No! Bendgate is real!

[itjw]

My thoughts exactly.

Your experiment is still invalid to the rest of us. No video? No pictures afterwards. What constitutes 50% strength for you? What is that in foot pounds? That was a very unscientific method you took to try and prove your point. Go find someone with real test equipment and try again on your own phone instead of destroying a phone in a store that someone may buy, because they will eventually come to macrumors and post about how they bought a bent iPhone from a store.

That's nothin. I busted out the gun show at Best Buy and told them I thought I could bend a Klipsch Reference speaker in half. I picked it up, lifted it over my head, screamed: "HULK SMASH!!!!!" and bent it like a piece of loose leaf paper (which is odd, because they're made of wood)...

And that was only about... hm... 30% strength. So I have to say I think Klipsch is using defective wood. I have no reason other than a fak... err.. real internet story I just mad... err... reported, but I'm writing a letter of disatisfaction to Klipsch right now.

On an unrelated note: I don't believe him.

 

[meistervu]

There's talk almost all unicorns are coming with scratches right out of fairy tale land. Apparently the fairies don't get paid enough to care.

The thing is, some people look at you funny when you tell them you have to return a unicorn because of a scratch. They sure think you are crazy if you utter the word "bend." This is about the only place where you can find some one will understand this type of problems. Very supporting this place is.

 

[NovemberWhiskey]

I just got back from the Apple store from doing a swap, and the "remanufactured" phone (which is supposed to be virtually a new phone less the recycled motherboard) that I was given had a "loose" battery.

Actually, I wasn't even handed the phone. The genius felt it moving just handling it. He stopped me from entering my email address into his store device, and showed me what was wrong. If you gently wiggle the phone, you can feel something akin to a bag of water moving around in the phone. Never felt that before.

Take that into consideration when you argue that it is impossible for a phone to spontaneously bend. A loose battery + whatever damage is being caused internally can lead to a swollen battery and external pressure causing bends in the device.

 

[SomeDudeAsking]

This thread has a lot of denial by Apple loyalists who won't accept anything but "iPhone is perfect".

 

[faroZ06]

This thread has a lot of denial by Apple loyalists who won't accept anything but "iPhone is perfect".

It's easy to be loyal when you get an iPhone that has no problems, like when the fabled antenna problems were publicized, but I've seen a white iPhone 5 in real life that had some weird green dent on it right out of the box. I also saw a new iPad with a sticky/semi-broken home button. Somehow, the quality control got really loose for some of them.

 

[faroZ06]

Yep. I specifically said that I heard they bend easily, and, as a salesman, he ends up saying how strong they are naturally to try to sell them to me. So I tried to bend them in front of him.

Note: From this exercise I think people should note one thing... the iPhone 5 is AIRTIGHT! If you are sitting on it, it is probably going to be the battery and the glass holding your body up. Combined they are thicker than the aluminum. I think with just the shell of aluminum it would be weaker than the strength of the glass and the battery (motherboard, etc etc). So however this fits into the equation of bent iPhone 5, it is fairly important. Although some pictures show only aluminum is bent.

Don't put it in your back pocket. I know two people who broke iDevices by doing that, a 2nd gen iPod touch and original iPhone. My cousin always put his iPod touch in his back pocket and only broke it after a few years, but even if it's supposed to withstand it, why risk it when you can use a front pocket?

 

[sotorious]

Lmao ring ring banana phone. Anyone see what I did there?

 

[vastoholic]

It's easy to be loyal when you get an iPhone that has no problems, like when the fabled antenna problems were publicized, but I've seen a white iPhone 5 in real life that had some weird green dent on it right out of the box. I also saw a new iPad with a sticky/semi-broken home button. Somehow, the quality control got really loose for some of them.

We're not denying that there are bad products that get shipped with issues. It happens with every release. We just have problems with people making claims of magical bending when it was more than likely the fault of the user. More than likely. I say that because no one has provided any proof that they did not cause these issues themselves.

