OSX (wow that's a lot of acronyms).

If they say that a $50/$100 upgrade from CS4 to CS5 64bit is imminent, I certainly stay loyal to Adobe.

What do you guys think?

 

[skellener]

What would ever give you that idea? There's no evidence from any reliable source that apple is even WORKING on a PS type app right now. "Already written". Idiotic.

Yeah, and neither was the Mac OS X for Intel (which existed long before OS X for PPC because NeXT ran on Intel already!) You know nothing about how Apple works do you? Why do you think most of the capabilities of Photoshop already exist IN OS X?? If you don't see the writing on the wall for Apple to deliver a Photoshop killer at this point, you sir are idiotic.

 

[Claytoniss]

Apple is used by so many artists, designers, photographers, etc., that I feel Adobe should really keep that user base a top priority. To have to wait for two upgrades to get 64 bit usability seems almost punitive (as well as expensive).

I agree! Adobe products is what made me make the switch to mac! Two versions is ridiculous. Thats like 4 year gap considering the product cycles of CS.

I wish Adobe would make their own computers!

 

[MacsAttack]

Silly you say? Adobe had more than lots of time to make transition to cocoa and they cry that it's about 1 000 000 of lines of code to change. Come on! Mac OS X is about 80 000 000 if i am correct. This transition prom PPC to Intel was made in a very short time, but still 1 000 000 lines to change is so hard for adobe that they want pass by the next major release of OS X. This is ******** i say.

Given that Adobe chose to charge all us non US Mac users around 70% more that those in the US had to pay (and Adobe had us all over a barrel with the need for a native Intel version) you would think they could afford to put the resources in to get the CS4 version up to scratch.

As it is, lots of people (with a very bad taste from being ripped off with CS3) were thinking about skipping CS4 - and Adobe playing silly buggers like this just reinforces that.

I hope Adobe aren't planning their future based on CS4 sales - cause it is not going to be that good unless there is some mind blowing new features way beyond anything they have given us before (Holographic displays perhaps). A free pony perhaps.

 

[CJSweatt]

Just Bought CS3 Suite

I just purchased the CS3 Web Premium suite last week, and now there are talks of CS4 coming out... GAH!

Does anyone know when this may be happening? Hopefully this will not be a MAJOR release as I've just spent bookoos of money on CS3 Web Premium...

 

[Claytoniss]

i hope Apple realizes in this time of super success that it isn't the high school / university students buying iPods and low-end MacBooks who got them where they are today, but rather the creative arts communities who supported them when they weren't so popular.

and i hope Adobe realizes that if they want to charge mac users $1000+ for Photoshop CS4 they should try harder to write the code instead of giving excuses... you have enough employees! get to work!

HAHA!!! THANK YOU! Although i was in college when I was making the "switch"

 

[MacsAttack]

I just purchased the CS3 Web Premium suite last week, and now there are talks of CS4 coming out... GAH!

Does anyone know when this may be happening? Hopefully this will not be a MAJOR release as I've just spent bookoos of money on CS3 Web Premium...

Wild speculation pegs this for around December.

Maybe.

 

[-hh]

Why would you want it to be 64 bits? Image files larger than 4GB?

More so for the ability for Photoshop to use more than 4GB of RAM, which is the conventional 32-bit addressing limit.


In reading the various blogger's comments on this event, it seems that there's blame to pass around for both Apple and Adobe.

One of the things that seems to be an element of Adobe's reluctance in moving to Cocoa (they've had warnings since 2003, if not earlier) is a perception that Photoshop doesn't have any competition. While techically this is probably mostly true, I do have to say that they're wrong, because an existing Photoshop user doesn't have to upgrade every time.

For example, I'm running CS2 and I don't really plan on buying CS3...I'll wait for CS4 now. As such, I've cut my expense of maintaining my Adobe software by 50%, and this sort of buying strategy shouldn't be at all uncommon in the Mac's consumer market.


-hh