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No GPS in iPhone 3G (?)
- Thread starter Vasileios
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But then, when Steve is driven from Palo Alto to Cupertino - cell triangulation seems like a good solution.
Steve should try to find his way around Merced County on his own. He'll be lucky to find one tower close enough to make a call - let alone three towers to give him a position fix.
I'm surprised you think GPS isn't a vital part of what the iPhone does. Most popular apps on the store will be location-aware applications, such as they are on Installer. Apple recognise the importance of location awareness on a portable device, even going so far as to introduce a new framework for it (Core Location). In Apple terms, that's quite a fuss. If they go to that much bother, they think its crucial. I'm almost certain the next iphone will have GPS. Oh, and there's the fact that references to the NMEA protocol have been found in Beta firmwares (used for GPS), and the live location tracking added to maps, which makes little sense without GPS.
Apple dont do halves. If they focus on location awareness, they're going to add GPS. Proper GPS. They made mistakes with the current model, not even wanting native apps at first. Now they've realised the potential of the platform, I expect them to get the hardware right - 3G and real GPS - so they can let 3rd party developers add value to the platform, as is the usual model for Apple.
Note: Google Maps doesn't do any triangulation using cell towers. It simply gives the location of the tower you're using. And its estimated range circle.
When Jobs used "triangulation" in his speech, it was a mistake, probably because he was still excited from talking about the WiFi based locator.
Supposedly the WiFi locator does use more than one hotspot (if it can) to triangulate your position.
A-GPS by definition means there's a GPS receiver in the device.
The "A" (Assisted) means that it can get assistance from a cell tower. Usually this is a first estimate of where you are, along with visible satellite information.
The device then either does the rest of the calculations, or hands the GPS data back to the tower for a faster server to help it. In some cases, towers will use timing info to help triangulate the device.
But there's always a GPS chip.
Agreed that I don't see the big deal on GPS
If they have it, great
If not, so be it
There are a lot more things I want on the iPhone than the GPS
If they have it, great
If not, so be it
There are a lot more things I want on the iPhone than the GPS
Not having GPS is kinda like not haveing a toilet. Sure you don't NEED it, but it's nice to have.
Do you think that the Blackberry Bold might not have true GPS? On the product website, the company uses the term "GPS," but perhaps they're using it colloquially? Also note that the Bold appears to be as thin as the current iPhone.
Well I need GPS. If the iPhone doesn't come with it then I'm just going to have to get a cheap contract sim for my phone and a TomTom.
The current Locate feature is pretty terrible. I tried it at o2 which said I was in my town, but the reticule circled the whole town. I dread to think how bad it is in a rural environment.
The current Locate feature is pretty terrible. I tried it at o2 which said I was in my town, but the reticule circled the whole town. I dread to think how bad it is in a rural environment.
You are right on the money about the cell tower locator but are you absolutely sure about the hotspot locator triangulation? From everything I've read it merely indicates the position of the wifi access point that it's hearing if it happens to be in the Skyhook database. Nothing in the wikipedia entry indicates that there is any form of triangulation of access point MACs involved.
Back when Maps with the locator integration was released there were a lot of people defending it for its 'accuracy.' Nobody seems to do that any more. From the first day I've been very vocal about its horrible accuracy and usability. Even Google's information page says average accuracy is 3300 feet. You certainly can't rely on it in any real-world fashion. I only ever use it to determine a general area that I'm in especially when I've found the accuracy to be as much as more than 2 miles off. I've even had situations where access points apparently moved that were in the database and it put me many states away from the real location.
I'm just trying to give Skyhook the benefit of the doubt, until we know more details as with the Google info. That's why I used "supposedly". Skyhook says this on their website:
"The WPS location client identifies all of these existing Wi-Fi signals and calculates your current location using groundbreaking positioning algorithms developed by Skyhook Wireless. "
As you know, often such marketing-speak really means: our groundbreaking algorithm is that we give you the location of the hotspot with the best signal
You're right, I'd guess that the 'groundbreaking' method is Point A is Stronger than Point B and C so we'll use Point A's location. We're talking access points heard from a likely moving vehicle. Any heard point isn't going to last long. Their plotting of points are reasonably accurate (probably utilizing something like Netstumbler with GPS plotting) and I think that's a close as the wifi accuracy will ever be. After all, they're merely capturing locations and the iPhone is merely hearing locations. There isn't a whole lot of high-level accuracy going on there.
