no dns and double-nat

Discussion in 'Mac OS X Server, Xserve, and Networking' started by lukedieduke, Mar 5, 2010.

  1. lukedieduke macrumors newbie

    Mar 5, 2010
    Hi MacRumors,
    I have a problem with my time capsule (TC).The problem is, that always, when I am surfing in the internet, playing video-games online or even, when I am on skype, talking with my mates, my internet crashes. It is a major problem, if I am downloading a movie from itunes.
    Okay, I will tell you how this happens:
    I am downloading a movie on itunes and when I downloaded maybe about 1 of 3gb, the download stops. So I open my airport program, but the time capsule is showing a green light. So I close the app, wait 5 minutes and open the app again. Suddenly the TC light is orange and my TC tells me, that there are 2 problems. So I check what for problems my TC has got. The two problems are: No DNS and double-nat (hope it's also called so in english, because i am german :D). So I wait again 5 minutes and suddenly the problems are gone and I can surf the internet again etc.
    This wouldn't be that bad, if these problems would come once a day. But sadly they come at least every hour :mad:.
    So now I would like to know, if you could help me with my problem because I am getting mad!!!
    Here is some extra info: I use my TC as Router and as backup for all my music. Because almost everybody in my family has a computer we have 3 macs, one ps3 (which I often play in the internet) and 2 ipod touch which are also always connected with the internet. So could it be, that there is just to much stuff, that is in the internet?
    Well, I hope somebody can help me.
  2. wandal macrumors newbie

    Feb 17, 2010
    Your stuff is never too much! :D

    But, you have to consider that "double nat" message and fix the problem. For sure you have TWO routers. As in every hen hose, there must be only one cock. Maybe you have one router beside the Adsl connection, AND the Time Machine. You have to choose just one router that makes the work of assigning IP "private" addressess in your home network.

    So, you can put your TimeCapsule in "bridge mode" and forget about it. tab Internet connection > connection sharing > bridge mode.

    By the way, check out your DNS. You can set it in the router, or in your Mac.

  3. lukedieduke thread starter macrumors newbie

    Mar 5, 2010
    Okay, Thanks
    But, I connected my TC over a cable with this plug, that comes out of the wall and then I connected it again with this thing, that looks like a router (i guess it is one).
    And, how do i set my dns? (sorry I know lots more of computers, then of networks :D) And why do these problems come and go? Why don't they stay?
    And, what is bridge-mode and what does it do, that helps me?
  4. wandal macrumors newbie

    Feb 17, 2010
    Should you (or your net admin) know something about your own devices!

    if you have Adsl -> Router -> TimeMachine, you should put TimeMachine in Bridge Mode. Launch Airport Utility, tab Internet connection > connection sharing > bridge mode.

    if you have Adsl -> TimeMachine -> Router, you either put the router in bridge mode, or switch to the Adsl -> router -> TimeMachine configuration and follow the tip above.

    in "Bridge Mode" your device will not assign IP addresses to your Macs (DHCP service), simply will pass all the given addresses from the router to the Macs, like a bridge. On the other hand, if you share a connection, your TimeCapsule or your router will assign new local addresses (like to your machines, an will make Network Address Translation (NAT) from the "outside" to the "local" addresses.
  5. lukedieduke thread starter macrumors newbie

    Mar 5, 2010
    okay, bridge-mode won't help.
    I tried it and i couldn't get into the internet. :confused:
    Any other hints?
  6. lukedieduke thread starter macrumors newbie

    Mar 5, 2010
    okay, got some more info: I hooked the TC up like this: ADSL -> Modem -> TC! But I think, I didn't put the modem into bridge-mode so that the TC can give every computer his own address. stupidly I don't know how to access the modem now and so I don't know how to put it into bridge-mode.
    I tried bridge-mode on my TC but i couldn't access the internet :confused:. so maybe this is the information, that you need, to help me :D.
  7. TheCoupe macrumors member

    Mar 4, 2009
    Northern Ireland
    Hi, ok, you are heading in the right direction... ADSL -> Router -> TC. In this setup, as stated by wandal, you must set the TC up in Bridge Mode. The one thing to check before you do anything is your computers IP address: System Preference -> Network -> Ethernet or Airport (whichever method you are connected to the TC).