 

[SomeDudeAsking]

We're not denying that there a bad products that get shipped with issues. It happens with every release. We just have problems with people making claims of magical bending when it was more than likely the fault of the user. More than likely. I say that because no one has provided any proof that they did not cause these issues themselves.

And you have not provided any proof that this isn't a defective design or workmanship even though there are many loyal iPhone users coming forward with the same bendgate problem.

 

[vastoholic]

And you have not provided any proof that this isn't a defective design or workmanship even though there are many loyal iPhone users coming forward with the same bendgate problem.

Touché. All I know is that I've put my phone through the same rigors as those who have come forward and explained their problem and I haven't noticed an issue at all. It's difficult to go off anyone's word, including mine. I don't know what it would take to convince me that's it's a real issue. All I know is that I can't ride my motorcycle anymore without constantly checking my pocket because threads like this have made me paranoid. Even still, I haven't had any issues. You're stopping me from enjoying my riding, and that's what bothers me most!

 

[Grolubao]

Just make an iPhone out of this:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...75971682.47251.241392719306251&type=1&theater

 

[dukebound85]

And you have not provided any proof that this isn't a defective design or workmanship even though there are many loyal iPhone users coming forward with the same bendgate problem.

Logical Fallacy: Affirming the consequent

Those making the claim it is a result of defective design need to provide proof it is defective. Not the other way around. Concluding that since it bends, it is defective by design is an erroneous conclusion.
ex: If you claim there is a spaghetti monster, the burden is on you to prove it, not for me to disprove it

The bending is a result of users applying force to their phone that is unreasonable.

 

[SomeDudeAsking]

Logical Fallacy: Affirming the consequent

Those making the claim it is a result of defective design need to provide proof it is defective. Not the other way around. Concluding that since it bends, it is defective by design is an erroneous conclusion.
ex: If you claim there is a spaghetti monster, the burden is on you to prove it, not for me to disprove it

The bending is a result of users applying force to their phone that is unreasonable.

Logical Fallacy: Trying to Use the "You Have to Prove Everything, Not Me!" Argument In Real Life. It doesn't always work that way in real life, especially when many users here have provided proof.

And try not to say something like "The bending is a result of users applying force to their phone that is unreasonable." when you are trying to use a logical fallacy that says you must prove it yourself. You are just be hypocritical that way.

 

[dukebound85]

Logical Fallacy: Trying to Use the "You Have to Prove Everything, Not Me!" Argument In Real Life. It doesn't always work that way in real life, especially when many users here have provided proof.

And try not to say something like "The bending is a result of users applying force to their phone that is unreasonable." when you are trying to use a logical fallacy that says you must prove it yourself. You are just be hypocritical that way.

It's clear you don't understand logical fallacies. There are formal definitions for various kinds of fallacies, such as the one I listed. Can you cite the fallacy you listed? Thought not as it doesn't exist. But that's ok.

However if you can't understand that the burden of proof is on those making the claim and not of others needing to disprove your claim, I truly suggest reading up on how to present a logical argument.

 

[Megalobyte]

Logical Fallacy: Affirming the consequent

Those making the claim it is a result of defective design need to provide proof it is defective. Not the other way around. Concluding that since it bends, it is defective by design is an erroneous conclusion.
ex: If you claim there is a spaghetti monster, the burden is on you to prove it, not for me to disprove it

The bending is a result of users applying force to their phone that is unreasonable.

Wait a minute. Are you saying there ISN'T a spaghetti monster???

 

[SomeDudeAsking]

It's clear you don't understand logical fallacies. There are formal definitions for various kinds of fallacies, such as the one I listed. But that's ok.

However if you can't understand that the burden of proof is on those making the claim and not of others needing to disprove your claim, I truly suggest reading up on how to present a logical argument.

Actually, you are not applying logical fallacies correctly by doing stuff such as claiming "The bending is a result of users applying force to their phone that is unreasonable." and yet providing no proof. You also don't recognize what is claim and what is proof. What is fact is that there are many bent iPhone 5 devices. What we have is writing by many loyal iPhone users that their iPhone 5 devices bent easily with the same usage they've given to their previous iPhones. This can be considered proof in class action lawsuits for faulty design, logical fallacies be damned.