Edited to add: I see Skyhook is now allowing individuals to add access point locations. By default it's using a Google Maps address lookup and then linking a MAC address to it. There is also a map marker option available. Google is using Navteq (Navigon) maps. That's the same map set that Garmin uses for their products. My own street address is incorrectly plotted in Navteq's database and is about 1000 feet from the actual location. Situations such as that could make points very innacurate. Every address on my street from a certain point have that 1000 ft error because Navteq has incorrect information about where the street numbering convention changes. It actually has two addresses overlayed across the same range of addresses for that first thousand feet. That'll cause some problems with accuracy as well.
Edited to add: I see Skyhook is now allowing individuals to add access point locations. By default it's using a Google Maps address lookup and then linking a MAC address to it. There is also a map marker option available. Google is using Navteq (Navigon) maps. That's the same map set that Garmin uses for their products. My own street address is incorrectly plotted in Navteq's database and is about 1000 feet from the actual location. Situations such as that could make points very innacurate. Every address on my street from a certain point have that 1000 ft error because Navteq has incorrect information about where the street numbering convention changes. It actually has two addresses overlayed across the same range of addresses for that first thousand feet. That'll cause some problems with accuracy as well.
I don't either. I intend to purchase a Tom Tom 720 as I would prefer a dedicated unit for GPS. I also don't consider GPS a fair trade off for a thicker phone either, so I hope that GPS is left out and that this rumor is true
Jude
I don't either. I intend to purchase a Tom Tom 720 as I would prefer a dedicated unit for GPS. I also don't consider GPS a fair trade off for a thicker phone either, so I hope that GPS is left out and that this rumor is true
Jude
Well, I won't speak for everyone else, but I'll take a slightly thicker iPhone if it means not having to shell out another $300 for a separate, even larger device. I mean, why would we want internet on the iPhone if we could just buy a UMPC? Lord knows the hardware probably just makes the device bigger.
Yes, they've been required for quite a few years now for the sake of Police and Fire departments. You call 911, they know exactly where you are. And not by cell tower.
Why does everyone ignore this?
Hey Gloss, to each, her own.
I have to say that I have never used a GPS phone, but it seems that the positioning would be a problem, especially if one is almost always alone in the car (not to mention scratching the phone as I may choose to go naked
). I have to be able to mount the unit on my dashboard, for safety and ease of use, so the TT is a logical choice, for me. Plus, my friends with GPS on their phones tell me that the battery drain is extensive, so for those reasons, I will take my chances on a stand-alone unit.I will purchase the 3G iPhone in June, hopefully; GPS is just not a consider in that decision.
Jude
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I think you may be ignoring the inevitable car mounting suction cup for iPhone with built-in dock charger, which would handily turn the phone into a (somewhat small) dashboard GPS unit. Especially cool would be if it issued directions through an attached Bluetooth headset.
Pie in the sky, of course, but highly likely if GPS features are, indeed, included.
But yes, everyone has their own requirements in a phone. It's kind of moot to debate the point.
Hey Gloss, to each, her own.
I have to say that I have never used a GPS phone, but it seems that the positioning would be a problem, especially if one is almost always alone in the car (not to mention scratching the phone as I may choose to go naked
I will purchase the 3G iPhone in June, hopefully; GPS is just not a consider in that decision.
Jude
I think you may be ignoring the inevitable car mounting suction cup for iPhone with built-in dock charger, which would handily turn the phone into a (somewhat small) dashboard GPS unit. Especially cool would be if it issued directions through an attached Bluetooth headset.
Pie in the sky, of course, but highly likely if GPS features are, indeed, included.
But yes, everyone has their own requirements in a phone. It's kind of moot to debate the point.
A GPS module in the 3G phone would make or break my deal. I cannot stand trying to navigate foreign areas while driving. Mapquest helps, but its not full proof. If you make a mistake it can be difficult to re-route yourself. Personally a GPS module will be the deciding factor on my 3G purchase...