    After changing your TC to bridge mode, your IP address should change.
    Your Current Setup:
    ADSL (public IP)
    -> Router (DHCP Server - NAT 1 - private IP range, eg, 192.168.0.x)
    -> TC (DHCP Server - NAT 2 - private privateIP range eg, 10.0.0.x)

    When the TC is set to Bridge Mode, it will no longer act as a DHCP Server and will stop handing out it's own IP addresses, leaving your Router to do all the work.

    If your IP address doesn't change after changing the TC to Bridge Mode, turn your Airport OFF and back ON and make sure you are then getting a new IP and able to access the internet.

    If all else fails, try removing the TC temporarily and connect directly to your router to see what IP address you are getting and if you can access the net.
  8. lukedieduke thread starter macrumors newbie

    Mar 5, 2010
    sounds good, but i have a modem and can only connect to it, if i connect my computer over ethernet with it. but my tc is in the cellar and most of my macs are in the first floor, so I can't connect them with the modem. And here is another thing, that I found out: if the internet crashes, my telephone (which is also connected to the modem) "crashes" as well. That means: Nobody can call me and I can't call anybody :confused:. So, bridge-mode is a good idea, but I couldn't access the internet because of the modem.
    Does that now mean, that I have to go any buy myself a router, than put my tc into bridge-mode and connect all my computers with the router? Because I can access the internet, but after a while it crashes. Example: All computers are CONNECTED with the internet. 2 of 3 are surfing the web. If I now want to play playstation 3 in the internet, than I can play about 10 minutes and after these 10 minutes I will not be able to access the internet with my ps3 and all the other computers will not be able to access the internet as well + nobody can reach me and I can't reach anybody because also my phone has crashed. So I will wait 10-15 minutes and my internet is back again, even if I didn't do anything :confused:.
  9. wandal macrumors newbie

    Feb 17, 2010
    It seems something related to your Internet Service Provider. Some of them, don't like you have more than 3 IP addresses.

    First of all, with three machines running, check out their IP address, and write it down. The optimal should be all "private" addresses in the same range, either 192.168.XXX.XXX or 10.0.XXX.XXX. It should be worse if you discover one or more "public" IP addresses, to say not in those ranges. The only "public" address should remain the router's "external" one. But is it a "modem" or a "router"? I guess it is a router. And I hope you can put your hands on it for tuning.
  10. RedTomato macrumors 68040


    Mar 4, 2005
    .. London ..
    Need more information.

    - Which country are you in?
    - Which company do you get internet service from?
    - Do you get your phone service from them too?
    - Are you the one who pays the internet / phone bills and sorts out the networking for the people in the house?

    - What is the specific make and model of your ADSL router?

    The last question will really help with advising you how to set it up.

    As mentioned above, both TC and your ADSL modem router are able to control a household network, and both come configured to assume they are in sole control. (blame Apple, as ADSL modem routers are not widely used in the USA)

    The problem, in simple words, comes from them fighting for control over the household network. You have to tell one of them to respect what the other one says. The decision here is which one to leave in control, and how to tell the other one to shut up.
  11. lukedieduke thread starter macrumors newbie

    Mar 5, 2010
    1. I live in Germany
    2. I get my internet service from "Kabel Deutschland" translated: "cable germany"
    3. Yes I get my phone service from them too.
    4. No, I am not the one who does all the networking. My father keeps all the bills but he is not the "best" when it comes to networking.
    5. my modem is made by a company called "thomson" but I don't know which model it is.
    Okay, well my fathers idea was it to connect the modem with the TC, so that the modem gives the signal to the TC and the TC makes the signal wireless, because on a modem you have to connect your computer over ethernet with it. But my father wanted, that the TC transfers the signal into a wireless signal, so that everybody in the whole house could connect to the TC without using ethernet. But there was 1 problem. The problem was: My father has a really good hi-fi system in the ground floor. So he thought, that he could copy his whole music from all of his CDs in the best quality to the TC, so that he could sell or through away all of his CDs. So he copied the CDs on the TC and got himself an airport express, which he connected to his hi-fi system. He now had the idea to stream the music from the TC onto his macbook and give the streaming signal to the airport express, so he could listen to his music on the hi-fi system (that was before he upgraded to snow leopard). The problem was, that the music would lag. It would play and stop then it would play again etc.. So, always if the wanted to listen to music he connected is macbook over ethernet with the TC, so that the signal would come without problems to his airport express. But after upgrading to snow leopard. He didn't have to connect himself over ethernet with the TC. Everything worked just fine. But to surf the internet faster he has asked the electrician to put a cable from the TC, which is in the cellar to the room, where the macbook is most, which is the 2nd floor. So the TC has to give out a wireless signal and a signal over ethernet.
    P.S.: I told my TC to use one public IP. (airport utilities, then double click on the TC, then internet and then there, where you can select: Bridge-mode.
  12. PinkyMacGodess macrumors 601