 

[dukebound85]

Actually, you are not applying logical fallacies correctly by doing stuff such as claiming "The bending is a result of users applying force to their phone that is unreasonable." and yet providing no proof. You also don't recognize what is claim and what is proof. What is fact is that there are many bent iPhone 5 devices. What we have is writing by many loyal iPhone users that their iPhone 5 devices bent easily with the same usage they've given to their previous iPhones. This can be considered proof in class action lawsuits for faulty design, logical fallacies be damned.

Just curious

You really think a thread with a handful of posters claiming a bent phone out of millions of phones is proof of a design defect?

Also, do you really need proof that excessive force bends things?

 

[SomeDudeAsking]

Just curious

You really think a thread with a handful of posters claiming a bent phone out of millions of phones is proof of a design defect?

Also, do you really need proof that excessive force bends things?

You have erroneously used "millions" when the active membership of this board is only thousands.

And you have not quantified "excessive force" either when all the writing by other posters is that they treated their phones carefully and used it in the same manner as their previous phones. In a court of law, you have to prove your definition of "excessive force".

Ball is in your court.

 

[vastoholic]

You have erroneously used "millions" when the active membership of this board is only thousands.

And you have not quantified "excessive force" either when all the writing by other posters is that they treated their phones carefully and used it in the same manner as their previous phones. In a court of law, you have to prove your definition of "excessive force".

Ball is in your court.

Those same users also have to prove they treated their phones in a normal way.

 

[burgundyyears]

You have erroneously used "millions" when the active membership of this board is only thousands.

And you have not quantified "excessive force" either when all the writing by other posters is that they treated their phones carefully and used it in the same manner as their previous phones. In a court of law, you have to prove your definition of "excessive force".

Ball is in your court.

In the west anyway, proof is on the claimant party. We no more have to prove to you a phone doesn't bend as I have to prove to you that I am not a duck. The null hypothesis is assumed and then proved otherwise, not the reverse.

Oh, and quack quack quack.

 

[SomeDudeAsking]

Those same users also have to prove they treated their phones in a normal way.

It's called witness testimony and we have plenty of that in this thread.

 

[dukebound85]

You have erroneously used "millions" when the active membership of this board is only thousands.

And you have not quantified "excessive force" either when all the writing by other posters is that they treated their phones carefully and used it in the same manner as their previous phones. In a court of law, you have to prove your definition of "excessive force".

Ball is in your court.

There have been millions of iPhones sold...

Those who have issues are more apt to register to see if its a problem and a fewer fraction will then post. That is the nature of forums. If it was widespread, you would see coverage to the extent seen with the iPhone 4 antennae. However, we don't.

I would challenge the assertion they treated their phone exactly the same. Chances are, no

What would need to be done is take a test sample and subject it to what would be reasonable forces seen during use. Undoubtedly you would find that common forces associated with useage will not cause the iPhone to bend.

However if you want to start your lawsuit, you would need to prove that little force , or that seen with common expected usage,would cause it to bend. You have to supply the evidence as to why it shouldn't bend so easily and convince the court that the design is flawed. That is how the process works. Thinking otherwise is to be naive of the reality of how our courts, at least in the us, work

 

[SomeDudeAsking]

In the west anyway, proof is on the claimant party. We no more have to prove to you a phone doesn't bend as I have to prove to you that I am not a duck. The null hypothesis is assumed and then proved otherwise, not the reverse.

Oh, and quack quack quack.

Again, witness testimony is powerful.

 

[RWil85]

Reading this thread was exhausting, to say the least.

From said experience - I have gained nothing; rather, lost just a little more faith in society.

Kudos.

 

[syd430]

Reading this thread was exhausting, to say the least.

From said experience - I have gained nothing; rather, lost just a little more faith in society.

Kudos.

Thank you wise one, for sharing your wisdom on the issue.