    Mar 7, 2007
    Midwest America.
    You are probably better off staying OUT of bridge mode on either the router or the time capsule.

    In most routers for DSL, flipping to bridge mode turns off any firewall functions. Turning the TC to bridging also, I believe, turns off NAT and DHCP. Not good advice.

    Using NAT on the router and the TC isn't recommended but you can do it. It just serves no function after the router on the inside. It is possible that the router is using PAT which uses different ports and the time capsule is tripping on the ports used. PAT uses a single address to support multiple clients and uses different ports to handle the differing client traffic.

    Wikipedia definition

    Knowing what router you have could be of use. It's basically in the configuration at this point and it can be a bugger getting the details worked out.

    You would be advised to use the create a new network on the time capsule and depending on what the dsl router is set for, and assuming that you connect everything to the time capsule, things should be easier to connect...

    My current config is the router does nothing. I have static addresses and have my firewall do all the NAT, DHCP and DNS.
  13. PinkyMacGodess macrumors 601


    Mar 7, 2007
    Midwest America.
    Why not rip all the cd's ontp the mackbook and use airtunes and the airport express to play the music? FOr me, I got a mac mini and have an iphone and use the remote application to control the itunes on the mini. It still occasionally drops out but it's not due to a network issue. I think I was using the mini when it was ripping the cd's. Turning on error correction in itunes on the mac should make for better music reproduction. Also: never throw or get rid of the cd's as you can never tell when you might need them again. I've had to rebuild my itunes library from scratch twice from all of my cd's and it takes DAYS to do it but as they say, **** doth happen...

    Thompson makes many modems and some have more 'features' then others. Some of their modems can't be changed and stay in NAT mode. I've even heard of some of them that only support one client computer. Your mileage may vary...
  14. lukedieduke thread starter macrumors newbie

    Mar 5, 2010
    so what shall i do now exactly?
    And, rip CDs on the macbook wouldn't be intelligent, because my father copys the CDs in wav format, and he has more than 1000 CDs so that takes up to much space on the macbook.
  15. satcomer macrumors 603


    Feb 19, 2008
    The Finger Lakes Region
    That is not networking. On the CD format for ripping does your father use the same Mac Book that you use? If he does you have to see what he uses those ripped music files for? Like an iPod or another MP3 player or for a stereo?

    If for a stereo then consider getting an external hard drive for his music. If your father is just using a MP3 or iPod music player, talk to him about changing into AAC or MP3 (letting iTunes do that for you). If for father is using the music for a home stereo definitely use an external drive to store the music.
  16. lukedieduke thread starter macrumors newbie

    Mar 5, 2010
    Okay guys,
    I'll explain this, so that everybody can understand! I have a iMac, my sister has a iMac as well and my father has a macbook. I have 2 ipod touches and a PS3 and my father rips his CDs and puts them onto the TC, because the TC has 1 TB of storage and could we now please come back to my internet problem and not talk about where and how my father has riped his CDs?
  17. thewaxtadpole macrumors newbie

    Aug 15, 2010
    Same Problem

    So.. I am having this exact same problem.

    I have an optimum online cable router -> 1TB Time Capsule with an ethernet connected PC and then multiple connected mac/apple devices.

    I randomly get yellow lighted with two errors:


    I have read that this MAY have had something to do with recent firmware updates, however I have only had this installed with most recent firmware. I AM USING THIS IN NEW YORK, UNITED STATES.

    Also want to note I purchased this as a refurbished product from Apple and started having the problem in under a month.
    Any ideas?

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